Three years ago, I started this thread, dreading the day when the time to witness new STAR WARS under the direction of Disney and new management at Lucasfilm would come. For three years, my emotions about what this would mean for my beloved Saga and what this would mean for the future of STAR WARS swung so wildly back and forth, that I'm surprised that I didn't have a serious case of whiplash.
In the end, the constant discussions with my 7 year-old son swayed me to stop being a grumpy jackass and take him to the movie theatre to witness his very first STAR WARS film in the theatre. It was a family affair because, in the end, that is the true essence of saga that George Lucas created. Two kids and a wife in tow and we sat down to witness the 7th episode of STAR WARS. When it ended, I looked at my eldest and I could immediately tell that he loved the film. I'm not sure if he had the same eureka moment that many had in 1977 but I knew that STAR WARS would forever be a constant in his life.
Shame that his grumpy ass father didn't feel the same way.
Like the fascinating Kylo Ren, I'm fully and completely torn between two sets of emotions. In truth, I understand why Disney threw out George Lucas' outlines and went their own way. More than anything, in the eyes of those in charge, this film had to heal an entire fanbase and show the way forward. It is my personal opinion that that type of fan pandering will not work out in the long run. But the rebuttal to that is that the way in which George Lucas created the Prequel Trilogy, on his own terms, didn't win him any favors either. So, Disney and Lucasfilm are between a rock and a hard place. In the end, they went the safest route possible, under the direction of a person who was tailor made to make STAR WARS films.
I just didn't think he'd LITERALLY remake/remix/fan service the entire Original Trilogy in one outing.
JJ Abrams was given the keys to the kingdom and the best he could do was to go beat for beat, note for note, of the major highlights of the Original Trilogy. He got away with remaking A NEW HOPE and part of EMPIRE STRIKES BACK with his STAR TREK '09 simply because it was in a complete different universe with a complete different set of characters. And while Lucas has often talked about the rhythmic nature of the six films being purposeful, he never outright remade one of his own films. This film confirmed finally and fully what I knew JJ Abrams was but was hoping that he wouldn't be...he's a tracer. Standing on the shoulders of giants and ultimately taking his own pencil and just going over the same shape but with a different color. This is a film where JJ had over 200 million dollars of Disney's money and he literally went to the exact same locations found in the Original Trilogy but just changed the names and maybe added a bit here and there. George Lucas, with 315 million dollars of his own money across three films, took us to at minimum 12 different locations in the Prequels that expanded the scope and scale of what a STAR WARS world/universe could be. George Lucas is a visionary. JJ Abrams is not. And I hate saying that because JJ Abrams is a good director.
While I reject this celebration, remix film that gets the faithful back in love with STAR WARS again after the "supposedly" hated Prequel Trilogy, the STAR WARS fan deep down in me is so deeply intrigued by two aspects that I am generally curious about where Rian Johnson goes next.
Kylo Ren and Rey. It is not certain but I'm willing to bet serious money that these two characters, however changed, are what remains of George Lucas' original outlines for the Sequel Trilogy. And funny enough, these two characters are the most like George Lucas' STAR WARS.
Kylo Ren is an astonishing character because he embodies what I think many fans wanted out of Anakin in the Prequels which is the absolute antithesis of George Lucas' overall thesis in the Prequels. And yet, he's fascinating because unlike Anakin, he sought out the Dark Side of the Force which is counter to him as a person. We see it time and time again through out the film. He is not Kylo Ren, this person he's made himself out to be. But, he can't shake the mythic idea of his grandfather and so he chooses this path because he wants to be his grandfather. This is a George Lucas character.
And then there's Rey, a character is fully and completely Anakin, Padme, and Luke rolled up into one. At end of this thing, it would not shock me one bit if she's considered not only the greatest Jedi but the greatest Skywalker. Rey is Anakin Skywalker in that she's a prodigy of the Force. I do not agree with the criticism that Rey's abilities just manifest out of nowhere. It is clear that she has some deep repressed discipline with the ways of the Force and the Jedi. Like with Anakin being the only human who could podrace at 9 years old, Rey's ability have everything to do with how in tuned she is with the Force. It just hasn't been trained properly.
But the most fascinating aspect of these two is the collision course they're set upon. Not between themselves which is a given. The collision course I'm referring to is pitting brother vs sister, with Rey and Kylo Ren in the middle. That is George Lucas at his most mythic when it comes to storytelling.
When the credits rolled, I did not like the film that much, if at all, but I did like where the film leaves the story threads. There are other, detailed aspects of the filmmaking that I think JJ gets horribly wrong when it comes to being apart of the STAR WARS lexicon of filmmaking but in the end, JJ had a serious job to do. For Disney and Lucasfilm, he had to unify a fanbase that has lived on the nostalgia on how they felt with the Original Trilogy. And based on the reception, he has succeeded. STAR WARS, for the majority, is back.
I remain on the outside, looking in...keeping a careful eye on Rey and Kylo Ren and their coming clash between the Dark Side and the Light Side of the Force.
You took the words right out of my mouth. Exactly how I feel!
I didn't feel that way at all. I think J.J hit on certain things of all the originals. He even went out of his way to make the film look like the originals. He went with actors who didn't have a big name ,but do now,Again like the new hope. This movie is a total set up for things to come, where Lucas didn't know at the time if there would be another Star Wars. So many questions were answered in the new Hope. I like what J.J did leaving many questions to be answered with the next 2 films. And the next one is only a year and a half away to find out. And the new director for the ep 8 will knock it out of the park,because he is a much better director then J.J. Look guys Kathleen Kennedy is one of the smartest Women in hollywood, that's why George wanted her to run Lucas films . Star Wars is in good hands with people who love SW. EP8 will be 10 times better than 7 . In fact they start shooting in Jan 2016. Also keep in mind this new SW was made not only for fans but also trying get new fans aboard. All is good
Three years ago, I started this thread, dreading the day when the time to witness new STAR WARS under the direction of Disney and new management at Lucasfilm would come. For three years, my emotions about what this would mean for my beloved Saga and what this would mean for the future of STAR WARS swung so wildly back and forth, that I'm surprised that I didn't have a serious case of whiplash.
In the end, the constant discussions with my 7 year-old son swayed me to stop being a grumpy jackass and take him to the movie theatre to witness his very first STAR WARS film in the theatre. It was a family affair because, in the end, that is the true essence of saga that George Lucas created. Two kids and a wife in tow and we sat down to witness the 7th episode of STAR WARS. When it ended, I looked at my eldest and I could immediately tell that he loved the film. I'm not sure if he had the same eureka moment that many had in 1977 but I knew that STAR WARS would forever be a constant in his life.
Shame that his grumpy ass father didn't feel the same way.
Like the fascinating Kylo Ren, I'm fully and completely torn between two sets of emotions. In truth, I understand why Disney threw out George Lucas' outlines and went their own way. More than anything, in the eyes of those in charge, this film had to heal an entire fanbase and show the way forward. It is my personal opinion that that type of fan pandering will not work out in the long run. But the rebuttal to that is that the way in which George Lucas created the Prequel Trilogy, on his own terms, didn't win him any favors either. So, Disney and Lucasfilm are between a rock and a hard place. In the end, they went the safest route possible, under the direction of a person who was tailor made to make STAR WARS films.
I just didn't think he'd LITERALLY remake/remix/fan service the entire Original Trilogy in one outing.
JJ Abrams was given the keys to the kingdom and the best he could do was to go beat for beat, note for note, of the major highlights of the Original Trilogy. He got away with remaking A NEW HOPE and part of EMPIRE STRIKES BACK with his STAR TREK '09 simply because it was in a complete different universe with a complete different set of characters. And while Lucas has often talked about the rhythmic nature of the six films being purposeful, he never outright remade one of his own films. This film confirmed finally and fully what I knew JJ Abrams was but was hoping that he wouldn't be...he's a tracer. Standing on the shoulders of giants and ultimately taking his own pencil and just going over the same shape but with a different color. This is a film where JJ had over 200 million dollars of Disney's money and he literally went to the exact same locations found in the Original Trilogy but just changed the names and maybe added a bit here and there. George Lucas, with 315 million dollars of his own money across three films, took us to at minimum 12 different locations in the Prequels that expanded the scope and scale of what a STAR WARS world/universe could be. George Lucas is a visionary. JJ Abrams is not. And I hate saying that because JJ Abrams is a good director.
While I reject this celebration, remix film that gets the faithful back in love with STAR WARS again after the "supposedly" hated Prequel Trilogy, the STAR WARS fan deep down in me is so deeply intrigued by two aspects that I am generally curious about where Rian Johnson goes next.
Kylo Ren and Rey. It is not certain but I'm willing to bet serious money that these two characters, however changed, are what remains of George Lucas' original outlines for the Sequel Trilogy. And funny enough, these two characters are the most like George Lucas' STAR WARS.
Kylo Ren is an astonishing character because he embodies what I think many fans wanted out of Anakin in the Prequels which is the absolute antithesis of George Lucas' overall thesis in the Prequels. And yet, he's fascinating because unlike Anakin, he sought out the Dark Side of the Force which is counter to him as a person. We see it time and time again through out the film. He is not Kylo Ren, this person he's made himself out to be. But, he can't shake the mythic idea of his grandfather and so he chooses this path because he wants to be his grandfather. This is a George Lucas character.
And then there's Rey, a character is fully and completely Anakin, Padme, and Luke rolled up into one. At end of this thing, it would not shock me one bit if she's considered not only the greatest Jedi but the greatest Skywalker. Rey is Anakin Skywalker in that she's a prodigy of the Force. I do not agree with the criticism that Rey's abilities just manifest out of nowhere. It is clear that she has some deep repressed discipline with the ways of the Force and the Jedi. Like with Anakin being the only human who could podrace at 9 years old, Rey's ability have everything to do with how in tuned she is with the Force. It just hasn't been trained properly.
But the most fascinating aspect of these two is the collision course they're set upon. Not between themselves which is a given. The collision course I'm referring to is pitting brother vs sister, with Rey and Kylo Ren in the middle. That is George Lucas at his most mythic when it comes to storytelling.
When the credits rolled, I did not like the film that much, if at all, but I did like where the film leaves the story threads. There are other, detailed aspects of the filmmaking that I think JJ gets horribly wrong when it comes to being apart of the STAR WARS lexicon of filmmaking but in the end, JJ had a serious job to do. For Disney and Lucasfilm, he had to unify a fanbase that has lived on the nostalgia on how they felt with the Original Trilogy. And based on the reception, he has succeeded. STAR WARS, for the majority, is back.
I remain on the outside, looking in...keeping a careful eye on Rey and Kylo Ren and their coming clash between the Dark Side and the Light Side of the Force.
Sorry for the rant.
Rian Johnson will crush this next film , he is no tracer as you put it. He is 10 times better than J.J as a director with LOOPER and a few more I can't think of at the moment. I think they will do things no one has dared to do with SW before. Maybe Ray turns to the dark side near the end of the film. I mean who knows, but with Rian directing and J.J producing, win win .
"Did you see the new Mad Max movie?"
"Yeah, it was great! Reminded me so much of the last half hour of The Road Warrior!"
"Did you see the new James Bond movie?"
"Yeah, it was great! All the things I look for in a Bond movie!"
"Did you see the new Rocky movie?"
"Yeah, it was great! I love those movies! Underdog always comes out on top, or at least beats the crap out of the bad guy in the last round!"
"Did you see the Star Wars prequels?"
"Yeah, they were great! And I read this huge blog post about how smart they are because they rhyme and repeat elements from the other Star Wars movies!"
"Did you see the new Star Wars movie?"
"Yeah, it was okay, but it was too similar to the others."
You hit the nail on the head. Franchises - and entire genres - tend to be very formulaic, with a lot of repetition, the same basic plots and story beats being rehashed over and over. When you go see a western, superhero, slasher or epic fantasy film you know what character archetypes you're getting and what's going to happen.
Star Wars is no exception to this, in fact it's a particularly good example of it. Lucas talked at length about how he made them "rhyme"/mirror each other and his biggest fans have admired and defended this aspect of the movies for years. Return of the Jedi and The Phantom Menace especially were basically remakes/remixes of A New Hope too, but all of a sudden it's a problem.
Spoiler alert, Episode VIII probably won't be all that groundbreaking either, if Episode VII and the last two ST films are any indication.
What do you mean by that? JJ isn't directing Episode VIII. Rian Johnson is. So at least it will be most like Looper or the two Br Ba episodes he's directed. Which means more characterization and minimal story telling.
What do you mean by that? JJ isn't directing Episode VIII. Rian Johnson is. So at least it will be most like Looper or the two Br Ba episodes he's directed. Which means more characterization and minimal story telling.
Sounds good to me, will have to check out Looper now.
Now. Here's a big question. Knowing that George at one point wanted to make Episode VII before selling LucasFilm...do you think his version would have been as good or well received or do you think he did the right thing to sell LucasFilm first and allow them to do what they did with Episode VII?
I don't think it would have been well-received at all, as George Lucas could do no right anymore.
First and foremost because George Lucas never wanted to tell as story he didn't want tell, in a way he didn't want to tell it in....
He just wanted to do what HE liked.
I think it was a very good idea of him to sell everything, and free himself of those shackles.
Now the UOT fans can finally have wanted they have desired for so many years. Apparently they got it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickDee
i dont because it would be full of lines like how terrible sand is.
How you haven't been banned yet is beyond me.
You seriously do nothing but attack the prequels, and therefore provoke a response. What a sad person you must be.
Three years ago, I started this thread, dreading the day when the time to witness new STAR WARS under the direction of Disney and new management at Lucasfilm would come. For three years, my emotions about what this would mean for my beloved Saga and what this would mean for the future of STAR WARS swung so wildly back and forth, that I'm surprised that I didn't have a serious case of whiplash.
In the end, the constant discussions with my 7 year-old son swayed me to stop being a grumpy jackass and take him to the movie theatre to witness his very first STAR WARS film in the theatre. It was a family affair because, in the end, that is the true essence of saga that George Lucas created. Two kids and a wife in tow and we sat down to witness the 7th episode of STAR WARS. When it ended, I looked at my eldest and I could immediately tell that he loved the film. I'm not sure if he had the same eureka moment that many had in 1977 but I knew that STAR WARS would forever be a constant in his life.
Shame that his grumpy ass father didn't feel the same way.
Like the fascinating Kylo Ren, I'm fully and completely torn between two sets of emotions. In truth, I understand why Disney threw out George Lucas' outlines and went their own way. More than anything, in the eyes of those in charge, this film had to heal an entire fanbase and show the way forward. It is my personal opinion that that type of fan pandering will not work out in the long run. But the rebuttal to that is that the way in which George Lucas created the Prequel Trilogy, on his own terms, didn't win him any favors either. So, Disney and Lucasfilm are between a rock and a hard place. In the end, they went the safest route possible, under the direction of a person who was tailor made to make STAR WARS films.
I just didn't think he'd LITERALLY remake/remix/fan service the entire Original Trilogy in one outing.
JJ Abrams was given the keys to the kingdom and the best he could do was to go beat for beat, note for note, of the major highlights of the Original Trilogy. He got away with remaking A NEW HOPE and part of EMPIRE STRIKES BACK with his STAR TREK '09 simply because it was in a complete different universe with a complete different set of characters. And while Lucas has often talked about the rhythmic nature of the six films being purposeful, he never outright remade one of his own films. This film confirmed finally and fully what I knew JJ Abrams was but was hoping that he wouldn't be...he's a tracer. Standing on the shoulders of giants and ultimately taking his own pencil and just going over the same shape but with a different color. This is a film where JJ had over 200 million dollars of Disney's money and he literally went to the exact same locations found in the Original Trilogy but just changed the names and maybe added a bit here and there. George Lucas, with 315 million dollars of his own money across three films, took us to at minimum 12 different locations in the Prequels that expanded the scope and scale of what a STAR WARS world/universe could be. George Lucas is a visionary. JJ Abrams is not. And I hate saying that because JJ Abrams is a good director.
While I reject this celebration, remix film that gets the faithful back in love with STAR WARS again after the "supposedly" hated Prequel Trilogy, the STAR WARS fan deep down in me is so deeply intrigued by two aspects that I am generally curious about where Rian Johnson goes next.
Kylo Ren and Rey. It is not certain but I'm willing to bet serious money that these two characters, however changed, are what remains of George Lucas' original outlines for the Sequel Trilogy. And funny enough, these two characters are the most like George Lucas' STAR WARS.
Kylo Ren is an astonishing character because he embodies what I think many fans wanted out of Anakin in the Prequels which is the absolute antithesis of George Lucas' overall thesis in the Prequels. And yet, he's fascinating because unlike Anakin, he sought out the Dark Side of the Force which is counter to him as a person. We see it time and time again through out the film. He is not Kylo Ren, this person he's made himself out to be. But, he can't shake the mythic idea of his grandfather and so he chooses this path because he wants to be his grandfather. This is a George Lucas character.
And then there's Rey, a character is fully and completely Anakin, Padme, and Luke rolled up into one. At end of this thing, it would not shock me one bit if she's considered not only the greatest Jedi but the greatest Skywalker. Rey is Anakin Skywalker in that she's a prodigy of the Force. I do not agree with the criticism that Rey's abilities just manifest out of nowhere. It is clear that she has some deep repressed discipline with the ways of the Force and the Jedi. Like with Anakin being the only human who could podrace at 9 years old, Rey's ability have everything to do with how in tuned she is with the Force. It just hasn't been trained properly.
But the most fascinating aspect of these two is the collision course they're set upon. Not between themselves which is a given. The collision course I'm referring to is pitting brother vs sister, with Rey and Kylo Ren in the middle. That is George Lucas at his most mythic when it comes to storytelling.
When the credits rolled, I did not like the film that much, if at all, but I did like where the film leaves the story threads. There are other, detailed aspects of the filmmaking that I think JJ gets horribly wrong when it comes to being apart of the STAR WARS lexicon of filmmaking but in the end, JJ had a serious job to do. For Disney and Lucasfilm, he had to unify a fanbase that has lived on the nostalgia on how they felt with the Original Trilogy. And based on the reception, he has succeeded. STAR WARS, for the majority, is back.
I remain on the outside, looking in...keeping a careful eye on Rey and Kylo Ren and their coming clash between the Dark Side and the Light Side of the Force.
"Did you see the new Mad Max movie?"
"Yeah, it was great! Reminded me so much of the last half hour of The Road Warrior!"
"Did you see the new James Bond movie?"
"Yeah, it was great! All the things I look for in a Bond movie!"
"Did you see the new Rocky movie?"
"Yeah, it was great! I love those movies! Underdog always comes out on top, or at least beats the crap out of the bad guy in the last round!"
"Did you see the Star Wars prequels?"
"Yeah, they were great! And I read this huge blog post about how smart they are because they rhyme and repeat elements from the other Star Wars movies!"
"Did you see the new Star Wars movie?"
"Yeah, it was okay, but it was too similar to the others."
There is formula and there is a remake. The Force Awakens runs closer to a remake. The Phantom Menace does not. Attack of the Clones does not. Revenge of the Sith does not. There are small callbacks and some mirroring, but it does not follow the story of a previous entry beat for beat.
James Bond is a bit different because each film, up until the Craig films, are their own entity and don't relate to previous films, so the formula works with deviations here and there.
Fury Road, aside from being a chase movie, is very different from the previous films, both visually and from a story and subtext standpoint.
I've been wondering the exact same thing about you for a long time now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluyoda
You seriously do nothing but attack the prequels, and therefore provoke a response. What a sad person you must be.
And you do nothing but troll and try to bait people with your obnoxious behavior. I mean seriously, a guy who constantly posts things that sound like they're being written by a kid on a sugar rush and tells people they're close minded and can't understand the brilliance of the prequels if they don't like them has no right to accuse others of being sad people.
Last edited by kamphausd1; 12-21-2015 at 06:07 PM.
I absolutely loved the movie. I think the greatest thing I could say about it was the scope and scale. Having watched the OT over the last 2 days, you can tell how limited they were back then for movie making vs. today. I think that this is where the movie hit a home run... Where the OT was huge in scale to the crowd of the 70s JJ Abrams was able to recreate that in a-way that 1-3 wasn't able to do even with the newer technology [I think it speaks to having a good director running the show].
So I think this movie will draw a whole new generation into the franchise, and yes because of that scope and scale that was felt [at least to me]. It was nostalgic the same way Jurassic World and the completed park showing the scope of the finished product felt comforting.
I think we all need to realize we can't rest on the OT characters to forever play the parts, and the casting was EXCELLENT. They could not have hit more home runs with the cast. I did though not enjoy Adam Driver as Kylo Ren. He came off as a spoiled child, and just wasn't good to me, hopefully he'll leave the mask on forever lol. He was my only Meh about the movie...
Its a home run in my op. It could not have been a better MOVIE, now when this story is complete will I look back and enjoy it more than one set over another... Its hard to say, but at least for the foreseeable future I like the direction of the franchise and am VERY excited.
I do hope they don't continue to kill characters off and I feel like 1 is enough and you can't keep playing that card each movie to hit a nerve with the audience, it'll lose its impact and grow stale.
4.5/5 but I rounded up to perfect.
Bottom line:
The scope and feeling the size of the ships, and planets and total emersion is what made the movie great, and the new characters they couldn't have been better...
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