Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by ChainsawJedi

I think it's you that's forgotten to take your meds.

Nah its just been pretty much beaten into the ground that the prequels were messed up story wise if you actually LOOK at the original trilogy. Lucas created a round whole back 40 years ago and then decades later tried to cram a square peg into it

[Geoff D]

Yeah, Lucas screwed the pooch with all the backtracking in ROTJ, never mind the prequels. From a certain point of view.

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by wormraper

Nah its just been pretty much beaten into the ground that the prequels were messed up story wise if you actually LOOK at the original trilogy. Lucas created a round whole back 40 years ago and then decades later tried to cram a square peg into it

Who are you trying to convince? Me or you?

Look, I don't know how many times you've picked up a pen to write something but it's the perogative of the creator to change their story as they see fit. Lucas expanded on his story, threw in a few curveballs, challenged preconceptions and, yes, left a few big question marks in the process. So, it didn't fit your neat and tidy assumption of what Star Wars should be. Ahh, diddums. You've had 15 years. Get over it.

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yeah, Lucas screwed the pooch with all the backtracking in ROTJ, never mind the prequels. From a certain point of view.

Exactly. Each film since the original Star Wars has pushed the envelope further. Was Vader supposed to be Luke's dad in the first film? Probably not but did we pull him up in 1980 when that revelation was dropped? And how about in 1983 when everything Obi-wan said in the first film turned out to be a lie, did we moan then or did we just go along with it?

So, what happened in sixteen years to make some fans the way they are now? God knows but it sure has grown old very quickly.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by ChainsawJedi

Who are you trying to convince? Me or you?

Look, I don't know how many times you've picked up a pen to write something but it's the perogative of the creator to change their story as they see fit. Lucas expanded on his story, threw in a few curveballs, challenged preconceptions and, yes, left a few big question marks in the process. So, it didn't fit your neat and tidy assumption of what Star Wars should be. Ahh, diddums. You've had 15 years. Get over it.

Lol. Expanding the universe and contradicting it at every turn are two separate things. The prequels clash so much that its very much an oil and water issue.

But then again I'm a firm believer that lucases mental illness issues and his inability to surround himself with anyone but yes men swelled his ego to enormous proportions and nearly destroyed what he created.

[rickah88]

Lucas couldn't win either way. Entitled fanboys are going to wail and cry no matter what, so he did what he wanted, with his artwork. I commend him for it.
I'm very happy with the finished product, and can't wait to see the series continue. Of course who will the entitled fanboys have to blame if VII doesn't meet expectation?
I've said it before and I'll say it again: George Lucas has given me so much more than he's taken away...and for that, I'll always be grateful

[ChainsawJedi]

"Yes men" - that old saw. As I say, I think the criticisms are all taken from the same shallow trough and just repeated by rote without anyone bothering to check the facts. "Oil and water" - cliche after cliche. And not even remotely accurate.

And Lucas has mental issues, does he? Another cliche from the bottom-feeders. As a genuine sufferer of mental illness, I find your glib remarks quite offensive and all they do is reveal you to not be up to the job of debating this seriously and intelligently.

[ChainsawJedi]

Originally Posted by rickah88

Lucas couldn't win either way. Entitled fanboys are going to wail and cry no matter what, so he did what he wanted, with his artwork. I commend him for it.
I'm very happy with the finished product, and can't wait to see the series continue. Of course who will the entitled fanboys have to blame if VII doesn't meet expectation?
I've said it before and I'll say it again: George Lucas has given me so much more than he's taken away...and for that, I'll always be grateful

Well, thank god for you

Lucas created a monster. It's a shame to think that if he knew how people were going to behave in light of his revisiting his films, he may never have made them in the first place. It was quite telling when asked if he would make any more Star Wars films he said "Why? When all people do is tell you you're a bad person."

For all his success and fortune, he can't stop the blunt little knives of those entitled fanboys from pricking his skin.

And so he's walked away from his creation, left it to someone else to get abuse hurled at them for the next fifteen years. Poor Mr Abrams; if he only knew what he was inviting upon himself.

[klauswhereareyou]

Watching the last 30 minutes of Attack of the Clones last night was almost unbearable, mostly due to the fact that the majority of the score is sliced and diced cues from Phantom Menace.

[klauswhereareyou]

Originally Posted by R3P0

you also discussing the very first film to be shot 100% digitally many seem to forget that part. Look at the very first digital film from 2002 compared to a film shot on digital now.

Which is why he should not have shot it digitally. You want to shoot some low budget experimental movie fine, but don't shoot a Star Wars film and expect the visuals to hold up as little as a decade later.

[Silo5]

Originally Posted by aiman04

All this talk about Obi-Wan's grandchild could be a cover up, she might be Mace Windu's descendant, with some twist to her intentions.

Thanks for the info.

**It's getting ridiculous around here that someone can put information/speculation involving the actual movie and all anyone else around here is continue bickering about "George Lucas ruined my childhood" or how he ruined the OT/PT.

How many times do we have to go through this with these threads?!!? Get over it! The movies are what they are and nothing is going to change that. Are your lives so deprived that it has to revolve around this tired topic?

Either post something related to Episode VII or create your own bashing thread elsewhere. Those of us that come here looking for information related to Episode VII are getting tired of this nonsense.**

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by ChainsawJedi

"Yes men" - that old saw. As I say, I think the criticisms are all taken from the same shallow trough and just repeated by rote without anyone bothering to check the facts. "Oil and water" - cliche after cliche. And not even remotely accurate.

And Lucas has mental issues, does he? Another cliche from the bottom-feeders. As a genuine sufferer of mental illness, I find your glib remarks quite offensive and all they do is reveal you to not be up to the job of debating this seriously and intelligently.

I'm actually being serious about that and it's not meant to be an insult to him. he's clinically OCD and has been deteriorating for quite some time. The signs are all there too. his temper tantrum after people panned Red Tails was pretty telling as well.

I'm intrigued by Ep 7... especially without his involvement. It's all up in the air now, we don't even know official casting yet for goodness sakes. this could turn out to be epic, or a pile of bantha poodoo, who knows. I'm willing to give it a try.

[thegoat]

Originally Posted by wormraper

I'm actually being serious about that and it's not meant to be an insult to him. he's clinically OCD and has been deteriorating for quite some time.

Well who needs a psychiatrist when we have wormraper, who can conduct a clinical assessment by watching publicity interviews and Star Wars Blu-rays?

Anyway, back on topic....

Originally Posted by ChainsawJedi

I agree. Having long lost grandchildren of the Jedi from the prequels showing up all over the place goes against the grain and robs Anakin's story of some of its impact - Anakin being the one who went against the code, giving in to attachment. Then again, if these new films are some sort of apologetic love note to the OT fans, I would imagine they'll debunk anything that was established in the prequels.

My problem with a Kenobi Jr. is that he/she would have no logical place in this story. There was never any indication the Obi-wan had a kid or a relationship (quite the opposite, even in the OT), so having a continuation of his bloodline would be a pretty contrived way to make people interested in the character and tie the film to its predecessors. Make her an original character that we will like as much as Obi-wan!

Still, I couldn't blame the guy for just saying "**** it" and going through a rebellious streak after the events of ROTS.

On your last statement, I kind of agree. I don't think that they will outright debunk anything from the prequels (this is still Lucasfilm's project, and Abrams is suddenly very respectful of Lucas' ideas), but I think there will be a lot of convenient omissions. I doubt we'll see much in the way of Gungans or hear even a peep about midichlorians. And we might see Han or his kid shoot someone from Greedo's species mid-sentence with a rocket launcher.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by thegoat

Well who needs a psychiatrist when we have wormraper, who can conduct a clinical assessment by watching publicity interviews and Star Wars Blu-rays?

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by toddly6666

You extreme fans are nuts regarding the datedness of special effects - the prequels are the complete opposite of the original trilogy. The OT effects are not dated at all but the prequel effects are - in all three prequels, so yes....very video gamey.

If you reallly want a comparison, look at Star Trek and Babylon 5. There was a lot of talk about how Trek was getting old because they were sticking with models for TNG and DS9 where was Bablyon 5 was new and cutting edge as they were using cgi models for everything. Ever look at a Babylon 5 ship recently - not a redo or new render that someone did but an actual shot from the show? Even then they looked so-so but now it looks like an old PS1 game at best. With cgi, you are constantly hitting the limits of what technology can do so even within a few years it will look dated. But it does allow a lot of freedom. I think they need to use what works for the situation. Look at a lot of the changes they did with the Special Editions when they first came out in 1997 - even that level of cgi allowed them to do some pretty good shots that still hold up - Jabba may look like crap but a lot of the space shots look good. I don't think sticking with practical effects are going to make this movie a success - to get the shots they would want, it would almost be impossible to do them without cgi. I think it is a matter of balance.

[thegoat]

Originally Posted by wormraper

[Show spoiler]

[roguescribner]

Originally Posted by toddly6666

since this movie is in new hands, I really hope that no pattern will be present.

It's called "rhyming."

[TheAtomizer]

Originally Posted by rickah88

Lucas couldn't win either way. Entitled fanboys are going to wail and cry no matter what, so he did what he wanted, with his artwork. I commend him for it.
I'm very happy with the finished product, and can't wait to see the series continue. Of course who will the entitled fanboys have to blame if VII doesn't meet expectation?
I've said it before and I'll say it again: George Lucas has given me so much more than he's taken away...and for that, I'll always be grateful

Well said, I think this is the most relevant post to the prequel/original/Lucas story issue argument I've seen so far. You can't satisfy everyone on planet earth with the way "your" story for the third biggest movie franchise there is. He had a vision and made the original's the way he wanted to and it turned out well enough to work and shouldn't have had no arguments on it. So in his twilight years he decided to expand the universe with a prequel. He did well enough on those too given the huge gap in years to get back to those stories. He envisioned having 9 episodes, we may not get to see "his" final three, but knowing he has some "creative" control over the outlines and story will hopefully make the last three a satisfying ending, but I'm sure that's too much to ask for, for some people out in the wild blue yonder.

[TheAtomizer]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

Watching the last 30 minutes of Attack of the Clones last night was almost unbearable, mostly due to the fact that the majority of the score is sliced and diced cues from Phantom Menace.

Don't diss the score, it does what it needs to, no more and no less. Those words don't belong in the same sentence anyway.

[klauswhereareyou]

Originally Posted by TheAtomizer

Don't diss the score, it does what it needs to, no more and no less. Those words don't belong in the same sentence anyway.

Do you even know what you are talking about? This isn't a matter of I don't like what John Williams wrote for these scenes, it's litterly George Lucas and Ben Burt took cues from Phantom Menace, hacked them to pieces and stuck them on the soundtrack during almost the entire score from the part in the arena scene when music kicks in when the Jedis show up until right before the confrontation with Dooku. It really gives the movie the feel of a Star Wars video game like Battlefront or something that does a similar thing during gameplay.