Archived: Insiders Thread

[Hussla]

I for one would love to see Metropolis in HD.

From memory when they did the recent digital restoration they scanned and editted all at 2k. The DVD edition of it looked pretty amazing.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by ErikR

This has been driving me crazy for a long time now....

Everytime I see a commercial for anything that is being released by an HD DVD only studio, the commercials make sure to point out that it is coming out not only on DVD, but also HD DVD.

Now, when ever I see a commercial for Blu-ray studios (mainly Fox), they are only advertising the DVD version of the film. Wouldn't it make more sense if the ads mentioned that there was also a Blu-ray disc version coming out?

All the ads I have seen today for F4: ROTSS have NEVER mentioned that a Blu-ray version is coming. In fact, the ony time I ever see a commercial for Blu-ray is when watching HD Theater (formerly Discovery HD Theatre).

Can anyone tell me why the BDA or the supporting studios are not advertising their format more often than they do?

I agree - I rented Knocked Up and was forced to sit through an HD DVD promo telling me that the future of DVD is here now.

I expect to see Blu-ray campaigns similarly on ALL the big day and date titles from now on, it really is imperative.

Please pass on the word Paid, thanks dude.

[David Forbes]

Originally Posted by Frode

Easily fixed

http://steampunkworkshop.com/lcd.shtml

That's awesome!

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Or others so inclined ………….

Head’s up on an MSRP price slash -

If you can’t get a sweet deal on one of these………….
http://bssc.sel.sony.com/Broadcastan...20073&id=89766

Then definitively check out one of these……………..
http://www.bandprodigital.com/cgibin...gno=ECIN-DCM23

I see that the LED Sony monitor has partly D-Cinema color space, so if a BD was mastered looking at that color space and then someone watched it on an extended gamut LED HDTV, he would get some quasi-xvYcc extended gamut benefit

[scott1256ca]

I know there has been speculation, but is there any confirmation on any titles coming out that will use BD+?
If so, which will be the first?

Is there any indication on how confident the studios are that BD+ won't be cracked right away?

And are there going to be new AACS keys being used soon? I read somewhere there was something planned for this fall to defeat AnyDVD's copy scheme.

Thanks

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Sir Terrence

I saw that thread unfold before my eyes, and I'll be damned if this wasn't one of the worst attacks on a producer that I have ever seen on any board.

If I was them, I would pack my bags, leave that mud pit, and come here

We are much more appreciable of a producer coming here and telling us how they produced their movie on both a techincal and artistic way. Ungrateful slugs I believe me grammy would have called them over there.

I think that the general consensus all over the internet is that AVM$ is simply an HD DVD fan site masquerading as a “neutral” forum. And the Science part of it (at least on the HDM threads) went out the window a long time ago. Around the time AVS became AVM$.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Good to know dude - looking forward to it.

Regarding the more economical eCinema display I linked, for people unaware, the founder of eCinema and the guy that spearheaded the development of their new LCD is Martin Euredjian.

Suffice to say when Euredjian speaks, everybody listens…………..and I mean everybody –even the likes of paidgeek, Charles Poynton, etc.
So I would expect the quality of that display to be special given its price point.

[ryoohki]

Originally Posted by scott1256ca

I know there has been speculation, but is there any confirmation on any titles coming out that will use BD+?
If so, which will be the first?

Is there any indication on how confident the studios are that BD+ won't be cracked right away?

And are there going to be new AACS keys being used soon? I read somewhere there was something planned for this fall to defeat AnyDVD's copy scheme.

Thanks

The first BD+ is Day After Tomorrow, this was confirmed by looking at the Disc Structure (There's a BD+ drawers on the disc), this disc don't work on the LG and BDP 1200, but work on the Panasonic (Long load time) and PS3

New keys are being used on new fantastic 4 movie, but not BD+ was used on that titles..

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Azumi

hi Penton,

Since we're talking about film restauration, I'm really curious if we're getting any closer to using digital media to replace film stock as a "permanent" storage and preservation system.

What I mean by this, isn't a DI, but a digital copy that matches *exactly* the amount of information contained in 35 mm (or 65) film stock, and that would permanently "lock" the picture against the essence of time.

I know that George Lucas has toyed with the idea over time -- and I don't need to tell you how many old movies are lost forever every year...

Has this project become any closer -- or is it still a film geek's fantasy?

Wow, you opened up a discussion that could divert this thread into hours of seamless branching possibilites……something Blu-ray can do soo much easier given its technological superiority over HD DVD.

First of all, I believe you’re mixing up the terms…..”film restoration” and “film preservation’’.
I think you are referring to “film preservation” per se.

Even among the experts, this discussion can get robust and contentious. I think the consensus still is that the best entity to “preserve” is still the film negative ; however, more and more “digital archiving” is being done. To that end, the Science and Technology Council of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences will soon be issuing a report on their take on digital preservation.

Specifically in regards to your question about Digital Intermediates, from the perspective of studios’ that are leaders in the process of film restoration and preservation like Sony Pictures, WB, Disney, and Fox, since the digital intermediate revolution has come about (with more and more current feature film post production involving the DI process), it has become increasingly financially viable for the Asset Management Dept. of a studio to do 4K DI’s of old films……….if, the condition of the original film elements justifies the process. Also, with the thought of Digital Cinema theatrical presentations hopefully coming to a Cineplex near you, that driving force certainly encourages this type of “preservation” of old films.

However (and this may seem surprising to some), keep in mind that even with modern day motion pictures that were shot by the cinematographer in the *digital* format like Superman Returns ……….. the current thinking is that the best way to “preserve” features like that is still on film. Meaning the digital files are laser-recorded onto YCM separation masters (prints on high-quality black-and-white Kodak film ) which represent the yellow, cyan and magenta color separations of the original film. From those separations, a new print is produced which is ultimately approved by the film’s director and that film print is ideally what is “preserved” into the studio’s film archive.

Ironic, eh ?

In the meantime, those digital films that were originally shot in the digital format with things like the Panavision Genesis or the Viper camera or those that received a digital intermediate as part of their life in the production pipeline, are cared for by storing them in the latest digital format and then migrating them into the newest digital format in accordance with progressive changes in digital platforms and technology…..i.e. maybe every 4 or 5 years or so.

Now, in terms of “film restorations” done for the sole and specific reason of immediate gratification for the home video enthusiastic (where film archiving or future Digital Cinema presentation is generally not of concern). There are exceptions but that is a completely different animal. That process is more aptly termed “video remastering” or “video restoration”.

Granted it does not involve a full blown “film restoration” that easily costs hundreds of thousands of dollars depending upon the condition of the original elements but, it is generally better than just using old video masters…… and it sure gets the title out to the public on high-def optical disc months, if not years, sooner.

Excuse any typos or what not above but I typed up the above response very rapidly and I'm now in the process of limping on out the door.

[RobertB]

I'm sorry if this question has been answered earlier somewhere but anyway, here goes;

Has there been any indication that Criterion will make any Blu-ray editions of "their" movies?

[ra1024]

I know we recently heard from Paid several times on why WB won't do optimized encodes for BR. I was wondering if any insiders can comment on whether we might see re-releases after they go exclusive with optimized encodes.

After just purchasing Troy, I was very disappointed in the lack of detail and have decided (again) that I will no longer purchase any WB titles until they do quality releases. It's a shame that we'll get Blade Runner without lossless audio and likely have the Harry Potter series released with just an above average PQ.

I wouldn't worry about this if I felt there was a strong chance we would see re-releases in the coming year. Is this a likely scenario or is this something they wouldn't do because it would be admitting to a mistake or because cost would be too high?

[MarekM]

Originally Posted by ra1024

I know we recently heard from Paid several times on why WB won't do optimized encodes for BR. I was wondering if any insiders can comment on whether we might see re-releases after they go exclusive with optimized encodes.

After just purchasing Troy, I was very disappointed in the lack of detail and have decided (again) that I will no longer purchase any WB titles until they do quality releases. It's a shame that we'll get Blade Runner without lossless audio and likely have the Harry Potter series released with just an above average PQ.

I wouldn't worry about this if I felt there was a strong chance we would see re-releases in the coming year. Is this a likely scenario or is this something they wouldn't do because it would be admitting to a mistake or because cost would be too high?

was there official pressrelease with mention about audio tracks on Blade Runner ? is it confirmed that there is no lossless audio ?

thanx
Marek

[kurtlingle]

Here is a question for kJack:

Keith - a few months ago you mentioned some great news coming to BD concerning hardware in the fall. Also I remember you saying something about great news for Q4 and Q5.

So, have any of these been announced yet and can you give us hints as to the current timing?

Thanks!
Kurt

[cjamescook]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

...
Now, in terms of “film restorations” done for the sole and specific reason of immediate gratification for the home video enthusiastic (where film archiving or future Digital Cinema presentation is generally not of concern). There are exceptions but that is a completely different animal. That process is more aptly termed “video remastering” or “video restoration”.

Granted it does not involve a full blown “film restoration” that easily costs hundreds of thousands of dollars depending upon the condition of the original elements but, it is generally better than just using old video masters…… and it sure gets the title out to the public on high-def optical disc months, if not years, sooner.

Can you imagine a community approach to film restoration?

I'm guessing that the cost of film restorage is divided between scanning, hunting down film element, and labor-intensive work of removing dust and scratches. Commenting on the last:

We've seen an Internet-community approach to searching satellite scans for that lost flyer out West. We've also seen folks run "screen blanker" programs that actually spend idle compute cycles on cancer and genome compute-intensive tasks. That is, the tasks are divided across all the idle PCs across the net. We've also seen open-source community efforts.

So, imagine a time where applications exist to divide up the hand-restoration tasks, then farm it out to individuals on the net (assume sufficient net bandwidth). Then everyone takes a piece of film, guides the correction on their piece, then transmits it back.

This might lower costs sufficiently to restore films that might otherwise be ignored.

Or am I just talking out my hat , for one reason or another?

-Jim

[fyzziks]

Originally Posted by kjack

Everything seems to come back and haunt me...

Supporting DTS-HD MA decoding in the player need not increase the cost of a player except that there might be a little more royalities associated with it, but nothing big.

That's great news. I just have one more question about this design.

When it decodes audio onboard, can it output the results as PCM in the audio portion of the HDMI datastream?

It's probably obvious, but I couldn't find it in the SMP8634 blurb.
Thanks.

[AnimeOnBlu]

Originally Posted by RobertB

I'm sorry if this question has been answered earlier somewhere but anyway, here goes;

Has there been any indication that Criterion will make any Blu-ray editions of "their" movies?

I believe I read right here on these forums the Criterion is waiting for a format winner to emerge before they release anything. So it will probably be some time before we see anything from them.

[WickyWoo]

Can you imagine a community approach to film restoration?

I'm guessing that the cost of film restorage is divided between scanning, hunting down film element, and labor-intensive work of removing dust and scratches. Commenting on the last:

We've seen an Internet-community approach to searching satellite scans for that lost flyer out West. We've also seen folks run "screen blanker" programs that actually spend idle compute cycles on cancer and genome compute-intensive tasks. That is, the tasks are divided across all the idle PCs across the net. We've also seen open-source community efforts.

So, imagine a time where applications exist to divide up the hand-restoration tasks, then farm it out to individuals on the net (assume sufficient net bandwidth). Then everyone takes a piece of film, guides the correction on their piece, then transmits it back.

This might lower costs sufficiently to restore films that might otherwise be ignored.

Or am I just talking out my hat , for one reason or another?

-Jim

Well, it's a good idea, in theory.

The real problem is that a lot of the work is done by hand, painting out scratches and the like. I'm sure it could be useful for some baseline stuff, and worth looking into especially for smaller companies for whom and automated scrubbing is what they can afford.

Since most of the packages are already set up for distributed processing over ethernet, it shouldn't be too bad to do the same for a net distro. Just keep iin mind that saving the negatives is paramount

[NutsAboutPS3]

Originally Posted by cjamescook

I'm guessing that the cost of film restorage is divided between scanning, hunting down film element, and labor-intensive work of removing dust and scratches. Commenting on the last:

I'd have thought that dust and scratches would be very effectively eliminated by hardware at the scanning stage using ICE type technology like you get in decent consumer photographic film scanners. See here for an explanation of how it works and an example of the results.

[kjack]

Originally Posted by fyzziks

That's great news. I just have one more question about this design. When it decodes audio onboard, can it output the results as PCM in the audio portion of the HDMI datastream? It's probably obvious, but I couldn't find it in the SMP8634 blurb.

The blurb can't list everything for everyone, so we also have a 600-page datasheet for that.

[Shadowself]

Originally Posted by cjamescook

Can you imagine a community approach to film restoration?

I'm guessing that the cost of film restorage is divided between scanning, hunting down film element, and labor-intensive work of removing dust and scratches. Commenting on the last:

We've seen an Internet-community approach to searching satellite scans for that lost flyer out West. We've also seen folks run "screen blanker" programs that actually spend idle compute cycles on cancer and genome compute-intensive tasks. That is, the tasks are divided across all the idle PCs across the net. We've also seen open-source community efforts.

So, imagine a time where applications exist to divide up the hand-restoration tasks, then farm it out to individuals on the net (assume sufficient net bandwidth). Then everyone takes a piece of film, guides the correction on their piece, then transmits it back.

This might lower costs sufficiently to restore films that might otherwise be ignored.

Or am I just talking out my hat , for one reason or another?

-Jim

The issue, as I see it, would be who choses what color pallet to use -- and color pallets often change throughout a given film? The Director would have a hell of a time sifting through all the different color schemes. You only have to look at the Dracula related thread to see that some people don't like what the Director likes.

How does the Director's intent for things like the amount of grain and such get accurately conveyed to the multitude doing the work?

And... Photoshopped movie frames? Easter eggs in films?