Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[Packerfan75]

Originally Posted by Walts Ghost

Edit: This about sums it up for me...

To be fair, Luke didn't become a powerful Jedi till his 3rd film. Han had experience as a pilot, mechanic and at shooting. Leia didn't love him till Empire. Anakin wasn't all powerful till his 3rd film. The first real fight he got in, he got his arm chopped off. Rey was a lot more successful in one film.

[Walts Ghost]

Originally Posted by Packerfan75

To be fair, Luke didn't become a powerful Jedi till his 3rd film. Han had experience as a pilot, mechanic and at shooting. Leia didn't love him till Empire. Anakin wasn't all powerful till his 3rd film. The first real fight he got in, he got his arm chopped off. Rey was a lot more successful in one film.

Rey's story picks up farther into her training than Luke's or Anakin's though. That's the difference. That's what people are falling to realize when they complain about what she can do. Her life and upbringing is vastly different as well.

[Packerfan75]

Originally Posted by Walts Ghost

Well, you didn't see everything:

[Show spoiler]Rey is clearly already trained in The Force. That's why she picks things up so easily. But it also helps she's been on a scrapyard for years, having to literally fight for survival. Whatever was left of her training, that she clearly doesn't remember, has been actively used by her to survive on Jakku. As the movie goes, and she finds the lightsaber, we see that it unlocks even more, awakening inside her.

As for not handling a lightsaber, it's safe to say she has, because she was being trained in the ways of the Force, at one time. But even if she hadn't, her skills on Jakku came into play, and her survival instincts kicked in. With Kylo already physically hurt, which continues to go overlooked, and the fact he himself isn't fully trained, of course she stands a chance against him. Not to mention he doesn't actually want to hurt her, he wants to turn her to the Dark Side. All these things come into play in how the things played out, so it's not about being overpowered at all. It's just about narrative beats.

We'll learn a lot more about this I'm sure over the next two movies, but that movie was pretty clear in what it was trying to portray in who and what Rey is, and why she is the way she is.

I don't think there's any clear indication that she was

[Show spoiler]trained. That's all speculation at this point. For all we, the viewer know, she's never known anything of the force. She salvages scrap for food while waiting for her parents that abandoned her. No one ever said she's related to either Luke or Leia or was trained by anyone, though many believe it now by again, speculation. I'm going by the girl I was introduced to and the facts I was given. There was nothing to ever hint that she'd even seen a light saber before. She actually indicated that she only heard stories which is why Han said, it's all true. Being given what we were at this point all we can definitely say is that she has the ability to use the force but nothing else. For someone who seemed to be discovering it herself, she picked up the mind trick and fighting a little too easy and without instruction.

[Walts Ghost]

Originally Posted by Packerfan75

I don't think there's any clear indication that she was

[Show spoiler]trained. That's all speculation at this point. For all we, the viewer know, she's never known anything of the force. She salvages scrap for food while waiting for her parents that abandoned her. No one ever said she's related to either Luke or Leia or was trained by anyone, though many believe it now by again, speculation. I'm going by the girl I was introduced to and the facts I was given. There was nothing to ever hint that she'd even seen a light saber before. She actually indicated that she only heard stories which is why Han said, it's all true. Being given what we were at this point all we can definitely say is that she has the ability to use the force but nothing else. For someone who seemed to be discovering it herself, she picked up the mind trick and fighting a little too easy and without instruction.

[Show spoiler]The force flashes when she touched the lightsaber proved that she had connection to Luke, the temple, and what happened with Kylo. That's how she ended up on Jakku to begin with. The movie shows us that. Luke even looks at her like he knows her at the end, and it's almost a look of "I'm sorry, I let you down. I let you all down." Not to mention the fact that Kylo clearly knows who she is, somehow, in his reaction to the fact that there's a girl on Jakku who is now involved.

If she was being trained, like it was hinted at, then there's a good chance she's soon or knows about lightsabers. But even if she doesn't, the variables of the situation still matter...Which is Kylo is fighting wounded, and he's trying not to hurt her. It's not like she's fighting with skill, she was lashing out like Luke did in Return of the Jedi, letting emotion guide her, which was a problem. Stuff like that can easily mess you up because emotion clouds judgement, which we saw.

The movie paints a fairly clear picture, or at least alludes to a lot. It seemed clear to me.

[SuperFlyHighGuy]

Made it all the way until tonight without getting any spoilers! Came close a few times at work the past few days though, phew.

Admittedly, spent half the film trying not to cry. The nostalgia was strong for sure, but being a kid from '77-'83 and obsessed with SW does that. Very surreal seeing a sequel to a film that I though would never have a sequel (or needed one), 32 years later! But I thought it was wonderful and very well made.

[Show spoiler]I do think it was a loose-remake of SW but more a reimagining and sequel at the same time. Well done in that regard.

. And god dammit it was fun. Intense, emotional, humorous, exciting, nostalgic. All the things the "prequels" failed at for me. But to be fair I think this film was made by my age demographic, for my age demographic. But I don't have kids so don't know the age-range reaction yet.

Saw it in 2D on a huge screen and Atmos, best theater I've ever been in. Seeing it again next week.

[Packerfan75]

Originally Posted by Walts Ghost

[Show spoiler]The force flashes when she touched the lightsaber proved that she had connection to Luke, the temple, and what happened with Kylo. That's how she ended up on Jakku to begin with. The movie shows us that. Luke even looks at her like he knows her at the end, and it's almost a look of "I'm sorry, I let you down. I let you all down." Not to mention the fact that Kylo clearly knows who she is, somehow, in his reaction to the fact that there's a girl on Jakku who is now involved.

If she was being trained, like it was hinted at, then there's a good chance she's soon or knows about lightsabers. But even if she doesn't, the variables of the situation still matter...Which is Kylo is fighting wounded, and he's trying not to hurt her. It's not like she's fighting with skill, she was lashing out like Luke did in Return of the Jedi, letting emotion guide her, which was a problem. Stuff like that can easily mess you up because emotion clouds judgement, which we saw.

The movie paints a fairly clear picture, or at least alludes to a lot. It seemed clear to me.

I think there's a little personal interpretation on your part on

[Show spoiler]what Luke was thinking when he saw her. One could say he was surprised to see someone found him or wondered what's going on that he's needed. We've been taught that Jedi's, nor Sith are all knowing so we can't assume. I think this discussion proves that there are different ways to look at this film which could've been spelled out a little better to avoid the confusion. It's just that it seems Star Wars is breaking it's own rules. Up till now, one had to be trained by a master in the ways of the Force including Anakin who was considered among the most gifted and powerful. She seems to be skipping those steps and figuring out by herself because they never clearly indicated that she had any knowledge or training at all. In fact they indicated the opposite. That she was just learning about it right before our eyes. I just don't see why they couldn't have paced it more in line with the others and have her learn and train first before using these new skills.

[L-Rouge]

Re Rey..

[Show spoiler]I am not at all bothered by how powerful she appears to be, listening to Chewy's Girlfriend after Rey awakens, she says these effective words to her.
"close your eyes... let the light guide you...it has been there for you, all along"

well that suggests the force has been around Rey for a long time and she has in-advertently using it to survive, the force itself has been guiding her.

which is easy to connect to her battle with Kylo, she was being guided, consciously channeling the force..in my opinion.

[Packerfan75]

Originally Posted by L-Rouge

Re Rey..

[Show spoiler]I am not at all bothered by how powerful she appears to be, listening to Chewy's Girlfriend after Rey awakens, she says these effective words to her.
"close your eyes... let the light guide you...it has been there for you, all along"

well that suggests the force has been around Rey for a long time and she has in-advertently using it to survive, the force itself has been guiding her.

which is easy to connect to her battle with Kylo, she was being guided, consciously channeling the force..in my opinion.

Then I guess the rules have changed then because through 6 films, everyone else who had the ability to use the force needed to be trained how to use it so we just have to accept that

[Show spoiler] Rey is the exception to the rule for some unknown reason.

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by Spirit Zero

Max Landis didn't like TFA.

Star Wars The Force Awakens: Max Landis is sexist and Rey is a Mary Sue *spoilers* - YouTube

http://comicbook.com/2015/12/21/max-...force-awakens/

Max Landis wrote American Ultra and Victor Frankenstein. So... Where's Uwe Boll's dissection on the directing for the force awakens? It means about as much to me. Chronicle was a fun ride, but he got lucky it would seem.

[Jasonic]

Originally Posted by Packerfan75

To be fair, Luke didn't become a powerful Jedi till his 3rd film. Han had experience as a pilot, mechanic and at shooting. Leia didn't love him till Empire. Anakin wasn't all powerful till his 3rd film. The first real fight he got in, he got his arm chopped off. Rey was a lot more successful in one film.

Count Dooku >>>> Kylo Ren....by far.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by Jasonic

Count Dooku >>>> Kylo Ren....by far.

Dooku talked a big game but ran from Yoda and died against a more experienced Anakin. There were extenuating circumstances but still, not impressive.

[prozacnation1978]

Originally Posted by Dispatch Ninja

I agree that it was much better the 2nd time, and I loved it after the 1st time seeing it.

Me too second time was better than first
Enjoyed the 2d more than 3d

[NzYme]

Can someone please fill me in on this "Mary Sue" crap concerning Rey? What does it mean?

[Rodney-2187]

Rey had experience kicking butt with her staff before she ever had a lightsaber. She doesn't seem afraid of much. Her scavenging likely gave her an excellent knowledge of mechanical workings, and she said she had flown a ship before. All that BEFORE the force "awakened."

[tilallr1]

Originally Posted by Packerfan75

Then I guess the rules have changed then because through 6 films, everyone else who had the ability to use the force needed to be trained how to use it so we just have to accept that

[Show spoiler] Rey is the exception to the rule for some unknown reason.

Not really. Don't forget Anakin used the force to build things, see future events and pod race. So training isn't required to use the force.

But

[Show spoiler]I also agree Rey had some previous training as a child. I think we are going to find that out in #2 and that Luke is her father, and that her mother Mara Jade or somebody else was killed protecting her. She may have even blocked out her memories and force abilities to protect her from Kylo Ren sensing her in the Force. Luke probably thought they were both dead (since Rey no longer could be sensed in the force), which is why he exiled himself. He was probably in fear he would turn to the Dark Side to seek revenge and isolated himself. After all Luke was always borderline. It also does explain why when we see Luke his eyes well up in tears. His daughter has returned!

[tilallr1]

Originally Posted by NzYme

Can someone please fill me in on this "Mary Sue" crap concerning Rey? What does it mean?

“Mary Sue” is one of those terms that had a useful meaning in fan culture at one point, long ago, and has now become both vague and toxic. Originally, a “Mary Sue” was an author surrogate, inserted into fan-fiction. The “fan fiction” thing is important, because part of the fantasy of the “Mary Sue” was the fan-fic author getting to live at Hogwarts or travel on board the U.S.S. Enterprise. And this thinly veiled copy of the story’s author is incredibly good at everything, to the point where all the established characters marvel at her (usually it’s “her”) wonderfulness.


The “Mary Sue” is a very specific wish-fulfillment fantasy, in other words. It’s about getting to hang out with Harry, Ron and Hermione, and having them admire you. There’s nothing wrong with that kind of fantasy—we’ve all had it, when we get especially invested in a particular universe—but the term acquired a pejorative meaning because people felt it made for bad stories. Fair enough.


Over time, the term “Mary Sue” has broadened until it means “any female character who is unrealistically talented or skilled.” Which is insane for a couple of reasons: It makes this “trope” so vague as to be meaningless, and this is also purely a way at tearing down female characters who are good at stuff.


So without getting into heavy spoilers, Rey has one element of the “Mary Sue” character locked down: She’s a newly added character in an existing universe. But she’s among a bunch of new characters in the first chapter of a new story, so it’s not like she was introduced halfway through Return of the Jedi and suddenly started out-Lukeing Luke.

[Geoff D]

Never heard of that term before, thanks for the primer. As for Rey

[Show spoiler] it doesn't nark me off that she's force sensitive and can handle herself around weapons, fighting, tech stuff etc etc, it's how she can even know to try a mind trick when as far as she's concerned Luke Skywalker (and, one supposes, all he stands for) was simply a myth only a few days before. Yeah, Luke's conversion in ANH was just as swift, but at least he was shown being trained by a flippin' Jedi, he didn't just start throwing his powers around willy nilly because he had a vision.

I get that the Force is Awakening, right, but when it 'awakens' does it download a Jedi manual into their minds immediately or something? I'm being facetious, natch, as no doubt we'll hear more about her training, heritage etc in the upcoming films, books, whatever, but it still removes some of the magic of Rey's journey in this film IMO because it comes from seemingly nowhere; not her latent power itself but her realisation of how she can use it.

Given the point above about Luke shown being trained while we've got only vague hints at Rey's lineage, I guess it's because I like my first films of trilogies to be more self contained. Sure, Lucas presented such a rounded story in ANH because he had to, there was no Lucas Empire yet, and he did indeed leave TESB completely open-ended because he had the luxury of knowing that there would be a third movie no matter what. Yet the makers of TFA had that luxury built in from the off and it makes the film feel quite insubstantial to me as a result, that it's a mere appetiser rather than the main course.

Still, in age when 'cinematic universes' are built around such extended trailers masquerading as movies, nothing should surprise me any more.

[danman227460]

[Show spoiler]You can see she tried it a few times and only got it right at the end. She probably heard the rumors about what a Jedi could do and decided to test them out for herself. She only managed to grasp it at the end. Even when she spoke to Fin when they rescued her, she wasn`t sure how she managed to do it.

She had some pointers from Maz where she told Rey to close her eyes and feel the force around her. This is what she does during the fight with Ren.

So yes she didn`t have training but we don`t know if she had an kind of pointers or seen anything as a kid because we don`t know her back story. If the rumors are true she had exposure to the force as a kid, it wouldn`t be too far fetch for her to be able to use it with a few pointers.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Never heard of that term before, thanks for the primer. As for Rey

[Show spoiler] it doesn't nark me off that she's force sensitive and can handle herself around weapons, fighting, tech stuff etc etc, it's how she can even know to try a mind trick when as far as she's concerned Luke Skywalker (and, one supposes, all he stands for) was simply a myth only a few days before. Yeah, Luke's conversion in ANH was just as swift, but at least he was shown being trained by a flippin' Jedi, he didn't just start throwing his powers around willy nilly because he had a vision.

I get that the Force is Awakening, right, but when it 'awakens' does it download a Jedi manual into their minds immediately or something? I'm being facetious, natch, as no doubt we'll hear more about her training, heritage etc in the upcoming films, books, whatever, but it still removes some of the magic of Rey's journey in this film IMO because it comes from seemingly nowhere; not her latent power itself but her realisation of how she can use it.

Given the point above about Luke shown being trained while we've got only vague hints at Rey's lineage, I guess it's because I like my first films of trilogies to be more self contained. Sure, Lucas presented such a rounded story in ANH because he had to, there was no Lucas Empire yet, and he did indeed leave TESB completely open-ended because he had the luxury of knowing that there would be a third movie no matter what. Yet the makers of TFA had that luxury built in from the off and it makes the film feel quite insubstantial to me as a result, that it's a mere appetiser rather than the main course.

Still, in age when 'cinematic universes' are built around such extended trailers masquerading as movies, nothing should surprise me any more.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/please-stop-s...tar-1749134275

Originally Posted by NzYme

Can someone please fill me in on this "Mary Sue" crap concerning Rey? What does it mean?

[worldchmps]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Never heard of that term before, thanks for the primer. As for Rey

[Show spoiler] it doesn't nark me off that she's force sensitive and can handle herself around weapons, fighting, tech stuff etc etc, it's how she can even know to try a mind trick when as far as she's concerned Luke Skywalker (and, one supposes, all he stands for) was simply a myth only a few days before. Yeah, Luke's conversion in ANH was just as swift, but at least he was shown being trained by a flippin' Jedi, he didn't just start throwing his powers around willy nilly because he had a vision.

I get that the Force is Awakening, right, but when it 'awakens' does it download a Jedi manual into their minds immediately or something? I'm being facetious, natch, as no doubt we'll hear more about her training, heritage etc in the upcoming films, books, whatever, but it still removes some of the magic of Rey's journey in this film IMO because it comes from seemingly nowhere; not her latent power itself but her realisation of how she can use it.

Given the point above about Luke shown being trained while we've got only vague hints at Rey's lineage, I guess it's because I like my first films of trilogies to be more self contained. Sure, Lucas presented such a rounded story in ANH because he had to, there was no Lucas Empire yet, and he did indeed leave TESB completely open-ended because he had the luxury of knowing that there would be a third movie no matter what. Yet the makers of TFA had that luxury built in from the off and it makes the film feel quite insubstantial to me as a result, that it's a mere appetiser rather than the main course.

Still, in age when 'cinematic universes' are built around such extended trailers masquerading as movies, nothing should surprise me any more.

Was wondering that too. How did she learn to do so much so soon? Even the light saber battle. And even just getting it from the snow. Luke had problems doing that when he was learning. Is she stronger than Luke? Even if so, no teacher and she ends up looking like a Jedi expert? Sorry, just seems weird to me.

About spoilers, did want everyone said. Didn't read any reviews other than to check Rotten Tomatoes rating. Stayed away from these SW threads. Went in not knowing anything beyond what I saw in trailers, in photos, and the first word was This.

Who was the guy at the very beginning who bit the big one in the village? Seemed he must have had back story they were leaving out.

Still unhappy so many scenes seemed similar to original trilogy scenes. Abrams doesn't seem to like to do everything from scratch. I'm ok with not having to rehash scenes.

By the way, the scene at the end was filmed on an Irish island. That's the only scene for the next movie the filmed, basically finishing that scene, since they were already there. Any idea if the next movie's director finished the scene or did Abrams?

[danman227460]

[Show spoiler] The guy might have links to either Luke or the Empire. He could be the one who was there when Ren became evil and decided to deflect and steal a piece of the map from the Empire. He knew who Ren was before he became Kylo Ren, he knew of his history.

Either that or he was a trusted family friend of Luke who gave him his location for safe keeping.

Originally Posted by worldchmps

Was wondering that too. How did she learn to do so much so soon? Even the light saber battle. And even just getting it from the snow. Luke had problems doing that when he was learning. Is she stronger than Luke? Even if so, no teacher and she ends up looking like a Jedi expert? Sorry, just seems weird to me.

About spoilers, did want everyone said. Didn't read any reviews other than to check Rotten Tomatoes rating. Stayed away from these SW threads. Went in not knowing anything beyond what I saw in trailers, in photos, and the first word was This.

Who was the guy at the very beginning who bit the big one in the village? Seemed he must have had back story they were leaving out.

Still unhappy so many scenes seemed similar to original trilogy scenes. Abrams doesn't seem to like to do everything from scratch. I'm ok with not having to rehash scenes.

By the way, the scene at the end was filmed on an Irish island. That's the only scene for the next movie the filmed, basically finishing that scene, since they were already there. Any idea if the next movie's director finished the scene or did Abrams?