Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[Will.]

Originally Posted by Blu-21

Anyone think Rey was too perfect? She could do no wrong.

I don't think so. She's one in a million; she's naturally a badass and a skilled fighter/pilot. Plus she's force sensitive and intelligent which gives her an extra edge. I think she's just about the same skill-level as Luke (ace pilot, good shot). But she's stronger with the force.

[Ernest Rister]

I don't know who created this whole "Mary Sue" business...but admirable female characters are as old as literature and narrative itself, going back thousands of years. Why are they suddenly branded with this criticism now? There's a whiff of misogyny anytime someone brings it up. "She's too perfect!" No, she's just a good person learning her potential. Does this concept threaten you?

[Himmel]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Luke is love personified. His love saved the Galaxy. Then he went to Endor and cuddled up with Ewoks and went to sleep. Then he woke up and had to get flea medication.

Rabies shot don't forget the Rabies Shot.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Terminated

Rabies shot don't forget the Rabies Shot.

Seven shots to prevent Force Rabies. Man, you don't want Force Rabies.

[Al_The_Strange]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I don't know who created this whole "Mary Sue" business...but admirable female characters are as old as literature and narrative itself, going back thousands of years. Why are they suddenly branded with this criticism now? There's a whiff of misogyny anytime someone brings it up. "She's too perfect!" No, she's just a good person learning her potential. Does this concept threaten you?

Doesn't threaten me at all. I'm actually starting to wonder if people even know what a Mary Sue means - I can't envision Arndt, Kasdan, or Abrams writing themselves in as Rey as a form of wish fulfillment.

If it is the concept of having a strong female character that bugs people, then nuts to them.

[RSuarez]

Episode VIII pushed to December 2017...

bummer...

Link

[Geoff D]

Not really a huge surprise. I just hope that this doesn't mean that the script is getting junked and they have to work on a new one in double quick time...

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Al_The_Strange

Doesn't threaten me at all. I'm actually starting to wonder if people even know what a Mary Sue means - I can't envision Arndt, Kasdan, or Abrams writing themselves in as Rey as a form of wish fulfillment.

If it is the concept of having a strong female character that bugs people, then nuts to them.

I just got schooled by an old friend on the history of Mary Sue, that it comes from role-playing games going back many years, and it has been grossly misappropriated by some people who have...issues...with great male and female characters in stories.

Rey is not a Mary Sue. She's a protagonist.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Blu-21

Anyone think Rey was too perfect? She could do no wrong.

Nope, she's just the right amount of perfect.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Not really a huge surprise. I just hope that this doesn't mean that the script is getting junked and they have to work on a new one in double quick time...

No, the stories for the new trilogy were all plotted out by Abrams and Kasdan. Rewrites are natural, Johnson and Trevorrow will be futzing with them -- Walt called it "plussing" -- throughout production. It's not a big deal. Tempest, teapots, etc.

[dgoswald]

Originally Posted by Will.

I don't think so. She's one in a million; she's naturally a badass and a skilled fighter/pilot. Plus she's force sensitive and intelligent which gives her an extra edge. I think she's just about the same skill-level as Luke (ace pilot, good shot). But she's stronger with the force.

[Show spoiler]

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

No, the stories for the new trilogy were all plotted out by Abrams and Kasdan. Rewrites are natural, Johnson and Trevorrow will be futzing with them -- Walt called it "plussing" -- throughout production. It's not a big deal. Tempest, teapots, etc.

What, just like how Lucas plotted out his sequel trilogy before they threw it out and started over? Anything's possible, and it wouldn't surprise me if the situation for the rest of the trilogy is more fluid than we may think, owing to the hurried creation of TFA in the first place.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

What, just like how Lucas plotted out his sequel trilogy before they threw it out and started over? Anything's possible, and it wouldn't surprise me if the situation for the rest of the trilogy is more fluid than we may think, owing to the hurried creation of TFA in the first place.

Nope. Heard it first hand last week, I'd say who, but he would do this to me...

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

What, just like how Lucas plotted out his sequel trilogy before they threw it out and started over?

It's over. We're not locked in the bad man's basement anymore. We're free. We can hope again.

The sun'll come ouuuuuut, tomorrow...

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Nope. Heard it first hand last week, I'd say who, but he would do this to me...

Fair enough Ernest. So, does Luke turn to the Dark Side then?

Originally Posted by octagon

It's over. We're not locked in the bad man's basement anymore. We're free. We can hope again.

The sun'll come ouuuuuut, tomorrow...

That's what I feel like, I'm so used to Lucas chopping and changing on a whim with the prequels that clearly I'm having a hard time adjusting to the idea of a Star Wars trilogy that's properly planned out in advance.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Fair enough Ernest. So, does Luke turn to the Dark Side then?

All I can say is that LucasFilm is telling their ancilliary divisions the story so that everyone can get their ducks in a row. That's a whole lot of people and a whole lot of ducks. The *story* for the new trilogy is done, has been done, and it was Abrams and Kasdan and Kennedy and Horn and everybody getting on board. It's done. DONE. IGN and other sites are making click-bait out of things that happen on every movie. Sure, there's gonna be kanoodling with dialog and scenes to get things cooking and Johnson has to collaborate with Trevorrow, etc. so things don't blatantly contradict, and sure, a few things are going to change, but no -- hell, no -- there's no page one rewrite happening on any of this stuff. It's done. Did I mention it's done? It's done.

[Geoff D]

So it's done then is what you're saying?

[octagon]

I'm just bummed that barring a rerelease (or an exceptionally long run) of TFA I'm not going to be walk out of a Star Wars movie on a balmy summer night anytime soon.

Well, maybe one of the side movies, I guess but that's not really the same.

#nerdworldproblems

[rdm5777]

Originally Posted by Will.

I don't think so. She's one in a million; she's naturally a badass and a skilled fighter/pilot. Plus she's force sensitive and intelligent which gives her an extra edge. I think she's just about the same skill-level as Luke (ace pilot, good shot). But she's stronger with the force.

Don't forget she can also understand every language thrown at her (droid, wookie)...C-3PO has nothing on her...

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I don't know who created this whole "Mary Sue" business...but admirable female characters are as old as literature and narrative itself, going back thousands of years. Why are they suddenly branded with this criticism now? There's a whiff of misogyny anytime someone brings it up. "She's too perfect!" No, she's just a good person learning her potential. Does this concept threaten you?

[Show spoiler]Why are admirable female characters beyond criticism? I'm not on board with the whole Mary Sue thing but I do think how "easy" everything was for Rey was kind of boring upon repeat viewings (and for the record I would be saying the same thing if it was a male character). I'm ok with a thing or two coming naturally or because one is strong with the force but if the character excels at everything out of the gate, it can get stale fairly quick. Part of the charm of the OT is that Han, Luke, & Leia all needed each other, helped each other (hell, they even needed help from the droids at times), and grew as characters together throughout the films. Off the top of my head, I struggle to find one victorious moment in the OT that wasn't a team effort. Rey didn't really need anybody...she solved all the problems herself. The closest we get to a team effort involving Rey is when Rey & Finn are escaping Jakuu but even then she ultimately solves the problem and aims the turret for Finn with her piloting skills. She did not need Han or Finn to rescue her on Starkiller base, she was doing fine on her own and was well on her way to just finding a ship and flying off.

Luke had to train to use the force and a lightsaber then still gets his ass handed to him when he takes on Vader (yes, I know taking on Vader isn't equal to taking on Kylo). Despite Luke's piloting skills, he still needed Han to save him in ANH during the trench run and Obi-Wan's guidance to persuade him to use the force for the final shot. If I recall correctly, Luke couldn't even speak with R2 at first and was dependent on C-3PO or his screen in the x-wing.

Ultimately I didn't see Rey learn anything or really need anyone, she just kind of did it all with no/minimal assistance. While some enjoyment can still be had from that (I still like Rey!) it can become stale and the overall journey a little more shallow. I hope they will improve on this in the future movies. I also hope they do better justice to the OT characters but that is another discussion...

Edited to put it all in spoiler tags, just in case...

[Geoff D]

Makes sense from a corporate POV, to get all their partners pulling in the same direction, but then that never stopped Lucas from making shit up as he went along and he managed dat blanket marketing just fine. But yes, I understand.