Sony introduces high-end ZD9 TV series with HDR

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by pbz06

Contrast at 85 for SDR seems really low. Have you used test patterns? You should easily be able to max it with no clipping.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

I've used S&M contrast test pattern (2nd editon). So you have contrast also at 100 (max) then?

To my eyes, with contrast at 85 in Cinema Pro, bar 252 is still barely visible, only bar 253 gets clipped.

[Geoff D]

@DJR662:

I use Cinema Pro for SDR and Cinema Home for HDR. I also store my different white balance corrections (now I've profiled my meter) under Expert 1 for Home and Expert 2 for Pro.

Originally Posted by pbz06

Contrast at 85 for SDR seems really low. Have you used test patterns? You should easily be able to max it with no clipping.

But why do you need to max out the contrast? I've calibrated mine (using a colourimeter and HCFR) to hit 120 nits peak in SDR with Contrast on 75 and backlight at 6, and it resolves the white clipping pattern all the way up whilst still giving me the SMPTE-mandated brightness peak for SDR.

With the contrast up any higher it begins to clip white detail, maybe not in test patterns but in real world viewing, e.g. in the Unforgiven thread I mentioned how a comparison of one scene showed more clipping in the SDR Blu-ray, but when I saw the capsaholic shot of the same scene I could see much more detail in the highlights than what I was seeing at my end in SDR, so I brought the contrast down accordingly until I could see that detail.

And I'd never, ever max out contrast no matter who told me to.

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

@DJR662:

I use Cinema Pro for SDR and Cinema Home for HDR. I also store my different white balance corrections (now I've profiled my meter) under Expert 1 for Home and Expert 2 for Pro.


But why do you need to max out the contrast? I've calibrated mine (using a colourimeter and HCFR) to hit 120 nits peak in SDR with Contrast on 75 and backlight at 6, and it resolves the white clipping pattern all the way up whilst still giving me the SMPTE-mandated brightness peak for SDR.

With the contrast up any higher it begins to clip white detail, maybe not in test patterns but in real world viewing, e.g. in the Unforgiven thread I mentioned how a comparison of one scene showed more clipping in the SDR Blu-ray, but when I saw the capsaholic shot of the same scene I could see much more detail in the highlights than what I was seeing at my end in SDR, so I brought the contrast down accordingly until I could see that detail.

And I'd never, ever max out contrast no matter who told me to.

Ok thanks. That makes sense now. I've always been told to increase contrast until clipping. But I now do understand the difference of targeting a range when calibrating.

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[Geoff D]

No worries. It's also worth bearing in mind that the contrast control at maximum will have other effects on the image even if it doesn't appear to be clipping, e.g. contrast directly affects how stuff like grain is reproduced. I put on a few minutes of Ghostbusters when I tried out 10K's settings (contrast @ 95, gamma @ 0) and was actually horrified by how the grain looked, really noisy and overbearing, but with my updated settings (contrast 88, gamma +2) it looked much more natural and I breathed a huge sigh of relief.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

No worries. It's also worth bearing in mind that the contrast control at maximum will have other effects on the image even if it doesn't appear to be clipping, e.g. contrast directly affects how stuff like grain is reproduced. I put on a few minutes of Ghostbusters when I tried out 10K's settings (contrast @ 95, gamma @ 0) and was actually horrified by how the grain looked, really noisy and overbearing, but with my updated settings (contrast 88, gamma +2) it looked much more natural and I breathed a huge sigh of relief.

I compared your HDR settings with mine, switching back and forth between Cinema Pro and Home while pulling up the Sony nit ramp pattern yet again.

Mines with Cinema Pro (85/-2) got stuck at 2500 while yours went all the way to 4000. I'm gonna be using your settings for a while now and see how it looks with real content.

[Geoff D]

The 4000 point itself clips but with Home (88/+2) I can see the 3000 bar clearly in the Sony pattern, and when using Ryan's test patterns I can see flashing bars all the way along to 89%, with 90% (4000 nits) and up clipping. Gonna give it another calibration run now to see how the EOTF is tracking.

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The 4000 point itself clips but with Home (88/+2) I can see the 3000 bar clearly in the Sony pattern, and when using Ryan's test patterns I can see flashing bars all the way along to 89%, with 90% (4000 nits) and up clipping. Gonna give it another calibration run now to see how the EOTF is tracking.

If you get a minute, do you mind also posting your settings? I went back a couple pages and can't find them. I'm assuming they are in your Sig but this annoying Tapatalk app doesn't show sigs.

Thanks

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Geoff D]

I don't do sigs.

[DJR662]

Okay, I'm all done messing around with the ZD9's settins now.

I'm using Geoff's contrast setting for HDR which works really well. I also lowered the contrast for SDR since my initial 85 was still too high after all after having another look at the S&M contrast pattern. In addition I also lowered the contrast a bit for 3D viewing.

And that's it, no more messing around from now on. It sometimes drives me crazy...

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by pbz06

If you get a minute, do you mind also posting your settings? I went back a couple pages and can't find them. I'm assuming they are in your Sig but this annoying Tapatalk app doesn't show sigs.

Thanks

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

*cough*irony*cough*

[DJJez]

Originally Posted by DJR662

Okay, I'm all done messing around with the ZD9's settins now.

I'm using Geoff's contrast setting for HDR which works really well. I also lowered the contrast for SDR since my initial 85 was still too high after all after having another look at the S&M contrast pattern. In addition I also lowered the contrast a bit for 3D viewing.

And that's it, no more messing around from now on. It sometimes drives me crazy...

ive always found the first few months i go insane with settings i drive myself mad then i calm down and leave everything alone.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by pbz06

If you get a minute, do you mind also posting your settings? I went back a couple pages and can't find them. I'm assuming they are in your Sig but this annoying Tapatalk app doesn't show sigs.

Thanks

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

There's no point posting any white balance stuff because it really is different from set to set (and mine is very different from SDR to HDR, even) but here's the juice for my UHD viewing, delivering 1869 nits peak output which maps to just under 4000 nits:

Brightness: Max
Contrast: 88
Gamma: +1
Black level: 50
Black adjust: off
ACE: off
LD: medium
XDR: high

Color: 52
Tint: 0
Color temp: Expert 1
Live color: off

Sharpness: 50
RC: off
Random NR: off
Digital noise NR: off
Smooth gradation: off

Motionflow: Off
Film mode: Medium (this is the first setting where the reverse 3:2 pulldown is applied to 24fps mastered as 60Hz, Low has no effect. Motionflow must be set to TrueCinema or Custom to enable it, good for DVDs and older 1080i60 sources e.g. DVHS or certain Blu-rays)

Video options: all on auto

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by DJJez

ive always found the first few months i go insane with settings i drive myself mad then i calm down and leave everything alone.

Well that's what I'm intend to do from now on, just leave everything the way it is now and be content about it and watch some damn movies.

I'm still not 100% satisfied with my other TV's settings though, so I might have to fiddle around some more after all.

[Geoff D]

I love a good fiddle, yak yak yak.

But after a few days of calibration with a properly profiled meter I'm happy with what I'm seeing (and hearing, this TV's sound is surprisingly non-shit) so that's it for now. But out of all of it the one thing that was winding me up the most was finding the proper reverse 3:2 pulldown mode. On the previous Sony it was so simple, you just set the Motionflow to Truecinema and that's it, but now there's three different 'film mode' adjustments on top of the Truecinema settings and it took me a while to find the right combination. Thank heavens for Spears & Munsil and their 3:2 test patterns.

[Robert Zohn]

Sony dropped the UPP prices by $1k on the 75" Z9D and an additional $500 off for the 65" Z9D. Sale ends June 16th.

[PaulGo]

So the current prices in the US are:

65" $4,999
75" $7,999
100" $59,999

[Robert Zohn]

Correct, but the instant rebate is funded by Sony for authorized dealers and this IR promotion end on June 16th.

Some authorized dealers are enhancing the sale with additional Rewards Credits.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Correct, but the instant rebate is funded by Sony for authorized dealers and this IR promotion end on June 16th.

Some authorized dealers are enhancing the sale with additional Rewards Credits.

What Rewards Credits? Sony Rewards?

[Robert Zohn]

No the Rewards credit comes from us. We have a 10% Rewards credit on all Sony TVs.

[gkolb]

Wonder what the holdup is on the DV update?
Even though the worldwide hdmi update is still rolling out, we've had that for 3 weeks now stateside. Sony sure is tight lipped, like all of them took the double secret probation silence pledge.