Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Bluyoda

Says you! Where is this imaginary law written?
Prove it now, or forever hold your peace.

It's not a literal law... though I wouldn't mind if it was. It's more of an ethical responsibility.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

It's not a literal law... though I wouldn't mind if it was. It's more of an ethical responsibility.

Gawd, I certainly would. Copyright holders don't always behave the way I think they should but I'll take the devil I know over some federal commission or citizens advisory board or whoever would be ensuring they behave 'ethically'.

[aiman04]

Never mind. Fake.

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by Richard Graham

I think Lucasfilm should have released a statement something like, We at Lucasfilm would like to thank all the fans for spending countless millions on EU merch all these years but you know, suck it.

Funny. I don't recall them releasing a statement saying that the EU would be turned into films, or that this was the basis on which people ought to spend "countless" millions on it. (I'm pretty sure retailers, publishers and LFL have counted it at some point.)

"I'm sorry son. All that fan-fiction jerk material that dad paid for over the years....Well, fan-fiction jerk-material was all it was in the end. "

[simonynwa]

Originally Posted by svenge

And it's because of people like you that the PT/SE fanboys are held in such disdain by the vast majority of Star Wars fans who are of legal age.

I think it most likely that you're so adamantly against the UOT being released because you don't want hundreds of thousands (if not a few million) buyers "voting with their wallets" against the desecration that the OT has suffered over the last 17 years because that would invalidate your world view that everyone ought to love magically-disappearing rocks, Emo Jedi ghosts appearing for no logical reason, totally incongruent musical numbers and so on.

I can just imagine you and your Jar-Jar Underoos-wearing ilk crying into their cereal bowls were that to happen...

Yes because your response is so much more considered...

"Desecration" and "suffering" ? I refuse to be entertained by this nearly 2 hour film because I can't get over the fact that a rock disappeared ?? Oh but you know I can take a stormtrooper hitting their head because thats a 77 error and not a 04 error I know there are more changes but is your life suddenly going to be complete when the whole original films are released from their "nightmare" and given their "freedom". I would like the originals too, but come on, you're as extreme as he is.

[Kryptonic]

As far as I know, all of that EU content still exists and you can still read the books and play the games. It didn't magically go up in flames the instant Lucasfilm made the announcement. Fans are such babies looking for anything to whine about.

[R3P0]

Originally Posted by simonynwa

Yes because your response is so much more considered...

"Desecration" and "suffering" ? I refuse to be entertained by this nearly 2 hour film because I can't get over the fact that a rock disappeared ?? Oh but you know I can take a stormtrooper hitting their head because thats a 77 error and not a 04 error I know there are more changes but is your life suddenly going to be complete when the whole original films are released from their "nightmare" and given their "freedom". I would like the originals too, but come on, you're as extreme as he is.

The funny thing is not all the changes were bad, some were horrible yes, but honestly the Wompa scene in Empire was a lot better, Same with the entrance to Mos Eisley and Cloud City, some of the skeletons in the background of the desert were good in Episode 4.

The worst edits were obviously Vaders NOOOOO in Return, Hayden added to Jedi, and Han Shooting first, the stupid musical number in Return, and the bad CGI of the stormtroopers riding stuff in Episode 4. Honestly I think some of the edits should stay just because they added to the world and made it seem more alive.

They could easily fix some of the CGI and remove the crap and no one would complain as it would be the best of both worlds. I am still torn on whether or not the Jabba scene in Episode 4 needs to go or not, if it stays the CGI definitely needs to be fixed on it as it looked dated and horrible even when it came out in 97.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by R3P0

The funny thing is not all the changes were bad...

They weren't all bad but they should definitely all go. Cherry-picking this change or that for inclusion will largely undercut the point (or at least one of the main points) of releasing theatrical editions in the first place and can only lead to bickering about what should have been in and what should have been out.

[R3P0]

Originally Posted by octagon

They weren't all bad but they should definitely all go. Cherry-picking this change or that for inclusion will largely undercut the point (or at least one of the main points) of releasing theatrical editions in the first place and can only lead to bickering about what should have been in and what should have been out.

The problem here is your going to have that anyways, how many fans of both editions PT and UOT have complained about the light sabers in the OT. If you change those colors your making a change. If you add better audio your making a change, if you modify 1 sound effect or 1 shot you are making a change. At this point if your going to release them do it but make no changes to it, The issue I have with the Vader NOOOO and the Greedo shooting first scenes it is it physically and emotionally changes what the character was when you watch it for the first time. The rest of the changes I could give 2 craps about, its those 2 edits that bug the hell out of me.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by octagon

Gawd, I certainly would. Copyright holders don't always behave the way I think they should but I'll take the devil I know over some federal commission or citizens advisory board or whoever would be ensuring they behave 'ethically'.

Fair enough point.

I should amend that to state that I would prefer a properly thought out, worded, and enforced law. Something that I doubt would actually happen (even if an actual law were to exist).

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by R3P0

The problem here is your going to have that anyways, how many fans of both editions PT and UOT have complained about the light sabers in the OT. If you change those colors your making a change. If you add better audio your making a change, if you modify 1 sound effect or 1 shot you are making a change. At this point if your going to release them do it but make no changes to it, The issue I have with the Vader NOOOO and the Greedo shooting first scenes it is it physically and emotionally changes what the character was when you watch it for the first time. The rest of the changes I could give 2 craps about, its those 2 edits that bug the hell out of me.

The changes that effect the tone of a scene, character, and so forth are generally the most criticized and problematic.

But I do think that putting in brand new CGI shots/effects completely in place of the original models, SFX would have still been controversial (of course the controversy of the changes could have been avoided by continuing to make the originals available as well).


I think if they changes had been comparatively minimal... simply enhancing the effects that are already there rather rather than making sweeping changes, it wouldn't have been as controversial. Things like eliminating matte boxes, fixing the composting of some SFX (like the transparent cockpits of the original versions that were fixed for the special editions), and perhaps, yes, even fixing the lightsaber effects to look more consistent would have been nice and fine IMO (I'm surprised the lightsabers were never redone over the course of all of the sets of revisions Lucas did). None of those would blatantly stand out as substantial changes to most viewers, even many (not all, but many) of those who have been complaining about the special editions for years.

That said, I do agree that at this point they should focus on releasing the original versions in as "pure" of a form as possible.

[simonynwa]

Originally Posted by R3P0

The funny thing is not all the changes were bad, some were horrible yes, but honestly the Wompa scene in Empire was a lot better, Same with the entrance to Mos Eisley and Cloud City, some of the skeletons in the background of the desert were good in Episode 4.

The worst edits were obviously Vaders NOOOOO in Return, Hayden added to Jedi, and Han Shooting first, the stupid musical number in Return, and the bad CGI of the stormtroopers riding stuff in Episode 4. Honestly I think some of the edits should stay just because they added to the world and made it seem more alive.

They could easily fix some of the CGI and remove the crap and no one would complain as it would be the best of both worlds. I am still torn on whether or not the Jabba scene in Episode 4 needs to go or not, if it stays the CGI definitely needs to be fixed on it as it looked dated and horrible even when it came out in 97.

The cosmetic changes to certain shots that act as replacements to original shots I can live with or without because they have so little overall effect on the film itself. Shots such as the first shot of them entering Moss Eisley or putting in additional creatures in some shots or altering the shots of the Death Star attack are pointless but don't really affect anything. Even Greedo shooting first is so utterly minor that I can't even see why he bothered.

Its when he goes beyond the original edit of the film and extends it - more extensive shots of Moss Eisley, the Jabba sequence, the Jedi Rocks thing are the most obvious because they destroy the pacing of the film regardless of the merits of how good or bad they are as individual scenes. They are deleted scenes through and through. The original Star Wars is a masterpiece of editing because of its constant build up of pace and momentum that once you hit the high of Luke and Leia swinging over the chasm, it never lets up. (maybe even before that for some ). And to think Lucas considers his strengths to be as an editor he should recognise that. It's what was also the biggest detriment to the prequels and something that enhance the other flaws (acting etc) - a complete lack of pace. He even managed to make it worse in TPM by adding more to the second lap of the Podrace and showing us all the Podracers. TPM and AOTC are very poorly edited IMO and I think thats why Sith stands out from the prequels despite its flaws.

I always recall a comment by Cameron on the original Terminator when he said that he had to info dump a huge amount of information that would have destroyed the pace so he had it done while they were in the middle of being chased down and it worked. Thats what these additions do (and the prequels) they stop to give us information visually or through dialogue that we simply don't need and don't fit the needs of the story.

Here's a great example from TPM from a scene that to me is fine but shows the difference to Star Wars - compare and contrast the scene where the Jedi and the Queen escape from Naboo to the moment the Millennium Falcon escapes Tatooine. TPM starts well but as soon as they escape the Droid Control Ship the film stops dead for an info dump on where they are going. Why not have droid ships chasing them while your are doing this ? Up the pace while you info dump And don't get me started on the whole thank R2D2 and tell the audience AGAIN where we are going.

It's a massive fundamental change in Lucas thinking that I think has much to do with the nature of the franchise as a whole - moving from a complete focus on the main characters themselves and the story within the world to a greater focus on the SW universe itself to the detriment of the characters story you are trying to tell. Mind you its endemic in our film culture now with everyone releasing extended versions and "director's cuts".

To go back to Episode VII (since this is the thread) that is what I think more than anything that Abrams, for all his flaws, will bring to the table on Ep Vii. Some much needed pace.

[simonynwa]

The issue I have with the Vader NOOOO and the Greedo shooting first scenes it is it physically and emotionally changes what the character was when you watch it for the first time.

Really ? How ? I mean they are not particular nice changes as they are so unnecessary since the Vader thing makes explicit what was already implicit but it doesn't change his character and did you ever really think that Han was a bad guy or it was going to be tough to win him round to the Rebel cause in the end ??

[Darkstream]

Originally Posted by OptimusL

I think they do that so it steel feels like it fits within the SW universe to the fans, though when you go beyond 5000+ BBY they have showed more primitive versions of tech (lightsabers, ships and some comics do give off a different aesthetic with ships and costumes). I like the idea that the history of the Republic can go back over 15,000 years.

Yeah, but thousands of years? They didn't need to go back that far! I get that it's a fictional universe, but just looking at the history of our own planet, we've evolved greatly in such short span of time. There's a much much greater difference between where we are today from where we were a hundred years ago, let alone a thousand years ago! Then look at the how little has changed between The Old Republic and the Star Wars movies in supposedly 3,500 years. It looks like there was no progression hardly at all! Their past is so advanced that it makes their present appear to be the result of arrested development --- Thousands of years arrested! It just makes the civilizations in the Star Wars universe look dimwitted because they can't get over an almost 4,000 year old hump. I don't think they should have had spaceships or lightsabers at all in The Old Republic period if they were going to set it back that far -- heck, they should've been fighting with sticks and stones instead just to show some degree of evolution. Really, I just think the decision to make The Old Republic game set that far back in time is ridiculous. But I do love the designs and concepts, I just have a hard time buying into how far back it's supposed to take place in relation to the movies.

[Det. Bullock]

Originally Posted by Darkstream

Yeah, but thousands of years? They didn't need to go back that far! I get that it's a fictional universe, but just looking at the history of our own planet, we've evolved greatly in such short span of time. There's a much much greater difference between where we are today from where we were a hundred years ago, let alone a thousand years ago! Then look at the how little has changed between The Old Republic and the Star Wars movies in supposedly 3,500 years. It looks like there was no progression hardly at all! Their past is so advanced that it makes their present appear to be the result of arrested development --- Thousands of years arrested! It just makes the civilizations in the Star Wars universe look dimwitted because they can't get over an almost 4,000 year old hump. I don't think they should have had spaceships or lightsabers at all in The Old Republic period if they were going to set it back that far -- heck, they should've been fighting with sticks and stones instead just to show some degree of evolution. Really, I just think the decision to make The Old Republic game set that far back in time is ridiculous. But I do love the designs and concepts, I just have a hard time buying into how far back it's supposed to take place in relation to the movies.

Star Wars is basically a fantasy world, fantasy worlds always tend to remain in some faux-medieval setting for thousands of years, same is for Star Wars which essentially is always a variation on the same faux-futuristic zeerust-filled setting.

In the comics and videogames set a few thousand years before the galactic civil war they did some timid attempt at showing some evolution but that's it, it fundamentally is a fantasy setting.

[Blu Titan]

A little friendly is ok...if it does not get out hand. Funny have "some" who are engaged in the fanboy wars here, are quick to report others. Things need to calm a bit. If a member reports another and I see that the reporting party is fueling the war or engaging in it...he/she is getting double time.

Meaning, if you feel that the thread is getting out of hand, please report. BUT, if you "snitch" and you are part of the problem you will get double the time off as the party you are reporting. The mods are here to help, not to play sides or suspend people that you might not like.

As everyone knows, I have been around a looooong time and I know "who is who" .

Like I said, discussing and a little arguing can be a lot of fun. No personal insults...keep it, mostly, nice .

[Darkstream]

Why The Unaltered STAR WARS Trilogy Is NOT Coming To Blu-Ray

Disney doesn't own the distribution rights of the original trilogy - 20th Century Fox does.

http://badassdigest.com/2014/08/16/w...ampaign=buffer

[simonynwa]

Doesn't matter I don't think - there is no way Fox would pass up the chance to release the originals in partnership with Disney when there's money to be made They only have six years or so to make any money from the second two sequels and prequels so Id be surprised if they say no. Only question is how much they get.

He mentions that Fox would be working in them if it was true. Didnt Lucasfilm do all the work on the originals in house ?

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Darkstream

Why The Unaltered STAR WARS Trilogy Is NOT Coming To Blu-Ray

Devin Faraci wrote that article? I'm kind of stunned...for someone who's been writing entertainment for over a decade, he's spectacularly wrong.

He says: "Disney doesn't own Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi. Fox does."

Wrong. LucasFilm owns those films. Fox has *distribution rights*...

As I explained it in another thread:

"Distribution is only that. Distribution. Think of it this way. I own a newspaper business, I hire a distribution agency to deliver those newspapers to various retailers and markets. The distribution agency can't tell me what I can publish or when, they can't make their own version of my newspaper -- they only get to distribute what I tell them to, when I tell them to. I pay the distributor for their services, or they get a cut of the profits from the sales, or both.

Fox has lifetime distribution rights to Star Wars, which only means that any time LucasFilm wants to release it, Fox gets the job. That's it. That's all that means.

How much is that worth? With rumors Disney might be eying a possible purchase of Time/Warner for $87 billion, pretty sure they'd be able to fork over some moolah to buy that distribution contract out -- or even agree to LucasFilm extending the distribution deal with Fox for all six films in exchange for final rights to the original Star Wars, or signing a distribution deal with Fox for the next three films in exchange for the distribution rights for Star Wars (which would make fans pretty happy as the next films would have that Fox fanfare)."

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Darkstream

Why The Unaltered STAR WARS Trilogy Is NOT Coming To Blu-Ray





http://badassdigest.com/2014/08/16/w...ampaign=buffer

Does anyone think that Lucasfilm didn't make any money off of the previous Blu-Ray release (from prior to Disney acquiring the company), despite Fox distributing them?

Disney now owns Lucasfilm. It's not as if they are suddenly cut off from that revenue stream just because Lucasfilm is no longer owned by George Lucas.