Archived: Insiders Thread

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin

Cool! I did not know this. Any links?

Are there any pre/pros on the horizon that will decode the new formats??

I haven't heard of any pre/pros.
I know that the Denon HDMI 1.3 line is supposed to be released by this summer.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/The-N...dy-42844.shtml

Looks like Denon is preparing to launch its first ever HDMI 1.3 receiver. While that won’t happen for another 3 months or so, Denon has already announced its new line of A/V receivers that will support HDMI 1.3 but because of the manufacturing process, chances are we won't see them until the summer of 2007. In addition to 1080p pass-through, most of the models will come with Dolby Digital Plus decoding, whereas the high-end models will also come with onboard Dolby True HD and DTS-HD Master Audio decoding. So, if you plan to buy a HDMI 1.3 ready receiver, you’ll have to wait a little.

At first I thought that HDMI 1.3 receivers won’t come out until the end of 2007, but it seems that Denon is hurrying to be the first one that shows off such devices. Moreover, all future Denons will support 36-bit color-depth and 1080p pass-through. That may sound a little too good to be true but Denon seems pretty happy with the solutions they’ve come up with. Rumors suggest that Marantz is also on its way to produce HDMI 1.3 ready receivers, so I can understand the need for speed in this case.

Several voices close to Denon suggested that some models will offer video processing from Silicon Optix (HQV) while others will be equipped with Faroudja or Analog Devices video processors. So it’s video and audio processing at the highest level. The only problem here comes when you realize that you also have to buy a decent HD-DVD/Blu-Ray player and a 1080p capable LCD or plasma. But if you’ve got the money for the Denons, you’ll fix that problem somehow.

Yes, I'll do my best to fix that problem somehow.

[kjack]

Originally Posted by benes

So now that it seems we will be getting BD+ soon, do we know for certain that all current players will handle it?

It will be tested on current and players currently in design before being deployed.

[shamus]

Originally Posted by joshd2012

Well, the the only choice right now is to have the player decode them and send them as PCM.

I thought I read that even if you had the capabilities to decode in both(decoders in both receiver and player, HDMI 1.3 etc..) it is still ideal to do the decoding in the player... just curious if that is true and why.

[dobyblue]

I've not heard that as being true.
AFAIK if you want to use interactive content you will have to let the player do the decoding, but if you just want to watch the main feature with the main audio track you can choose either. The advantage goes to which piece of equipment has better decoding abilities.

[kjack]

Originally Posted by shamus

I thought I read that even if you had the capabilities to decode in both(decoders in both receiver and player, HDMI 1.3 etc..) it is still ideal to do the decoding in the player... just curious if that is true and why.

If decoding is done in the receiver, you lose the ability to mix in PIP audio and other interactive audio (button clicks, interactivity with the movie, etc.). Regardless where the decoding is done, the audio decoder has to be bit-accurate, so there should be no audio quality difference between the two solutions.

[Esox50]

Originally Posted by kjack

If decoding is done in the receiver, you lose the ability to mix in PIP audio and other interactive audio (button clicks, interactivity with the movie, etc.). Regardless where the decoding is done, the audio decoder has to be bit-accurate, so there should be no audio quality difference between the two solutions.

Keith, appreciate the input you have here. My 'worry' is that once we start mixing in PIP and other interactive audio, the overall fidelity will somehow be reduced. I for one would love to see manufacturers allow people to use the mixed audio from the player (like, say lossy Dolby Digital or lossy DTS 5.1 mixed with the PIP/interactive) for noncritical listening... but for the lossless streams have them be as "untouched" as possible and completely avoid the cheaper decoding and/or mixing chips/circuits in the players (and have the stream sent to a high end pre/pro for decoding and D/A).

Am I making sense? Is this possible for manufacturers to implement with Sigma Designs?

[kjack]

Originally Posted by Esox50

My 'worry' is that once we start mixing in PIP and other interactive audio, the overall fidelity will somehow be reduced.

If there is no PIP or interactive audio enabled by the user, the main audio is untouched.

I for one would love to see manufacturers allow people to use the mixed audio from the player (like, say lossy Dolby Digital or lossy DTS 5.1 mixed with the PIP/interactive) for noncritical listening... but for the lossless streams have them be as "untouched" as possible...

There is a big push to be able to send the main audio bitstream over HDMI 1.3 and we have been working on supporting that.

..and completely avoid the cheaper decoding and/or mixing chips/circuits in the players (and have the stream sent to a high end pre/pro for decoding and D/A).

Gee, thanks.

[The Big Blue]

Paidgeek (or anyone else).

What do you know about the $10 rebate deal that I think was only with the PS3. Specifically, there are only 3 movies/studio on the coupons. A while back I went to the site assuming there would be more movies listed there but there weren't. However there was wording (that I can't find now and may have been removed?) stating to check back often as more titles will be added. Checking the site again today there are no new movies.

The thing is, as of right now there are 3 (maybe 4) coupons I won't use if they don't add some films.

Thanks in advance.

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by The Big Blue

Paidgeek (or anyone else).

What do you know about the $10 rebate deal that I think was only with the PS3. Specifically, there are only 3 movies/studio on the coupons. A while back I went to the site assuming there would be more movies listed there but there weren't. However there was wording (that I can't find now and may have been removed?) stating to check back often as more titles will be added. Checking the site again today there are no new movies.

The thing is, as of right now there are 3 (maybe 4) coupons I won't use if they don't add some films.

Thanks in advance.

Sorry but I don't have any insights on the coupon program.

[Esox50]

Originally Posted by kjack

If there is no PIP or interactive audio enabled by the user, the main audio is untouched.

That's good news.

Originally Posted by kjack

There is a big push to be able to send the main audio bitstream over HDMI 1.3 and we have been working on supporting that.

Can you explain this comment a little more if possible? Who's driving the big push? Studios, the large CEs, the niche players (like Theta, Meridian, etc).

Originally Posted by kjack

Gee, thanks.

Glad you have a sense of humor. I didn't mean "cheap" in an absolute sense. I said "cheaper". But you certainly understand the hesitation for someone running something an 8K+ pre/pro (from a Theta, Meridian, or Lexicon) in allowing a $500-1,000 BD player "handle" the audio. It makes perfectionists and audiophiles 'wonder' and 'worry' what is going on that BD player!!! I may be totally wrong from an engineering standpoint. If so, let me know. I'm not an engineer; I'm a Finance guy...years ago I was out boozing and picking up women in college while my engineer friends were holed up in the library drawing out those little circuit diagrams (with the squiggly lines) for their "double E" tests the next day. Or was it for their mechanical engineering...who knows!!!

[kjack]

Originally Posted by Esox50

Can you explain this comment a little more if possible? Who's driving the big push? Studios, the large CEs, the niche players (like Theta, Meridian, etc).

Basically all the player manufacturers.

I may be totally wrong from an engineering standpoint.

You had fun in college? Anyway, both solutions use an audio DSP, both can run the same audio decoding algorithms. So no differences there.

Differences can come into any post processing done after audio decoding (but we offer a full suite of AVR-style processing also), quality of audio DACs, quality of power supply and construction, etc. But this stuff can also be used if the decoding is done in the player and LPCM sent over HDMI. So it's really a wash.

Some people do have a concern about jitter when sending LPCM over HDMI. And I imagine some of the AVR decoding algorithms could be tweaked by various manufacturers to provide additional features.

[Chris Beveridge]

Paidgeek,

I know this may be out of your realm but it was worth asking; Sony Japan has announced Paprika for Blu-ray:

http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=BRS-41985

This would be Sony's first anime release in Japan. The film has received some limited exposure in the US and is apparently set for a French release around the same time. Has this title come through the pipe for a US release as well? With many Sony titles being "shared" across regions and all... I'm hoping that at least the Japanese release will have subtitles if no US release is forthcoming.

[WriteSimply]

Originally Posted by kjack

Some people do have a concern about jitter when sending LPCM over HDMI. And I imagine some of the AVR decoding algorithms could be tweaked by various manufacturers to provide additional features.

Oh the J word.

Can you tell us the concern of the J word with regards to LPCM over HDMI?

What are the CEs going to do about J on LPCM over HDMI, if the issue exist at all?

Can J be eliminated by passing the undecoded stream (except for the tracks already in LPCM) straight to the receiver?

Thanks kjack!


fuad

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by Chris Beveridge

Paidgeek,

I know this may be out of your realm but it was worth asking; Sony Japan has announced Paprika for Blu-ray:

http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=BRS-41985

This would be Sony's first anime release in Japan. The film has received some limited exposure in the US and is apparently set for a French release around the same time. Has this title come through the pipe for a US release as well? With many Sony titles being "shared" across regions and all... I'm hoping that at least the Japanese release will have subtitles if no US release is forthcoming.

I don't recall seeing this on the NA schedule. I did see the video master and it looks good. Maybe you can have one shipped?

[shadowmoon]

Just a couple questions,

1. Does Sony have any plans to produce a 5-disc or 400 disc changer for BD? Would be great if I can load like an entire season of CSI or something into the player and not getting up to change disc every so often.

2. For PSP... Would Sony ever release a UMD burner and blank UMDs for consumers?

Thanx for your time.

[Chris Beveridge]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

I don't recall seeing this on the NA schedule. I did see the video master and it looks good. Maybe you can have one shipped?

Definitely will end up doing that, even if it isn't subtitled, as I did a few others from Japan. Anime on the US side is still too cost prohibitive in the authoring side from what all my contacts at the studios are telling me so Japan is the only real source right now.

[Frode]

Since we're on the subject of Paprika the specs for the japanese edition just came in:

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/do...e1.htm?ref=rss

Summary for those who don't speak Japanese - the BD edition is the movie only and no extras whatsoever. Meanwhile the DVD editions get commentary tracks, making of etc. According to Watch Impress this was done so as to maximize quality, but at only 90 minutes on a dual layer BD this just doesn't smell right to me.

Paidgeek if this ever gets a US release do you think you could look into the extras situation so that we don't get stuck with a gimped release? I don't know if you have any contacts in the Japanese department, but some hints to them that they might want to try and maintain the same content for both formats would be appreciated. Doing stripped down releases is no way to run a format war, and it also won't entice people to switch from DVD over to Blu-ray.

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by shadowmoon

Just a couple questions,

1. Does Sony have any plans to produce a 5-disc or 400 disc changer for BD? Would be great if I can load like an entire season of CSI or something into the player and not getting up to change disc every so often.

2. For PSP... Would Sony ever release a UMD burner and blank UMDs for consumers?

Thanx for your time.

I have heard rumors that a disc changer is being considered so it is entirely possible that one will be announced.

I haven't seen any UMD burning drives, so I really don't know if this will happen. It seems that Flash memory is advancing so fast that it would make UMD burning hard to justify.

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by Chris Beveridge

I'm hoping that at least the Japanese release will have subtitles if no US release is forthcoming.

This is what I am hoping as well, because if so I will be all over this title.

[GoldenRedux]

Originally Posted by Frode

Since we're on the subject of Paprika the specs for the japanese edition just came in:

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/do...e1.htm?ref=rss

Summary for those who don't speak Japanese - the BD edition is the movie only and no extras whatsoever. Meanwhile the DVD editions get commentary tracks, making of etc. According to Watch Impress this was done so as to maximize quality, but at only 90 minutes on a dual layer BD this just doesn't smell right to me.

Paidgeek if this ever gets a US release do you think you could look into the extras situation so that we don't get stuck with a gimped release? I don't know if you have any contacts in the Japanese department, but some hints to them that they might want to try and maintain the same content for both formats would be appreciated. Doing stripped down releases is no way to run a format war, and it also won't entice people to switch from DVD over to Blu-ray.

For those of you who do read Japanese, is there any mention of English subtitles?