Archived: Insiders Thread

[patrick99]

Originally Posted by radagast

"With Blu-Rays major technical advantage of considerably higher bit-rates over HD-DVD, is there a movie release yet that visibly demonstrates the superiority? Im really curious, because if so it might just shut the HD fanbots up for a second "




I don't think that will do what he is asking. I think he is asking for a movie that is on both formats. So it would have to be WB or a Paramount movie before Paramount joined the dark side. Prestige might work.

Is it possible that Nature's Journey from RB Films might do this?

[Dave Mack]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

I think the rating from Peter is too harsh, but the master is soft. It was newly transferred, but the film elements are not at the same level as some of our other catalog titles.

Is it possible to get a bit more info...? Members at AVS and Hdd forums are cancelling this title in droves based off just ONE negative review. Even people who consider this a fave title.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=909863

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showthread.php?t=18838

Then of course there are BD bashers in there as well gloating.

The DTS track on the previous SB disc was wonderful yet the BD gets knocked hard too in Bracke's review. Something is amiss.

[Hussla]

Originally Posted by radagast

"With Blu-Rays major technical advantage of considerably higher bit-rates over HD-DVD, is there a movie release yet that visibly demonstrates the superiority? Im really curious, because if so it might just shut the HD fanbots up for a second "




I don't think that will do what he is asking. I think he is asking for a movie that is on both formats. So it would have to be WB or a Paramount movie before Paramount joined the dark side. Prestige might work.

Yep thats it, I was more or less interested in side by side comparisons of HD-DVD & BD titles. Already got Pirates & Casino Royale I know how good they look

[Esox50]

Originally Posted by Dave Mack

Is it possible to get a bit more info...? Members at AVS and Hdd forums are cancelling this title in droves based off just ONE negative review. Even people who consider this a fave title.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=909863

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showthread.php?t=18838

Then of course there are BD bashers in there as well gloating.

The DTS track on the previous SB disc was wonderful yet the BD gets knocked hard too in Bracke's review. Something is amiss.

paidgeek,

Does SPHE have any sort of rule on "early reviews" for the screeners you guys send out? Are these reviews in violation of this?

I just cannot believe people are over-reacting and cancelling orders because of one review. As you noted a while ago, the master was a bit soft. If you guys did a re-transfer of the film elements, then that's all we can ask for. It must be disappointing to do all of this hard work and then have "the sky is falling" panic because a few people either have an agenda or don't understand the condition of the actual film itself.

Rest assured, my order of this film stands. I appreciate all of the hard work on this title from SPHE and AZ. One review does not change my opinion that this will be a great release in the sense of "the best that it can be".

Regards,
Esox

[WickyWoo]

I think the fundamental issue is that people don't understand the dynamics of dramatic film production, and many simply don't WANT to understand, and want everything to look like Planet Earth

[Dave Mack]

exactly.
Some think that everything should look like CRANK. Sharpened and digital looking to the max. I think when Bracke said this is a "good film like presentation" with no EE or compression artifacts that people should rejoice. He also said the colors looked very good and vivid. Why grain, softness and lack of full details in the shadows should knock the PQ rating down SO much, to where it now resides in the bottom 12 BD's reviewed there is puzzling.
I saw Dracula in the theaters a few times, once kinda recently at a MOMOA revival. The film has NEVER looked supersharp, always had grain and was done using many optical FX oldschool style in the pre CGI intermediary days. That's how the film looked then. Should they have DVNR'd all the grain away and enhanced the sharpness? Hell no.

eesh. Wait until Saving Private Ryan comes out!

[Spankey]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

I think the fundamental issue is that people don't understand the dynamics of dramatic film production, and many simply don't WANT to understand, and want everything to look like Planet Earth

Funny..here is how DVDFile (Not Bracke) reviewed the DVD back in the day.

Video: How Does The Disc Look?

As you would expect in a Columbia/Tristar Superbit release, the film's original theatrical aspect ratio of 1.85:1 is shown in anamorphic video. Of all the Superbit releases I've seen to date, this one clearly sports the best looking transfer. Sony's characteristic halos are still present, but this dark film rarely has any scenes in which they become visible. What remains is a wonderfully detailed presentation. Images are exceptionally sharp, easily reproducing fabric textures and the subtleties of a head of hair. Color reproduction is excellent. Skin tones are very natural and primary colors like the red in the Count's flowing robe are vivid and noise free. Blacks are deep and unencumbered. Contrast and brightness are beyond criticism, with outstanding shadow detail so critical to reproducing the many night scenes. I did not notice any compression artifacts. Viewers will note that, like other Superbit DVDs, some film grain is visible; but this is simply an indication of the apparent resolution of the disc. This is one fine looking DVD.

Audio: How Does the Disc Sound?

Both Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS are available on the disc. Both are first-rate. The surround effects envelop the viewer, a very aggressive mix. This is not an official EX mix, yet 6.1 decoding enhances the experience. I heard only one inappropriate sound placement: when the Count's carriage initially picks up Harker, too much of the sounds from the hoofs and carriage were mixed into the surrounds - the carriage is directly in front of us. Deep bass will challenge your subwoofer; I suspect that the sound designer used the .1 channel to exaggerate our sense of dread. Wojciech Kilar's atmospheric score is presented with authority and fidelity. The dialog remains exceptionally clear throughout.

Video 5 Audio 4.5

[Dave Mack]

yep. It is possible that Bracke just really didn't like the actual 'look" of the film, but that's no reason to critisize the transfer itself technically.
I LOVE the way the film looks. Hell, I think my SB still looks great. Even projected at 92". If the Bd is better, I will be more than happy.

[kaliraver]

Paidgeek yiou might've skipped this question but i'll ask it again. Do you know if SPHE is working on the Desperado series (especially Once upon a time in Mexico)?

[JBlacklow]

Originally Posted by kaliraver69

Paidgeek yiou might've skipped this question but i'll ask it again. Do you know if SPHE is working on the Desperado series (especially Once upon a time in Mexico)?

It's been stated several times in this thread that paidgeek is no longer addressing any questions about titles unless they have been officially announced or released by SPHE.

[Azumi]

Originally Posted by Esox50

paidgeek,

Does SPHE have any sort of rule on "early reviews" for the screeners you guys send out? Are these reviews in violation of this?

I just cannot believe people are over-reacting and cancelling orders because of one review. As you noted a while ago, the master was a bit soft. If you guys did a re-transfer of the film elements, then that's all we can ask for. It must be disappointing to do all of this hard work and then have "the sky is falling" panic because a few people either have an agenda or don't understand the condition of the actual film itself.

Rest assured, my order of this film stands. I appreciate all of the hard work on this title from SPHE and AZ. One review does not change my opinion that this will be a great release in the sense of "the best that it can be".

Regards,
Esox

I'm not an insider, and I'm sorry to intervene in this thread, but I feel compelled to say that it would be a ghastly idea to pressure or doctor the medias on the basis of one bad review. It would open the Pandora's box, and it would be disastrous, both for the Studios and for all the reviewers.

If the studios feel that the reviews are too harsh, they can always talk to the reviewer and explain the technical hurdles and the complexities of the process. Sometimes people mistake the creative decisions of a director for technical flaws.

Let's not forget that Dracula was probably one of the last films of our times that made a gigantic use of optical - and analog - effects. Seeing Dracula in theaters was a visual enchantment, and just because everybody is now keen of edge enhancement doesn't mean that older films were meant that way.

As for people canceling their orders on the basis of one review alone, it's their call but it's definitely premature.

[Esox50]

Originally Posted by Azumi

I'm not an insider, and I'm sorry to intervene in this thread, but I feel compelled to say that it would be a ghastly idea to pressure or doctor the medias on the basis of one bad review. It would open the Pandora's box, and it would be disastrous, both for the Studios and for all the reviewers.

I meant it more in the sense of having an "embargo" on online reviews until the release date (or a few days before). Obviously, nobody's opinion should be censored.

[MozartMan]

Can anybody comment on this Shane C. Buettner dude and his article?

Blu-ray Disc Interactivity and You:

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/features/907bdint/

[lch]

Originally Posted by Dave Mack

Is it possible to get a bit more info...? Members at AVS and Hdd forums are cancelling this title in droves based off just ONE negative review. Even people who consider this a fave title.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=909863

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showthread.php?t=18838

Then of course there are BD bashers in there as well gloating.

The DTS track on the previous SB disc was wonderful yet the BD gets knocked hard too in Bracke's review. Something is amiss.

how do you know they are not hd in disguise ?
and if they think the movie is soft and grainy, then everyone in avs should cancel hd-dvd titles.

[coolmilo]

Originally Posted by Dave Mack

yep. It is possible that Bracke just really didn't like the actual 'look" of the film, but that's no reason to critisize the transfer itself technically.
I LOVE the way the film looks. Hell, I think my SB still looks great. Even projected at 92". If the Bd is better, I will be more than happy.

Originally Posted by lch

how do you know they are not hd in disguise ?
and if they think the movie is soft and grainy, then everyone in avs should cancel hd-dvd titles.

This is probably not the best place to discuss this but I cancelled my pre-order after reading the review. I may still buy it but I plan to purchase at least 20 Blu-ray movies over the next few months and for now I am focused on top notch PQ/SQ. We'll see what happens.

[Esox50]

Originally Posted by coolmilo

This is probably not the best place to discuss this but I cancelled my pre-order after reading the review. I may still buy it but I plan to purchase at least 20 Blu-ray movies over the next few months and for now I am focused on top notch PQ/SQ. We'll see what happens.

Sorry, but this makes no sense to me. You should buy movies you like, not buy something that looks "top notch". If you truly like this movie and the transfer is the best that it can be given the film elements, then that is all you can ask for.

[Dave Mack]

Well said. That's why I buy discs, SD and HD, because of the films themselves. If it's the best the film can look, that's all I can ask for.

[hollywoodguy]

Originally Posted by Esox50

Sorry, but this makes no sense to me. You should buy movies you like, not buy something that looks "top notch". If you truly like this movie and the transfer is the best that it can be given the film elements, then that is all you can ask for.

Sorry for clogging up the Insider's thread, but I STRONGLY second that. Not only is it "all you can ask for," it is, excuse the shouting, ALL YOU WILL EVER GET from certain films. They just will not get any sharper or less grainy, not that it would matter to anyone who really loves them. Unless you reshoot or seriously mess with the source, of course, but who wants that? Some of the criticism directed at "transfers," "PQ," etc. just boggles the mind.

Sometimes I wonder if there are two groups at AVS (and here, for that matter), those who love movies and those who love shiny things. If you'd rather watch Crank than The Godfather because it's "razor-sharp," has the "window-effect," is a "Tier 1 transfer" or some such BS, I fear I'd have a hard time talking to you for more than 60 seconds. If you think Crank is a better movie, well, I might disagree, but we'd sure have a hell of a lot to argue about!

[coolmilo]

Originally Posted by Esox50

Sorry, but this makes no sense to me. You should buy movies you like, not buy something that looks "top notch". If you truly like this movie and the transfer is the best that it can be given the film elements, then that is all you can ask for.

To be honest I am not crazy about that particular movie. I was just buying it for the sake of the stupid format war and to reward Sony for the excellent work they put into each title. However, I got cold feet after reading the review. But In general and especially with these older movies I agree with you and I would buy it regardless of the review. I may order it again on Oct 16 when DUD releases Transformers.

[coolmilo]

Originally Posted by hollywoodguy

Sorry for clogging up the Insider's thread, but I STRONGLY second that. Not only is it "all you can ask for," it is, excuse the shouting, ALL YOU WILL EVER GET from certain films. They just will not get any sharper or less grainy, not that it would matter to anyone who really loves them. Unless you reshoot or seriously mess with the source, of course, but who wants that? Some of the criticism directed at "transfers," "PQ," etc. just boggles the mind.

Sometimes I wonder if there are two groups at AVS (and here, for that matter), those who love movies and those who love shiny things. If you'd rather watch Crank than The Godfather because it's "razor-sharp," has the "window-effect," is a "Tier 1 transfer" or some such BS, I fear I'd have a hard time talking to you for more than 60 seconds. If you think Crank is a better movie, well, I might disagree, but we'd sure have a hell of a lot to argue about!

I am not very familar with AVS but I think I love movies and shiny things. IMO Godfather 1&2, Goodfellows, and Casino are the best of the best. I would welcome them on Blu-ray any day (Goodfellows was my first purchase on Blu-ray). But I am also really amazed at how good the shiny movies look too such as Crank and Ghost Riders.