Sony introduces high-end ZD9 TV series with HDR

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by jaaguir

Considering you already get and enjoy so much out of the format thanks to the synergy of your set-up and your skill in setting it up, I wonder how much more you expect to get with proper HDR? I mean, you're either going berserk with joy or it's going to be a disappointment for not being much better than what you get now, because of how you've stated your objective measurements of color and gamma seem to trail fine those of BT2020 and ST2084 (I'm probably messing up or misunderstanding some of the tech jargon).

Sure, sure. I'm effectively getting HDR lite with WCG, no matter how dismissive Raymondo may be of it, so I'm NOT expecting miracles but it would be a big jump in screen size and there'd be two years of additional tech improvements on top, allowing things like Sony's excellent Smooth Gradation feature to be applied to 4K signals.

@ DJR662: having read the entire AVS thread (you're a braver man than I, and probably have a much faster browser because AVS kills mine) can you tell me if the ZD9 is able to zoom in, overscan etc a 4K signal? The extra processing power of the new chip should allow this, but I don't know for sure.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

@ DJR662: having read the entire AVS thread (you're a braver man than I, and probably have a much faster browser because AVS kills mine) can you tell me if the ZD9 is able to zoom in, overscan etc a 4K signal? The extra processing power of the new chip should allow this, but I don't know for sure.

I've been going through the Z9D thread for the last couple of weeks at work, it helps me get me through the nightshifts. Every day I did a couple of pages but I don't seem to recall anything about what your asking, I could have missed a page or two so I'm not 100% sure.

Your asking about this made me check my own current Sony TV and sure nuff you cannot zoom in or anything (all picture settings here are greyed out) on any of the HDMI ports except for port 4 which is ARC. I went to the "picture management" (not sure if that's what it's called in English) menu and was able to select "full resolution" but only after I disabled the "automatic display screen" function. I turned that on again and "full resolution" remained. My non HDCP 2.2 Sony receiver is hooked up to port 4, no 4K signals are going through there.

Ports 1 (PS4 Pro) and 2 (UB900) are set to "enhanced" for 4K/HDCP 2.2 etc acceptance so I thought maybe If I change that back to "regular" I could change picture settings (full resolution etc) for those ports but that did not work. Port 3 (Xbox 360) is set to "regular" but again, all picture settings in the "picture management" menu here are greyed out too.

So on all those 3 ports it says "normal" instead of "full resolution". Question is, is overscan on or off at this setting or doesn't that apply to 4K signals at all? Even if that's the case, that still leaves port 3 which is set to "regular" and also cannot be set to "full resolution".

Note: all words between brackets (except "nomal") have been translated from my native language to English so I'm not sure if these are the right tems.

[Geoff D]

It's such a simple question but I've never seen it referenced to in any discourse about the ZD9. Maybe I should ask at AVF?

But I know what you mean, thanks for that. On my set "Normal" usually means about 5% overscan, but by the same token the "Full Pixel" designation only comes up when it's actually showing a 4K signal (which is logical), if it's got 1080p incoming then it switches to "+1" which means no overscan.

[mutelight]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It's such a simple question but I've never seen it referenced to in any discourse about the ZD9. Maybe I should ask at AVF?

But I know what you mean, thanks for that. On my set "Normal" usually means about 5% overscan, but by the same token the "Full Pixel" designation only comes up when it's actually showing a 4K signal (which is logical), if it's got 1080p incoming then it switches to "+1" which means no overscan.

I can check for you when I get home this evening, see if it differs from the behavior on DJR662's set.

Out of curiosity, why are you interested in overscan or zooming on 4K sources?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by mutelight

I can check for you when I get home this evening, see if it differs from the behavior on DJR662's set.

Out of curiosity, why are you interested in overscan or zooming on 4K sources?

Well, I still watch these old things called DVDs and sometimes I get the odd non-anamorphic widescreen disc which needs zooming in, and perhaps the only negative point about the Panasonic 4K player is that it has no aspect ratio control AT ALL. No 4:3 or 16:9 selection, no 'fake anamorphic' zoom mode, no nothing. And because I can't zoom in using the TV's controls when receiving the upscaled 4K signal I either have to play the disc in my other Panny (regular BD) or switch the output of my Panny 4K to 1080p, whereupon all those controls become active again.

And I like to overscan certain things, e.g. Network in the UK have a habit of encoding a blue line down the side of the frame on their TV Blu-rays which I find distracting. I also do this with 4:3 TV content on Blu quite often anyway to just slice a little bit from the top and bottom, the safe action area has it covered and it embiggens the image just a lil' bit without going all "screen filler" on yo ass.

[mutelight]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Well, I still watch these old things called DVDs and sometimes I get the odd non-anamorphic widescreen disc which needs zooming in, and perhaps the only negative point about the Panasonic 4K player is that it has no aspect ratio control AT ALL. No 4:3 or 16:9 selection, no 'fake anamorphic' zoom mode, no nothing. And because I can't zoom in using the TV's controls when receiving the upscaled 4K signal I either have to play the disc in my other Panny (regular BD) or switch the output of my Panny 4K to 1080p, whereupon all those controls become active again.

And I like to overscan certain things, e.g. Network in the UK have a habit of encoding a blue line down the side of the frame on their TV Blu-rays which I find distracting. I also do this with 4:3 TV content on Blu quite often anyway to just slice a little bit from the top and bottom, the safe action area has it covered and it embiggens the image just a lil' bit without going all "screen filler" on yo ass.

Gotcha, I have never had a player that hasn't been able to scale and rarely watch content that needs it anyway which is the only reason I asked about the use case.

I'll take a look for you when I get home in the next couple of hours.

[Geoff D]

Thanks. I guess it doesn't help that Sony have removed the aspect ratio button from Sony remotes in recent years, it's something that people can't even stumble upon by accident, you've gotta press Options then go into the sub-menu there. Ugh. *Geoff gazes longingly at his old Sony remotes with aspect ratio button*

[mutelight]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Thanks. I guess it doesn't help that Sony have removed the aspect ratio button from Sony remotes in recent years, it's something that people can't even stumble upon by accident, you've gotta press Options then go into the sub-menu there. Ugh. *Geoff gazes longingly at his old Sony remotes with aspect ratio button*

I wonder if something like a Logitech Harmony could be programmed to go straight to it, similar to the way you can skip the submenu to get to the picture adjustments by manually programming it.

[mutelight]

Just tested it out and the ability to change "wide" mode is only available on non 4K signals. There is a dedicated button on the remote though.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Well, I still watch these old things called DVDs and sometimes I get the odd non-anamorphic widescreen disc which needs zooming in, and perhaps the only negative point about the Panasonic 4K player is that it has no aspect ratio control AT ALL. No 4:3 or 16:9 selection, no 'fake anamorphic' zoom mode, no nothing. And because I can't zoom in using the TV's controls when receiving the upscaled 4K signal I either have to play the disc in my other Panny (regular BD) or switch the output of my Panny 4K to 1080p, whereupon all those controls become active again.

My Oppo 203 has various zoom modes

[Geoff D]

Pffft, I'm not buying some buggy-assed player for double the price just for the zoom modes. They're very well implemented to be fair, but not worth paying over the odds for.

@ mutelight

Thanks, so still no zooming. Pity.

[mutelight]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Pffft, I'm not buying some buggy-assed player for double the price just for the zoom modes. They're very well implemented to be fair, but not worth paying over the odds for.

@ mutelight

Thanks, so still no zooming. Pity.

No doubt the Oppo has had issues but at least all the minor ones I had were addressed swiftly and are all resolved now.

With the Oppo running through my Marantz AV7702MK2 to the Z, the only issues I have had were:

• Studio splash video clip not playing but everything was fine once it hit the top menu - fixed in the first firmware I received
• Disc tray got stuck in ejected position 2 times out I'd say 40 movies - now fixed in recent firmware
• Deepwater Horizon had two minor pauses - also fixed

Not in any way trying to persuade you one way or another but in my AV configuration, the issues I encountered were minor at best. That said I do not use HDMI In since the Z has phenomenal scaling and I do not use the HDR Metadata stripping since the Z also has fantastic HDR performance.

[Geoff D]

I still see a lot of issues reported with skipping and whatnot in the AVF 203 thread, I'm not just pulling it outta my ass. And seeing as HDTVtest just gave the nod to the UB900 as their "reference" UHD player then I'm comfortable with my choice, it really is a magnificent player.

Of course, if I get a ZD9 then I will have to seriously think about getting a DV-enabled deck but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it, and whatever I do get won't replace the Panny outright.

[mutelight]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I still see a lot of issues reported with skipping and whatnot in the AVF 203 thread, I'm not just pulling it outta my ass. And seeing as HDTVtest just gave the nod to the UB900 as their "reference" UHD player then I'm comfortable with my choice, it really is a magnificent player.

Of course, if I get a ZD9 then I will have to seriously think about getting a DV-enabled deck but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it, and whatever I do get won't replace the Panny outright.

No worries, bud, never said you were! I am active in numerous Oppo threads including the one here and AVSForum so I am extremely aware of what people are encountering.

Just sharing my experience with the player with the TV which is the topic of this thread.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Pffft, I'm not buying some buggy-assed player for double the price just for the zoom modes. They're very well implemented to be fair, but not worth paying over the odds for.

I thought you had the Panny, which is *more* expensive.


FWIW it's not anymore buggy than my past BD players. I haven't had a disc not play.

[DJR662]

For those interested, there's a "Z9D calibration and finetuning" thread over at AVS.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

I thought you had the Panny, which is *more* expensive.

It's not more expensive over here, the price is MUCH less than an OPPO. Quick amazon snap shot: OPPO is £649, the Panny 900 is £449 (bought mine from someone for £280). And if people don't want the analogue audio outs + fancy remote then the identically-performing UB700 is £275.

FWIW it's not anymore buggy than my past BD players. I haven't had a disc not play.

I had a feeling you'd have a perfect one.

As for da TV, the reviews keep mentioning over and over that the display hard clips at 1000 nits and doesn't map the rest, but I remember Penton dropping hints that Stacey Spears told him that there was indeed a picture mode with proper mapping while the others just clipped. Damned if I can get any more clarity on the situation than that though, and the newest XE93 sets don't seem to have any reported issues with clipping.

DJR662, did you come across this in any of the AVS threads? You're well within your rights to tell me to **** off and read the thread but as I said, AVS is as slow as molasses on my PC.

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It's not more expensive over here, the price is MUCH less than an OPPO. Quick amazon snap shot: OPPO is £649, the Panny 900 is £449 (bought mine from someone for £280). And if people don't want the analogue audio outs + fancy remote then the identically-performing UB700 is £275.


I had a feeling you'd have a perfect one.

As for da TV, the reviews keep mentioning over and over that the display hard clips at 1000 nits and doesn't map the rest, but I remember Penton dropping hints that Stacey Spears told him that there was indeed a picture mode with proper mapping while the others just clipped. Damned if I can get any more clarity on the situation than that though, and the newest XE93 sets don't seem to have any reported issues with clipping.

DJR662, did you come across this in any of the AVS threads? You're well within your rights to tell me to **** off and read the thread but as I said, AVS is as slow as molasses on my PC.

Cinema Pro has a hard clip. Cinema Home has more tone mapping. I have the HDR test patterns and it performs as expected. This was discussed on the avforums and another member posted a link from a Sony tech.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Geoff D]

Would anyone have that link, by any chance? I'm starting to lean towards the newer 65XE93, seeing as it's got some reet tasty offers at the moment...

[DJR662]

Yeah there seems to be a difference between the Home and Pro cinema modes concerning constrast. Although one member had the exact same picture settings for both Home and Pro, switched between them but couldn't tell the difference. I've also noticed that the Advanced Contrast Enhancer setting keeps getting praised, besides adding just that more pop to the picture, it also actually prevented clipping in one instance? I usually leave these kinds of settings off but I tried it on my XD94 anyway and I certainly wouldn't use it on the highest setting there.

I've bookmarked the page with member 10K's calibration settings, those seem like a good starting point to begin with. I hope there will be a feature firmware fix for being able to keep the picture settings of different presets and picture modes independently of each other, something that is possible on my old 2011 Sony HX929 but not on my 2016 Sony XD94 and now apparently the Z9D. The XD94 does have a separate HDR mode when playing HDR content, the Z9D does not. On a side note I wish the XD94 would also go into a separate 3D mode so you could tweak the picture settings independently from 2D. I even emailed Sony customer service about this and they acknowledged it and said it may be fixed sometime with a firmware update but I'm not counting on it. I guess the new generation Sony TVs are not that calibration friendly.

I've read The Z9D's smooth color gradation function works but apparently produces artifacts according to some members so they leave it at off. Shame though as I use it on my old HX929, on the XD94 this feature is absent.

Anyway my 65Z9D will be delivered tomorrow along with the X800 so that means lots of testing and playing around with the settings. Even though I haven't read much about DSE, smearing or any uniformity issues, I still keep my fingers crossed. I was very, very lucky with my XD94 considering it can be a very problematic panel as evident when reading the XD94 threads on both AVS and AVforums. Hope the Z9D will also be without any problems!