Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[Angel Eyes]

The sad thing about George is that he is a revisionist and always falls back on the same claim "thats not the way I wanted it", even though he has forgotten how much he has lied/said in the past and now can't even keep his stories straight. In Starlog Magazine back in 78 he said that Han was a pirate and did kill Greedo in cold blood.

And that's not bashing Lucas that is just fact.

[legendarymatt92]

Originally Posted by Angel Eyes

The sad thing about George is that he is a revisionist and always falls back on the same claim "thats not the way I wanted it", even though he has forgotten how much he has lied/said in the past and now can't even keep his stories straight. In Starlog Magazine back in 78 he said that Han was a pirate and did kill Greedo in cold blood.

And that's not bashing Lucas that is just fact.

I don't want it to seem like I'm bashing Lucas either - I think he's brilliant and, in Star Wars, has created one of the most unique and cherished series that will ever be made. He is a great businessman (as demonstrated by selling Lucasfilm and making so much money from the merchandising aspect of Star Wars) and a good director (although, unfortunately, not enough of that shone through in the prequels). He's also probably one of the most, if not the most, creative people to have worked within Hollywood in the last 40 years.

And, with all that said, he has made some downright stupid decisions and mistakes centred around the Star Wars saga that have really created a hateful fanbase. I wish he hadn't of made the changes because I, personally, didn't think the majority of them were needed -- plus, with his well-known stance against tampering with classic cinema, you'd think that he wouldn't have even entertained the thought. The real moment came, though, when he accused the fans of ruining Star Wars; the multitude of changes, the angry backlash, the lies, had all built to a head and the only way Lucas thought he could justify it any more was to blame the fans. Yes, they're whiny and annoying, but you can't just start shouting at the very people who have made you a success, made you a prominent figure within Hollywood. That's where his real downfall began and that's one of the many reasons I believe Lucas decided to sell his life-work and move on.

[Angel Eyes]

Originally Posted by legendarymatt92

I don't want it to seem like I'm bashing Lucas either - I think he's brilliant and, in Star Wars, has created one of the most unique and cherished series that will ever be made. He is a great businessman (as demonstrated by selling Lucasfilm and making so much money from the merchandising aspect of Star Wars) and a good director (although, unfortunately, not enough of that shone through in the prequels). He's also probably one of the most, if not the most, creative people to have worked within Hollywood in the last 40 years.

And, with all that said, he has made some downright stupid decisions and mistakes centred around the Star Wars saga that have really created a hateful fanbase. I wish he hadn't of made the changes because I, personally, didn't think the majority of them were needed -- plus, with his well-known stance against tampering with classic cinema, you'd think that he wouldn't have even entertained the thought. The real moment came, though, when he accused the fans of ruining Star Wars; the multitude of changes, the angry backlash, the lies, had all built to a head and the only way Lucas thought he could justify it any more was to blame the fans. Yes, they're whiny and annoying, but you can't just start shouting at the very people who have made you a success, made you a prominent figure within Hollywood. That's where his real downfall began and that's one of the many reasons I believe Lucas decided to sell his life-work and move on.

I totally agree, no matter what anyone thinks he is the one that created this mess. Even his own peers/friends in the industry think he was dead wrong in how he went about everything and its sad where the fanbase has ended up. Hopefully Disney will recognize this and at least try to get back on track as much as possible by doing a few things.

[tommyboy81]

Someone sent this to me. Thought it was pretty funny since everyone keeps talking about the next director. But I know this is just a friendly conversation.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by Angel Eyes

I totally agree, no matter what anyone thinks he is the one that created this mess. Even his own peers/friends in the industry think he was dead wrong in how he went about everything and its sad where the fanbase has ended up. Hopefully Disney will recognize this and at least try to get back on track as much as possible by doing a few things.

I don't think it's a mess. I'm quite happy with the way things turned out. Could they have been better...you can say that about anything on the planet.

Also who were the "peers/friends" that think he was "dead wrong"? I'd be interested to see the source(s) that have that quote.

[Angel Eyes]

Originally Posted by rickah88

I don't think it's a mess. I'm quite happy with the way things turned out. Could they have been better...you can say that about anything on the planet.

Also who were the "peers/friends" that think he was "dead wrong"? I'd be interested to see the source(s) that have that quote.

Now I know you have seen the quotes that Spielberg, Cameron, Jackson and Scott have all said that he was wrong in the way that the "OT" has been handled. Everyone in the SW threads have seen the quotes before. That is what I was alluding to, it's nothing new. The fanbase situation is a horrific mess with fans pited against each other on every messageboard that I have ever seen.

[legendarymatt92]

Originally Posted by rickah88

I don't think it's a mess. I'm quite happy with the way things turned out. Could they have been better...you can say that about anything on the planet.

Also who were the "peers/friends" that think he was "dead wrong"? I'd be interested to see the source(s) that have that quote.

I'd say it was a mess - I'm happy with how it's turned out, like you, but Lucas definitely dealt with some things in the wrong way. The whole saga nowhere near fits together as smoothly as it should have (in the writing, I mean) and that is mostly the fault of the prequels. Themes and sub-plots just weren't tied up as nicely as they could and should have been, in my opinion. I know others will think differently, so it might just be me that thinks that.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by Angel Eyes

Now I know you have seen the quotes that Spielberg, Cameron, Jackson and Scott have all said that he was wrong in the way that the "OT" has been handled. Everyone in the SW threads have seen the quotes before. That is what I was alluding to, it's nothing new. The fanbase situation is a horrific mess with fans pited against each other on every messageboard that I have ever seen.

No I have not seen them, as you described them in your previous message. Please feel free to post any/all confirmed sources. Thanks.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by legendarymatt92

I'd say it was a mess - I'm happy with how it's turned out, like you, but Lucas definitely dealt with some things in the wrong way. The whole saga nowhere near fits together as smoothly as it should have (in the writing, I mean) and that is mostly the fault of the prequels. Themes and sub-plots just weren't tied up as nicely as they could and should have been, in my opinion. I know others will think differently, so it might just be me that thinks that.

I'm sure people are going to find fault in the upcoming Disnet releases. Some people are just never happy when it comes to Star Wars. I always found it perplexing!

[MCT]

Originally Posted by rickah88

I'm sure people are going to find fault in the upcoming Disnet releases. Some people are just never happy when it comes to Star Wars.

what a weak excuse. I loved KOTOR. KOTOR 2. The Force Unleashed. The unaltered OT. The Clone Wars (Tavarskys version and the current running series, for the most part). Funny how people can like a lot about SW but the moment they say they didnt like the Crapquels, they "dont really like SW" or "youre never satisfied". Come on. What a crock.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Duffy12

Or....a third option-


3) A second unit director handled that scene. We have all seen from Star Wars documentaries that Lucas was way overworked during it's filming(He had to go to the hospital at one point due to all the stress involved in it's production).

So maybe he had someone else handle that particular scene but he never gave them credit for it. Kinda like Alan Dean Foster's ghost writing of the Star Wars movie novel.

.

Even if the 2nd unit directed that scene (unlikely, since the man who played Greedo spoke about Lucas directing it), that has nothing to do with the editing. It's not like the Greedo scene was shot and edited in-camera like a home movie.

[legendarymatt92]

Originally Posted by rickah88

I'm sure people are going to find fault in the upcoming Disnet releases. Some people are just never happy when it comes to Star Wars. I always found it perplexing!

People will find an excuse to simply be different from the crowd, whatever the film or series -- there's been a lot of "everyone loves Nolan's Batman but I hate it" on the Internet, and it's mainly from people who just want to go against the mainstream because that makes them cool (obviously some people won't have liked that particular series for actual reasons, though). Especially with the Internet, people can (fairly anonymously) hate on films and directors just to get a rise out of others.

Originally Posted by MCT

what a weak excuse. I loved KOTOR. KOTOR 2. The Force Unleashed. The unaltered OT. The Clone Wars (Tavarskys version and the current running series, for the most part). Funny how people can like a lot about SW but the moment they say they didnt like the Crapquels, they "dont really like SW" or "youre never satisfied". Come on. What a crock.

I've never seen The Clone Wars but I've heard that it's very good, so I'll try to check it out at some point. I think, purely on entertainment purposes, the prequels (or "crapquels", as you put it ) are great, although I really do have issue with the writing. Whether that means, in other people's eyes, I can't be a "true" Star Wars fan or not doesn't bother me -- I know I love Star Wars but I also know that I can find fault with it.

[legendarymatt92]

Originally Posted by ernest rister

even if the 2nd unit directed that scene (unlikely, since the man who played greedo spoke about lucas directing it), that has nothing to do with the editing. It's not like the greedo scene was shot and edited in-camera like a home movie.

+100

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by legendarymatt92

People will find an excuse to simply be different from the crowd, whatever the film or series -- there's been a lot of "everyone loves Nolan's Batman but I hate it" on the Internet, and it's mainly from people who just want to go against the mainstream because that makes them cool (obviously some people won't have liked that particular series for actual reasons, though). Especially with the Internet, people can (fairly anonymously) hate on films and directors just to get a rise out of others.

Yes.
See: Thread, Star Wars.

[Duffy12]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Even if the 2nd unit directed that scene (unlikely, since the man who played Greedo spoke about Lucas directing it), that has nothing to do with the editing. It's not like the Greedo scene was shot and edited in-camera like a home movie.

Yea, I do agree. I was just trying to find the reason that there was no pyro squib from Greedo's errant missed blaster bolt hitting the wall behind Solo from the original cut.


So I guess we are back to Lucas being a bold face liar.

And here is a pic of Lucas directing the scene-

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Duffy12

Yea, I do agree. I was just trying to find the reason that there was no pyro squib from Greedo's errant missed blaster bolt hitting the wall behind Solo from the original cut.

What I was getting at, was that if they had filmed Greedo firing first, there would have been takes to that effect - but we know they don't exist for one important reason. If they did, Lucas wouldn't have had to digitally create the shot 20 years later, he would have just used one of the alternate takes.

Common sense, really.

What was on the page is what wound up on the stage, and in the editing room.

I'm curious what sort of power Disney has when it comes time to release these films after the distribution rights expire in 2020, and the almost certain buyout of distribution rights of Episode IV from 2oth Century. Is Disney obligated to stick with the latest revisions on the Blu-Ray, or will they sanction even more revisions, or even include the revisions but remove the Greedo scene? Guess we'll find out in about eight years.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

What I was getting at, was that if they had filmed Greedo firing first, there would have been takes to that effect - but we know they don't exist for one important reason. If they did, Lucas wouldn't have had to digitally create the shot 20 years later, he would have just used one of the alternate takes.

Common sense, really.

What was on the page is what wound up on the stage, and in the editing room.

I'm curious what sort of power Disney has when it comes time to release these films after the distribution rights expire in 2020, and the almost certain buyout of distribution rights of Episode IV from 2oth Century. Is Disney obligated to stick with the latest revisions on the Blu-Ray, or will they sanction even more revisions, or even include the revisions but remove the Greedo scene? Guess we'll find out in about eight years.

I thought Disney can do whatever they want to the film whenever they want. Disney could throw Mickey Mouse in the Cantina and have him fire first, or second, or third, if they so desired. Then Fox would distribute it, unless a deal were reached, then Fox would be out of the loop sooner rather than later. I don't think Fox has any say in creative aspects of the films.

[Falaskan]

Originally Posted by legendarymatt92

People will find an excuse to simply be different from the crowd, whatever the film or series -- there's been a lot of "everyone loves Nolan's Batman but I hate it" on the Internet, and it's mainly from people who just want to go against the mainstream because that makes them cool (obviously some people won't have liked that particular series for actual reasons, though). Especially with the Internet, people can (fairly anonymously) hate on films and directors just to get a rise out of others.

Best post of the year. You can see this evident because many of the posts are lemming types of posts. One says they love it and then 5 follow and say the same. Then one says they hate it, and 5 following in agreement.

[blonde_devil]

oh my god, the new movie isn't even written yet and this is turning into another thread about how Lucas ruined Star Wars.

folks, take a break. you have at least a year before we get any decent concrete news about the new movie. relax and let the anticipation build like it did before the internet was around. as for the movies already done, get over it. they are what they are for better or worse. if you don't like Episodes 1-3, don't watch them. if you don't like what he did to Episodes 4-6, watch the original versions(quit complaining about the poor quality of the original versions too -they are better than nothing and that is how they looked when released). and enough with bashing Lucas, it is getting tired. but please, look at this as an opportunity to take Star Wars in a new and exciting direction and quit complaining about things that have already happened. this is why I get fed up reading threads like this and quit getting involved- no news about the new movies, just people complaining once again about the old ones.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by rickah88

I thought Disney can do whatever they want to the film whenever they want. Disney could throw Mickey Mouse in the Cantina and have him fire first, or second, or third, if they so desired. Then Fox would distribute it, unless a deal were reached, then Fox would be out of the loop sooner rather than later. I don't think Fox has any say in creative aspects of the films.

I'm just curious what assurances were given to Mr. Lucas along these lines. As I mentioned, we'll see.