Archived: Insiders Thread

[WriteSimply]

Originally Posted by Hanzaki

You mean the NEW players which will be released AFTER end of October wont be 1.0? The old ones will be still 1.0 (or hopefully upgradeable to 1.1).

To clarify further, yes, starting November, no NEW models can be Profile 1.0. Very few current players can be upgraded to Profile 1.1 players, if at all.

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

XBox was a PC kludge. 360 is an original design, ground up.

Really? I'm surprised as heck.

kjack, do you want to comment on the Sony BD tower? Will that player or any other player including the Pioneer come closer to MC/MMC?


fuad

[Fozziwig]

Originally Posted by WriteSimply

To clarify further, yes, starting November, no NEW models can be Profile 1.0. Very few current players can be upgraded to Profile 1.1 players, if at all.

Are any insiders aware of any Blu-ray player (s) that will launch in November/December (thus requiring profile 1.1 at least) apart from the Denon model?

[lymzy]

Originally Posted by kjack

SoC is no more expensive, and for some SoC suppliers, are actually lower cost due to much higher volumes and cost reduction efforts. Some players will have slight additional cost for the local storage, while others will use external local storage to keep player cost minimal.

I think this is one of the key bluray advantage. Blu-ray has a large industry infrastructure which could bring down cost more quickly while offer more choice for consumer. How could HD DVD battle this? Toshiba couldn't afford bleeding all the time, could they?

A question though, could bluray manufacture revamp existing DVD player lines to do bluray players?

[Frode]

Could I ask for a clarfication on the 1.1 "launch" requirement? Does it mean announced (like CEDIA/IFA), or does it mean when the players are first available for consumers to purchase in stores? If it's the latter then there's a smaller than 2 month window all these new players have to fit in. Do insiders think all the manufacturers will be able to make this deadline in time? Could we in theory see a player model having to be "scrapped" because it got shipped to stores too late?

[Frode]

Originally Posted by lymzy

A question though, could bluray manufacture revamp existing DVD player lines to do bluray players?

I think you'll need to clarify this one a bit. When making electronics you're using the same equipment whether you're making the circuit board for controller logic in a car or the insides of a DVD player, at least in principle. Is that really what you mean? Or do you mean modifying existing DVD player designs in order to make a new player that can play back BDs?

[Iceman_II]

Originally Posted by lymzy

I think this is one of the key bluray advantage. Blu-ray has a large industry infrastructure which could bring down cost more quickly while offer more choice for consumer. How could HD DVD battle this? Toshiba couldn't afford bleeding all the time, could they?

A question though, could bluray manufacture revamp existing DVD player lines to do bluray players?

WOO WHOO!

I finally get to answer a question in the insider thread!!!

As an engineer who formerly worked on the manufacturing side of Motorola (a small CE company, you may have heard of them) I would say that changing from DVD to BD should not cause too much heartburn. The difficulties will be for the companies making the outsourced component parts (lenses and such). The change for the Final Assembly plants should be not much more than the tooling change from one model to the next. Granted, there MAY be issues where the existing assembly robots on their lines may not be able to assemble things "accurately" enough, and they may need more tightly toleranced robots, but I kind of doubt it.

[Razter]

Originally Posted by Talkstr8t

Absolutely not. Just as BD specs exceed HD DVD specs in virtually every category, the collective BDA vision is being able to offer compelling interactivity well beyond what's being offered today. This is one of the reasons BD-J is important; it's far more open-ended in terms of future capabilities. Don't believe the claims in AVS that "BD customers don't care about interactivity"; some users do, and some don't, but the format is certainly designed to exceed expectations in this area.

The issue was whether to delay Blu-ray launch until 1.1/2.0 were fully-implementable (and there was a silicon dependency here), or release with a grace period profile and transition to full 1.1/2.0 support. While the second option is certainly not ideal (especially for those buyers who care about secondary audio/video), the net impact will be relatively small, especially if the PS3 receives a firmware update to full 1.1/2.0 compatibility. I think it's clear that had Blu-ray delayed launch for a year or more it never would have had a chance to catch up to that sort of availability head start from HD DVD.

There have been previous claims that the reason for BD's delayed PiP was that HD PiP would be mandatory. Now we know this isn't true, what is/was the problem? Why could HD DVD have PiP from the start and not BD when requirements were the same?

[scott1256ca]

That SD PiP being available in BD almost seems like a loophole. Do any of the insiders know if there are any plans by the BDA to close it, and make HD PiP mandatory?

It would be a shame to have the manufacturers who do profile 1.1 all start with HD PiP, only to have some cheap player come along several months later with SD PiP only and make people who buy it feel cheated.

[mattym]

question for paid

in respect of paramounts engineers working on a bd version of films, what happens to those encodes? stored for future use or junked?

[kjack]

Originally Posted by WriteSimply

This is why HD-DVD was out of the gate earlier: because they built it around an Intel PC processor, making the units PC-lite player - just like the X-Box/360.

It also meant that the software didn't have to be optimized initially as there was plenty of CPU power and memory.

Keith, how fast can a BD player go from conceptualizing to putting the components together? I understand how the SoC solution makes it a simpler process. So how long really?

Our target is less than 90 days from start of design to production ready. Could be done is less than a week, except getting all the licenses takes some time.

And if your reference design/SoC solution doesn't exist, how much longer would it have taken?

Probably 6-9 months and having to work with multiple vendors.

[gandley]

Originally Posted by Razter

There have been previous claims that the reason for BD's delayed PiP was that HD PiP would be mandatory. Now we know this isn't true, what is/was the problem? Why could HD DVD have PiP from the start and not BD when requirements were the same?

because the BDA waitied for SOC based silicon. Toshiba based on intel P4 in a box solution so they did not have to wait for silicon to catch up, this is why frankly the first HD DVD players are junk. the BDA could of done th same, but i guess it just would not of worked for them.

(they should of just reboxed the PS3 in a stanalone case)

[lch]

Originally Posted by Hanzaki

Is it important to have Profile 1.1 players? Why BDA just cancel the 1.1 and go straight to the Profile 2.0. This two HDM standards (blu-ray and hd-dvd) have already confused and scared away lots of people. If there will be 3 other standards (profile 1.0, 1.1, 2.0) inside the Blu-ray standard there will be even more confusing situation.

I'm pretty sure Sony won't cancel their Profile 1.0 players after the release of the new 2.0 version. So there wil be 3 type of Sony players in the shop. Don't you fear that the people will be even more confused and give up all the hdm eventually?

What is the plan to avoid this situation? At least I hope there is some plan...

it's the same as dvd player. there are also many profiles.
you can notice where some of the disc have disclaimers saying "some features may not work on some player ..."

[hollywoodguy]

Keith,

can you make an educated guess whether any standalone BD players are at all subsidized?

How about HD DVD? Obviously many assume Toshiba subsidizes its players. Do you think that is the case for all models, some, or not at all? What about the 360 add-on?

Can the Venturer player possibly turn a profit and, if so, will we soon see Blu-ray players at the same price point (whatever that may be)?

Thanks for your continued contribution to this forum, much appreciated. Your perspective on all this is unique.

[ReduxInflux]

FINANCIALLYCOMPENSATEDNERD (paidgeek) or INKDISPENSINGWRITINGUTENCIL2000POUNDHOMOSAPIEN (pentonman):

has the strategy of releasing fresh out of the theater movies on BD a week or two before the DVD streets in an attempt to generate interest in the hi def format been discussed at all? at sony or elsewhere?

i.e. the SuperBad BD (assuming it will happen) is released to retailers for sale
1 - 2 weeks before its DVD release? i'm sure it would raise eyebrows and people would be provoked into inquiring about Blu-Ray...

thanks

Brian

[Zaphod]

What I don't get is this. Now we all know that all players that are 1.1 compliant are coming to market probably sometime in early 2008 at the earliest. Also CE manufacturers are announcing all of their new models that are available this fall before October so they don't have to meet the 1.1 profile.

Now correct me if I am wrong but the final 1.1 profile has already been established and needs no ratification, correct? If this is the case, then why are the likes of WB delaying their releases on the fact that no players are 1.1 compliant. The standard is complete so why not just add them to the discs and when the players become available they will already be on the disc. I don't get it...why wait when you can add it now and start releasing more of your catalog?

The majority of Blu-ray buyers do not care about these extras anyways and would rather have the titles.

[ryoohki]

Originally Posted by Zaphod

What I don't get is this. Now we all know that all players that are 1.1 compliant are coming to market probably sometime in early 2008 at the earliest. Also CE manufacturers are announcing all of their new models that are available this fall before October so they don't have to meet the 1.1 profile.

Now correct me if I am wrong but the final 1.1 profile has already been established and needs no ratification, correct? If this is the case, then why are the likes of WB delaying their releases on the fact that no players are 1.1 compliant. The standard is complete so why not just add them to the discs and when the players become available they will already be on the disc. I don't get it...why wait when you can add it now and start releasing more of your catalog?

The majority of Blu-ray buyers do not care about these extras anyways and would rather have the titles.

BD-J need a lot of testing on a lot of plaform. HD DVD have the luxury to have only Toshiba making design board and FW base (except the 36) so it's way less of a problem for Toshiba.

Once they get, if ever they get, complete solution for another manifacturer that is not them, you'll see compatibility problems popping up.. thrust me..

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by mattym

question for paid

in respect of paramounts engineers working on a bd version of films, what happens to those encodes? stored for future use or junked?

The work should be backed up. If Paramount decides to use it in the future for Blu-ray, it will be available.

[hollywoodguy]

To all insiders:

This is from Bill Hunt's "My Two Cents": "Both the Blu-ray and HD-DVD camps are working overtime, determined to kick this format war into high gear for the holidays. And having spent the morning catching up with phone calls and talking to our industry sources... if you guys even knew HALF of what was going on behind the scenes this week, you'd be picking your jaws up off the floor. You'd better believe it when we say that the visible public and media relations portion of this format skirmish is only a small part of the full story. It's getting ugly out there, folks."

Any hints what specifically he might be referring to? CEDIA has seemed fairly quiet so far...

[Hussla]

Question to any of the insiders regarding Region Coding!

Why did BD go with Region coding and HD-DVD didn't?

I doesn't make sense to me why ANY studio would support HD-DVD when they cant control what people in certain regions can watch, especially if the movie is still playing in the theatre and alread out on HD-DVD in the states.

What's especially strange is those same studios who are releasing to HD-DVD are releasing their DVD's with specific region coding, very wierd!

Anyone want to shed some light on this?

[LeoneFan]

This is for the insiders. Why is the BDA not advertising Blu-ray as a technology and I don't mean the little promo at the end of release commercial saying "also available on Blu-ray"? I mean a real commercial like HDDVD has with that Sopranos guy. This is becoming a disturbing trend. You would think with FOX and ABC being Blu that they would be running ads left and right. This is very disturbing because the only way to get to the average consumer is to advertise the technology as a whole. Please, can any of you insiders tell me that there are planned Blu-ray commercials for the Fall?