Dark Force Entertainment Discussion Thread

[mja345]

Originally Posted by WoodyO

Bill's house is probably an absolute cesspool. I'm envisioning black mold and empty take out containers everywhere. Probably has mildew completely covering the shower except for where two footprints are, and an unflushed turd sitting in the bowl.

With Bill's diet, there's no point in flushing turds because you know you're going to be visiting the porcelain throne again in the next 30-45 minutes easy.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Katatonia

There was plenty of room left on the BD-50 to include two lossless tracks, so it makes no sense why they chose to do it that way.

The Dark Force Blu-ray uses 42,886,369,280 bytes, which is a pretty average amount of space used for a BD50. Not like there was only 32GB used or something.

In this case it doesn't really matter anyway. The soundtracks won't benefit from lossless encoding, its not like you are going to hear more finely detailed mono hiss and pops in the lossless track.

[Katatonia]

Originally Posted by Ruined

The Dark Force Blu-ray uses 42,886,369,280 bytes, which is a pretty average amount of space used for a BD50. Not like there was only 32GB used or something.

In this case it doesn't really matter anyway. The soundtracks won't benefit from lossless encoding, its not like you are going to hear more finely detailed mono hiss and pops in the lossless track.

...which still means there was plenty of space left for an additional lossless track. A lossless track added for an 85-minute movie isn't going to take up a huge chunk of extra disc space.

It's still inferior to the Code Red encode, that can't be denied. Whether your ears can actually "hear" more or not or the myriad of receivers/speakers/set-ups out there is open to debate, but it's still a lossy downgrade from an original lossless/uncompressed source.

I don't see why you feel like making excuses for these yahoos?

[The Great Owl]

I don't have the stand-alone Code Red Blu-ray for comparison, but I was quite pleased with the presentation of The Eerie Midnight Horror Show on the Dark Force double-feature disc.

That film redeems the existence of the double-feature, quite frankly.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Katatonia

...which still means there was plenty of space left for an additional lossless track. A lossless track added for an 85-minute movie isn't going to take up a huge chunk of extra disc space.

It's still inferior to the Code Red encode, that can't be denied. Whether your ears can actually "hear" more or not or the myriad of receivers/speakers/set-ups out there is open to debate, but it's still a lossy downgrade from an original lossless/uncompressed source.

I don't see why you feel like making excuses for these yahoos?

DD2.0 192kbps was good enough for high fidelity Hollywood blockbusters on DVD for years it's well beyond good enough for a beat up/damaged, low fidelity, constrained frequency range mono grindhouse track, and there is no way lossless encoding would make any audible difference at all given the source limitations. Garbage in, garbage out, and lossless isn't going to change that. It's not a downgrade if it sounds the same, unless you cherish the placebo effect.

Not making excuses simply being realistic it makes more sense to pay $25 for the DF double feature and get two movies than $30-$40 (or even same price) for the single movie with exactly the same A/V quality on eBay (unless you want the single's cover art or something) .

I actually took the time to compare with the disc to respond with firsthand knowledge to the poster instead of blindly bashing this label and its output, which is more that can be said for many in this thread.

[NoirFan]

Originally Posted by Katatonia

I don't see why you feel like making excuses for these yahoos?

For the same reason he defends Raro's upconverting and Retromedia's macroblocking, while simultaneously spending hundreds of posts complaining about Arrow's packaging, pricing, subtitling, and framing:

In Internet slang, a troll (/troʊl, trɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting quarrels or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion,[3] often for the troll's amusement.

Now ask yourselves, is there a single word of that definition that doesn't apply to him? He even 'thanks' posts that are critical of him, which is textbook forum trolling. He and Dark Force deserve each other, but there's no reason the rest of us should have to put up with it.

[Ruined]

Ask yourselves, what do you call someone who has declared zero continued interest in a label or buying their product yet continues to post in the thread and repeatedly bash it and those interested in it?

The above referenced "discord" by NoirFan is experienced by those who simply can't handle an opinion different than their own.

[The Great Owl]

I'm not thrilled about Dark Force Entertainment (except for their fast shipping), and I'm underwhelmed by the technical presentations of their output, but I still buy Offerings, The House that Vanished, and, soon, Kill or Be Killed, simply because the only viable alternatives are watching YouTube videos or a blank television screen.

Sometimes, the best available home video presentation is the best available home video presentation. and I'm not holding my breath for superior editions of these titles from another studio.

[AlexIlDottore]

Originally Posted by mja345

I gotta say that's pretty damn funny that you assumed they lived in the same house.

Originally Posted by noirjunkie

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: this situation would make for a fantastic sitcom.

Here you go guys, a classic episode from one of the best UK comedies ever

Steptoe and Son - Divided we Stand (1972)

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x68hcuh

[AlexIlDottore]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

I'm not thrilled about Dark Force Entertainment (except for their fast shipping), and I'm underwhelmed by the technical presentations of their output, but I still buy Offerings, The House that Vanished, and, soon, Kill or Be Killed, simply because the only viable alternatives are watching YouTube videos or a blank television screen.

Sometimes, the best available home video presentation is the best available home video presentation. and I'm not holding my breath for superior editions of these titles from another studio.

Hasn't House been basically confirmed as being a bootleg? Also we know that it's coming from an overseas label.

I know, I know, you won't go multiregion. It's a shame when people will defend a bootleg.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by AlexIlDottore

Hasn't House been basically confirmed as being a bootleg?

The "insiders" that strongly "confirmed" it own directly competing labels that release same subgenre of movies. That is a pretty large conflict of interest IMO.

Unless you are privy to DFs licensing agreements or lack thereof, it is all speculation.

Also we know that it's coming from an overseas label.

Is there a link to the official announcement you could provide? I don't see anything in the Blu-ray.com database.

[AlexIlDottore]

Before Ruined comes in:

Originally Posted by Ruined

DARK FORCE ENTERTAINMENT

The House That Vanished / Eerie Midnight Horror Show Double Feature

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-H...lu-ray/201496/


The label verified the title is now out of print, however SCREENARCHIVES still has some remaining copies to sell through.

Originally Posted by AlexIlDottore

It's a bootleg anyway. This is confirmed thanks to at least two industry insiders speaking up.

My above quote was doctored by Ruined to read

"it's a bootleg anyway. This is speculated by at least two directly competing labels speaking up."

He then posted

Originally Posted by Ruined

FTFY, I am sure there is zero conflict of interest in their assessment. [emoji6]

Originally Posted by AlexIlDottore

Wow. You'll defend a bootleg. Shameful. They both basically said that the rightsholder is a nightmare to deal with, and that on official release is coming outside of the US. To try and defend this bootleg and put down their comments, you'll put it down to a conflict of interest.

Pathetic.

[Ruined]

Licensing can be complex. Take a look at the US release of Pit Stop.

Do you consider the Arrow version a bootleg since it was unauthorized by Roger Corman?

[AlexIlDottore]

Originally Posted by Ruined

The "insiders" that strongly "confirmed" it own directly competing labels that release same subgenre of movies. That is a pretty large conflict of interest IMO.

Unless you are privy to DFs licensing agreements or lack thereof, it is all speculation.



Is there a link to the official announcement you could provide? I don't see anything in the Blu-ray.com database.

You are a joke, Ruined. I guess Walt is talking crap?

Originally Posted by ScorpionReleasing

I know who really owns this film and I do know that a couple of well-respected genre labels are speaking with them on releasing the correct version for awhile now, I can't say anymore but I could tell you that this disc is not going to be worth anything in a few month

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by AlexIlDottore

You are a joke, Ruined. I guess Walt is talking crap?

Who knows? You can't just ignore the past & current relationship with code red and the probability that other competing labels were likely jockeying for this same title.

Perhaps this title has a complex rights situation and it's not as clear cut as it seems (again : see pit stop US release ). Code Red/DF were clearly comfortable enough with the rights situation to release it and reputable merchants like screen archives are still selling it. Screen archives doesn't sell bootlegs.

Regarding future plans, plenty of releases are planned or attempted to be licensed and never come out. So until something official is announced plans and rumors don't amount to much.

In the meantime this is the only decent quality release of THTV that exist, everything else is VHS sourced.

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by AlexIlDottore

Hasn't House been basically confirmed as being a bootleg? Also we know that it's coming from an overseas label.

I know, I know, you won't go multiregion. It's a shame when people will defend a bootleg.

I'll concede the point here. I probably wouldn't have sprung for this double-feature had I known about the cuts to the movie. Still, it's what we've got on these shores, and the other movie in the double feature is just fine.

[GilaFilms]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Dark Force is most definitely in direct competition with Scorpion Releasing, and even releases the same subgenre of movies. Regardless of CR's relationship with Scorpion, or perhaps because of it, I am sure one could see how CR partnering with Dark Force might not be the easiest of situations for Scorpion to be in given their past and current extensive involvement with CR.



Maybe, maybe not. First of all, having a reduced bitrate does not necessarily mean the disc will look "inferior." This isn't Guardians of the Galaxy being released - Eerie Midnight standalone disc did not have a hollywood blockbuster transfer to begin with, far from it. Even if it has a reduced bitrate it may make absolutely no difference at all due to the source material. Same could be said for audio, a lossless encode of a poor/beat up audio master isn't going to sound significantly different than a lossy one.

Secondly, Code Red has in the past used different masters for Double Features vs standalone discs, such as the Devil Times Five DVDs. So until someone actually does an A/B comparsion, whether it looks better, worse, or the same, is nothing more than guesswork.

Here are some screencaps from the 2014 BD (as you can see, a lot of room for high frequency compression): http://www.mondo-digital.com/eeriemidnight.html

Let me queue up my disc and compare to these caps.

You seem to be missing the point. Dark Force is an offshoot of Code Red...it cannot exist without it, as all its transfers and licensed titles (with the exception of DeFalco's own two films) have been made possible by Code Red. Code Red, in turn, is not in competition with Scorpion. When I see Dark Force announce a title that did not come by way of Code Red, nor was directed by DeFalco, then this position will be open to amendment. Also keep in mind that Scorpion had seen the DON'T LOOK IN THE BASEMENT transfer before it was released...these two are brothers who live in the same house. They have their differences, but they know everything that goes on with each other's business. And that's how Scorpion knows that HOUSE THAT VANISHED isn't a legit release. This has been confirmed by Mondo Macabro, who stated it is highly unlikely this could be legit as the rights situation is a mess that is unlikely to be sorted out. There is also no copyright info in the back of Dark Force's blu for the title...only for EERIE MIDNIGHT, yet the Larraz film is not public domain. Take this hand in hand with their use of an edited print for the transfer instead of uncut original elements. Also, Dark Force didn't even realize their print was edited until after customers pointed it out...and didn't even know what their transfer was sourced from (because Code Red did the work)...a reflection of how little they know about their own business. Therefore, the implication that because they are comfortable selling it gives credence to some kind of legality to the release is illogical. As for Code Red being comfortable with their involvement...the lack of legality is why it was given to Dark Force.

[GilaFilms]

Originally Posted by Ruined

So here is a real answer for you since I actually own the disc unlike others that responded and I took the time to compare:

Using this reference screencap @ 38:02 from the Code Red standalone: http://www.mondo-digital.com/eeriemidnight3big.jpg

...there appears zero difference in detail, grain, or compression artifacts between the CR standalone and DF double feature. It basically looks identical in every way to the CR standalone disc. Same master also with same damage in the same places.


The one difference I *did* find is that the CR standalone disc has a lossless DTS-HD 2.0 Mono track while the DF disc has a 192kbps Dolby Digital 2.0 Mono track, this is likely where they got the most bitrate savings to fit the double feature. While I haven't listened to the two A/B, as this movie has typical poor grindhouse audio it is highly unlikely there is any difference there, either.


So in summary, the standalone disc has a technical win on paper with the lossless audio, but in practice it looks the same and very most likely sounds the same due to the poor source material. Given the lower cost of the DF release and extra movie included, the DF double feature is pretty much a no-brainer if you don't have Eerie Midnight.

Unfortunately, you have shown too often a lack of understanding of the finer points of blu-ray reviewing for your word to hold merit. Please provide actual comparison screencaps. And not pics taken using your cellphone.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by GilaFilms

You seem to be missing the point. Dark Force is an offshoot of Code Red...it cannot exist without it, as all its transfers and licensed titles (with the exception of DeFalco's own two films) have been made possible by Code Red. Code Red, in turn, is not in competition with Scorpion. When I see Dark Force announce a title that did not come by way of Code Red, nor was directed by DeFalco, then this position will be open to amendment. Also keep in mind that Scorpion had seen the DON'T LOOK IN THE BASEMENT transfer before it was released...these two are brothers who live in the same house. They have their differences, but they know everything that goes on with each other's business. And that's how Scorpion knows that HOUSE THAT VANISHED isn't a legit release. This has been confirmed by Mondo Macabro, who stated it is highly unlikely this could be legit as the rights situation is a mess that is unlikely to be sorted out. There is also no copyright info in the back of Dark Force's blu for the title...only for EERIE MIDNIGHT, yet the Larraz film is not public domain. Take this hand in hand with their use of an edited print for the transfer instead of uncut original elements. Also, Dark Force didn't even realize their print was edited until after customers pointed it out...and didn't even know what their transfer was sourced from (because Code Red did the work)...a reflection of how little they know about their own business. Therefore, the implication that because they are comfortable selling it gives credence to some kind of legality to the release is illogical. As for Code Red being comfortable with their involvement...the lack of legality is why it was given to Dark Force.

This post started out good but ventured into assumptions and conspiracy theories by the end.

Code red is partnered with DF for releasing and selling films (I don't see how this can be a good thing for Scorpion or Ronin BTW, as it takes licenses and sales away from both respectively) and they felt comfortable enough with the rights situation to release it, screen archives feels comfortable enough to sell it (they don't sell bootlegs). As CR are partners of DF and provided the title , if DF gets in deep shit so will CR.

Sometimes rights situations are very murky, in the US we even had two releases of Pit Stop, each accusing the other of being unauthorized. Perhaps the labels in direct business competition with DF/CR are not aware of how DF/CR feels they are in the clear releasing this title? Perhaps they also wanted to release this title, too? There are plenty of possibilities and unless DF/CR gets sued and loses we won't know the truth.

Meanwhile this remains by far the best quality release of this title currently and the only one that actually looks like film. At some point a better release may (or may not) be announced, but we have not reached that point.

[GilaFilms]

Originally Posted by Ruined

This post started out good but ventured into assumptions and conspiracy theories by the end.

Code red is partnered with DF for releasing and selling films (I don't see how this can be a good thing for Scorpion or Ronin BTW, as it takes licenses and sales away from both respectively) and they felt comfortable enough with the rights situation to release it, screen archives feels comfortable enough to sell it (they don't sell bootlegs). As CR are partners of DF and provided the title , if DF gets in deep shit so will CR.

Sometimes rights situations are very murky, in the US we even had two releases of Pit Stop, each accusing the other of being unauthorized. Perhaps the labels in direct business competition with DF/CR are not aware of how DF/CR feels they are in the clear releasing this title? Perhaps they also wanted to release this title, too? There are plenty of possibilities and unless DF/CR gets sued and loses we won't know the truth.

Meanwhile this remains by far the best quality release of this title currently and the only one that actually looks like film. At some point a better release may (or may not) be announced, but we have not reached that point.

If you truly believe Code Red is in the clear with the legality of the release, try to inquire into its legal status with a post on their Facebook page....