Archived: Insiders Thread

[scott1256ca]

Hopefully one of the insiders can chime in to clear up any errors, but my understanding is that the hack for both BD and HD DVD (AnyDVD notwithstanding) using WinDVD or PowerDVD reads the keys from memory while they are there decrypted. The reason I exempt AnyDVD is I think they have claimed to do it differently, but I have no idea how.

Anyway, I think WinDVD now requires Vista, which is supposed to have some method of not allowing external programs to inspect "protected memory" (my term, don't know the official one), therefore the hack can be thwarted on Vista, at least for now.

PowerDVD still runs on XP and may still be open to this hack, but they are supposed to have released new software to help protect against it. So the old PowerDVD would not have the correct player keys for new titles and would not work.

So AACS would have to release new keys, voiding the old software which allowed the hack, and the people hacking would have to start over.

Now, I thought that was supposed to happen with the last key change but it obviously didn't slow anyone down.

I'm not sure if there is more to the xbox add on to allow the hackers to operate, but I don't think AACS should have to revoke keys for the drive. AACS would have to issue new keys and leave PowerDVD and WinDVD on the outside, so they would never be able to play anything new in order to bypass them. The drive would continue to work with the xbox.

How well protected the new software is, I can't say. They could just force users to upgrade to Vista and not allow even newer versions of the software to run on XP. That might not go over too well.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

They'll just get the new keys eventually

While computer playback may be a business necessity, it's what's going to keep cracking protection systmes

As I understand it, the hackers have discovered a weakness in the add-on's interface security. They've updated the firmware to retrieve information from the drive itself, bypassing anything the OS or the player software can do to protect the stream.

So, the drives will always be out there that can hack AACS. They won't be able to be used to playback the media directly, but for the hacker that really doesn't matter since they are out to get rid of the encryption entirely.

Now, BD+ can still be applied such that until they hack that, on a title by title basis, the stream will remain corrupted.

Gary

[Jack Torrance]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

I have heard rumors that this is being considered. We will give it the greatest care if we work on it.

Thanks Paid! Will keep my fingers crossed

[frank_t]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

I have heard rumors that this is being considered. We will give it the greatest care if we work on it.

paid,

pink floyd the wall i would purchase in a second!!! an excellent movie!

in fact, i think i'll pop in the 'ol dvd now

(say, you guys don't own spinal tap do you????)

[Rob Tomlin]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

I have heard rumors that this is being considered. We will give it the greatest care if we work on it.

Now that would be really cool! Pink Floyds The Wall was one of my most watched DVD's!

[richteer]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

Region coding is not to stop people in the US. It's to stop people from importing US discs.

I respectfully disagree: region encoding is to stop imports in both directions. I'm originally from the UK (I now live in Canada), and there are TV series that I'd like to buy on DVD that aren't available in Region 1 (just Region 2).

My only alternative was to buy the disks from the UK and pick up a cheap DVD player here on which I could defeat the Region setting. (I could've also imported a DVD player from the UK, I suppose!)

Anyways, my point is, for old titles like the ones I bought, Region encoding is nothing more than a hinderence to legitimate buyers. I'm just glad the BDA was able to come up with a sensibe compromise for Blu-ray discs...

[WickyWoo]

I respectfully disagree: region encoding is to stop imports in both directions. I'm originally from the UK (I now live in Canada), and there are TV series that I'd like to buy on DVD that aren't available in Region 1 (just Region 2).

None of those UK companies were in on the creation of DVD though. The intention of it is and always have been the protection of major studio films from getting their theatrical windows compromised

[reiella]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

None of those UK companies were in on the creation of DVD though. The intention of it is and always have been the protection of major studio films from getting their theatrical windows compromised

Not sure the theatrical windows either though. With the dvd period for instance, anime television series and oavs were a big thing, it helped to allow the studios to sell the distribution rights of their titles directly, instead of simply the companies being an import agent.

[WickyWoo]

Not sure the theatrical windows either though. With the dvd period for instance, anime television series and oavs were a big thing, it helped to allow the studios to sell the distribution rights of their titles directly, instead of simply the companies being an import agent.

OAVs wre on the way out before DVD even came around. I don't know what you're trying to say. The companies in Japan always sold their stuff directly, and if anything, used region codes to prevent reverse importation of cheaper versions from over here.

The Japanese companies knew that Akihabara is full of region 1 DVDs, so that's why they maintained release windows for foreign versions. They knew they were completely ineffective.

[reiella]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

OAVs wre on the way out before DVD even came around. I don't know what you're trying to say. The companies in Japan always sold their stuff directly, and if anything, used region codes to prevent reverse importation of cheaper versions from over here.

The Japanese companies knew that Akihabara is full of region 1 DVDs, so that's why they maintained release windows for foreign versions. They knew they were completely ineffective.

A bit more insight than I had before.

Well, it was more a point to be made about the past. And that's a fairly good point I hadn't hit on so much in the current. My point, more so with OAVs and TV series was that original rights holders have interest in producting the ability and viability of those titles to be sold in other markets. Even if they currently are not being pursued or entertained.

Mostly, it came to mind when I started looking at Pioneer/Geneon when I first was getting into dvds.

[Azumi]

hello Insiders,

According to the japanese media, Sony is selling its Cell participation to Toshiba.

Since the deal seems a bargain, do we have to expect that Toshiba agreed to anything more *beyond* the financial terms that were reported in the press?

Have the appropriate safeguards been put in place to guarantee that Sony will keep receiving a steady and preferential flow of supplies of Cell chips?

Can we also expect any other AV CE hardware, besides the PS3, to integrate Cell chips in the next 12-to-18 months?

[lch]

http://www.reuters.com/article/techn...10757920070915

TOKYO (Reuters) - Japan's Sony Corp (6758.T: Quote, Profile, Research) is in talks to sell its production facilities for advanced microchips used in its PlayStation 3 game console to Toshiba Corp (6502.T: Quote, Profile, Research), sources close to the matter said.

The sale, which would include production lines for the "Cell" microchips, dubbed "supercomputer on a chip", is part of Sony's strategy to shed costly semiconductor assets and focus on the production of strategic products such as image sensor chips used in digital cameras and camcorders, they said.

The business daily Nikkei said on Saturday Sony planned to sell production facilities for cutting-edge microprocessors and graphic chips to Toshiba for about 100 billion yen ($869.7 million) and an agreement is likely within a few months.

Both Sony and Toshiba declined to comment on the report.

To secure a stable supply of chips for its game machines after the possible sale, Sony is considering to set up a joint venture with Toshiba to take over actual production activities at the manufacturing facilities, the sources said.

Sony, which is in the final year of its three-year turnaround plan under Chief Executive Howard Stringer, said in February it will cut back on future chip spending and may not produce next-generation microchips using 45-nanometre circuitry in-house.

[Azumi]

Another question in the same subject:

Were Paramount/Dreamworks foretold of the imminence of the Cell deal *before* they agreed to the HD DVD exclusivity?

[Azumi]

Originally Posted by lch

http://www.reuters.com/article/techn...10757920070915

Yes, of course. But according to this WSJ story, Sony invested 200 billion yens in Cell, and now they're selling it to Toshiba for 100 billion.

So, where did the other 100 billions go?

Is there another reason why Sony is selling so low? That's why I'm asking if Toshiba agreed to anything else besides the money.

[bootman]

Originally Posted by Azumi

Yes, of course. But according to this WSJ story, Sony invested 200 billion yens in Cell, and now they're selling it to Toshiba for 100 billion.

So, where did the other 100 billions go?

Is there another reason why Sony is selling so low? That's why I'm asking if Toshiba agreed to anything else besides the money.

Maybe the right to use the cell in their products?
That would be worth big $$$

[A O Malley]

Originally Posted by Maxpower1987

New AACS keys would be pointless at this time, the old Xbox add-on hack still works. The new keys will still get released just like the old ones did.

Why don't they release different keys for Blu-ray than HD DVD then when the HD DVD keys get out the Blu-ray one are still safe.

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by BTBuck1

Paid,

How is it decided which codec will be used?

We test about 20 minutes of the master with all the codecs and decide based on those results.

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by Josh

Paidgeek,

While watching 'A Few Good Men' last week, I noticed that the film had some horizontal shaking. Is this from the film or a result of the mastering process?

BTW, it looks absolutely stunning.

Can you give me the scene or time info? I'll check into it.

[Deciazulado]

I think I also saw some jittery projector weave on a scene of Wild Things

[WickyWoo]

Why don't they release different keys for Blu-ray than HD DVD then when the HD DVD keys get out the Blu-ray one are still safe.

Because AACS is a unified system. It's all based on the same algorithmns.

How is it decided which codec will be used?

We test about 20 minutes of the master with all the codecs and decide based on those results.

To expand on that, based on what I've been told and feel free to correct me, it's based a lot on how big a disc you're doing and how many extras you need to stuff on there, as well as the content of the film

So a high-action piece with extras is going to want AVC because you can do it in less space, or a movie that needs to fit on a BD25 for whatever reason.

But a slower drama piece, or a shorter action movie may work just fine in MPEG-2 on a BD-25, simply because compression is based on change over time. How long does pixel 427,324 stay red for?
To cut it down to a base concept: compression works like this

RAW FOOTAGE

RED
RED
RED
RED
RED
RED

Compression:

RED for 6 frames

With a high action title, obviously you're going to be having far more change, so far more instructions needed=less compression. MPEG-4 stores those instructions more efficiently than MPEG-2, and therefore enables good quality footage with much less disc space and bandwidth.

The big factor is time. MPEG-4 takes far longer to encode than MPEG-2 (I believe, but not 100% positive that they can do MPEG-2 in real time, at least they could for DVD), so you save a lot of time and money going MPEG-2

Again, that's an extreme simplification.