Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[Darkstream]

Originally Posted by SymbioticFunction

Hearsay don't count for much. Internet links or literature references please.

Edit: Surely ROTS showed that Lucas doesn't actually object to a 'dark' Star Wars film?

Look, I'm a long time Star Wars fan, so please don't ask me for a source for something like that, when I may have possibly read that or even heard it from another source before there ever was an internet. I'm sure, if it was true, it's out there somewhere on the net...

But whether Empire was his least favorite or not isn't the main point I'm trying to make -- I'm just speculating on the whole idea that after Empire there seemed to be a lot more silly kid-stuff added to the Star Wars films (starting with Ewoks, then continuing years later with Jar-Jar, Watto, the skinny Battle droids, etc.) , and that maybe it was simply because Lucas wanted to add more of fun-factor to the films. Personally, I feel there was already enough of a fun-factor established with Star Wars (Ep. IV) and Empire (Ep. V), but maybe he wanted to lighten it up a bit more for the kiddies.

Of course Revenge of the Sith needed to be dark just based on the subject matter. Maybe that's also the reason why he felt Phantom Menace needed to be told the way it was: so that we have an additional chapter to start out with that was light and fun and extra kid-friendly in order to build up and contrast later with the inevitable Revenge of the Sith.

Originally Posted by Packerfan75

Maybe it's because most die hard fans love it the most and he didn't direct it.

I think that's what most fans wanted to believe -- that George got a little jealous of the fact that Empire was and still is regarded as the best of the Star Wars films, and it was one of the ones he didn't direct himself. I don't think I can allow myself to believe that is the reason, if it's even true at all. I'm one of those that still regards and resepcts Lucas and his accomplishments, even if I don't agree with some of his later choices. I just won't allow myself to be that cynical after he gave us so much.

[SymbioticFunction]

The special edition changes to Empire were quite moderate, which probably speaks for itself.

[Packerfan75]

Originally Posted by SymbioticFunction

Take it with a pinch of salt, without any proof whatsoever.

Like EVERYTHING on the internet, or t.v., or newspapers, or magazines, or word of mouth etc.
But it would be a funny coincidence if it were true.

[Darkstream]

Originally Posted by Packerfan75

Like EVERYTHING on the internet, or t.v., or newspapers, or magazines, or word of mouth etc.
But it would be a funny coicidence if it were true.

Let's just say for sake of argument that it is true that George Lucas' least favorite Star Wars film is The Empire Strikes Back. I'm not sure that it is true, but I do recall hearing that somewhere, so let's go with it...

So then the question is: Why is Empire George's least favorite?

Possible answers:

1. George is bitter that Empire is regarded as the best of the Star Wars films when it's one that he didn't direct himself.

2. It's one of the darker Star Wars films, and George probably wished there had been more light-hearted antics and kid-friendly aliens.

3. It's a chapter that ends in a cliffhanger and doesn't feel like a complete film without Return of the Jedi as the follow-up chapter.

4. All of the above.

5. None of the above.

[aiman04]

I'm a long time Star Wars fan too, I have all the books and documentaries I can find but never once I see anything even vaguely suggesting Lucas likes Empire the least.

[Darkstream]

Just did a quick Google search and I found this.

http://news.moviefone.com/2007/02/10...tar-wars-film/

http://www.slashfilm.com/geroge-luca...ar-wars-movie/

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Darkstream

Just did a quick Google search and I found this.

http://news.moviefone.com/2007/02/10...tar-wars-film/

http://www.slashfilm.com/geroge-luca...ar-wars-movie/

It's pretty obvious Lucas was joking there.

[Darkstream]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

It's pretty obvious Lucas was joking there.

If it was so obvious, people would not have been debating if he was joking or not. Though, looking back on it, I remmber always thinking he was joking, too. Still, it doesn't seem to have ever been clarified. And I still feel regardless of whatever his feeling are for Empire, he obviously did make big changes in tone with Return of the Jedi and the prequels afterwards.

[aiman04]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

It's pretty obvious Lucas was joking there.

It's too obvious. It's ridiculous how anyone could've misinterpreted that. His publicist won a publicity award for one of the best films co-written and produced by him. People complain about bad dialog in the prequels, but they can't even comprehend a simple joke.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Darkstream

If it was so obvious, people would not have been debating if he was joking or not.

Well, look at the way the articles are written. "Sometimes I’m not sure if Lucas is trying to be funny. In this case I really hope so. He can’t be that clueless, can he?", "Wow. Is there anyone besides Lucas who actually believes this?", etc. The writers are the usual anti-Lucas types that try to put a negative spin on everything he says and does.

If Lucas really did feel this way, would he be disrespectful enough to say it outright while handing out an award to someone associated with the film? Not really.

[Darkstream]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

Well, look at the way the articles are written. "Sometimes I’m not sure if Lucas is trying to be funny. In this case I really hope so. He can’t be that clueless, can he?", "Wow. Is there anyone besides Lucas who actually believes this?", etc. The writers are the usual anti-Lucas types that try to put a negative spin on everything he says and does.

If Lucas really did feel this way, would he be disrespectful enough to say it outright while handing out an award to someone associated with the film? Not really.

Don't shoot the messenger -- I agree with you. All I'm saying is that it was said and a lot of people never took it as a joke, so obviously it wasn't all that obvious.

Anyway, my whole point in bringing all this up was to say that ever since Empire, Lucas seemed to have added more and more of a light-hearted fun-factor to the later movies (excluding Revenge of the Sith), which resulted in a lot of fan criticism, and if any credence was to be given to the possibility of Lucas disfavoring Empire, I think it would reasonable to assume that it was because of the movie's darker tone.

[djakrse]

Sorry to interrupt....

STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS Trailer Won't Debut With THE HOBBIT?

[Darkstream]

Originally Posted by djakrse

STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS Trailer Won't Debut With THE HOBBIT?

[Al_The_Strange]

Well, none of us may ever know how Lucas really feels about TESB, but if the movie's commentary is any indication, it sounds like he was very uncertain about how well it would actually turn out and how well audiences would react to it. He was taking a lot of risks with the story - pulling off the twist, leaving it with a downer, leaving it open for ROTJ - he should be proud of the final result.

In other news, it's a bummer we still have to wait for a trailer. On the other hand, I don't mind the wait; I think I prefer less time between seeing the trailer and seeing the movie.

[DCW]

Originally Posted by djakrse

Sorry to interrupt....

STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS Trailer Won't Debut With THE HOBBIT?

If their source is correct the trailer will play with the hobbit still it'll just debu before it. Pretty great news if true!

[aiman04]

Supposedly a dialog spoken by Han in The Force Awakens:

[Show spoiler]"Chewie, we're back home!"

http://www.starwarsunderworld.com/20...e-awakens.html

I bet "Here we go again" and "I have a bad feeling" are in it as well.

[camper]

Originally Posted by aiman04

Supposedly a dialog spoken by Han in The Force Awakens:

[Show spoiler]"Chewie, we're back home!"

Just in time for Life Day!!

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Darkstream

Look, I'm a long time Star Wars fan, so please don't ask me for a source for something like that, when I may have possibly read that or even heard it from another source before there ever was an internet. I'm sure, if it was true, it's out there somewhere on the net...

But whether Empire was his least favorite or not isn't the main point I'm trying to make -- I'm just speculating on the whole idea that after Empire there seemed to be a lot more silly kid-stuff added to the Star Wars films (starting with Ewoks, then continuing years later with Jar-Jar, Watto, the skinny Battle droids, etc.) , and that maybe it was simply because Lucas wanted to add more of fun-factor to the films. Personally, I feel there was already enough of a fun-factor established with Star Wars (Ep. IV) and Empire (Ep. V), but maybe he wanted to lighten it up a bit more for the kiddies.

Of course Revenge of the Sith needed to be dark just based on the subject matter. Maybe that's also the reason why he felt Phantom Menace needed to be told the way it was: so that we have an additional chapter to start out with that was light and fun and extra kid-friendly in order to build up and contrast later with the inevitable Revenge of the Sith.

Folks seem to forget that Lucas became a father prior to Jedi and that's what changed his entire mindset IMO. In Dale Pollack's biography (which was done in and around the production of Jedi) Lucas made it clear 30+ years ago that he was now uncomfortable with the level of violence and even the amorality of certain characters in the prior SW films. (Hence the censoring of blaster hits and the neutering of Han for the 1997 SE of Star Wars, they're things that had bugged Lucas for decades.)

One could then ask "well what the **** happened to that cutesy 'protect the kiddies' mindset with Temple of Doom just a year later?", but by then Lucas was going through a messy divorce and was literally left holding the baby which is why the subject matter of that flick is so goddamned dark; beating hearts being torn from chests is a none-too-subtle metaphor for Lucas' feelings towards his ex-wife. That said, there's also plenty of utterly goofy comedy moments & characters in Temple, which ties into the line of thinking (that I agree with) that Phantom Menace was also made with such an overtly comedic touch because Sith was going to have to be so very, very dark.

That brings up another point, if Lucas was worried about kids & violence so much then why did Sith include such stuff with some particularly graphic imagery? Well, A: he'd kind of painted himself a corner with existing SW lore so he had to follow the story through to conclusion, e.g. crispy fried Vader, and B: his own kids were much older by that point and so he wasn't worried about warping their fragile little minds.

[djakrse]

Star Wars: The Force Awaken’s Chewbacca has already been seen!

[Show spoiler]"We’ve already seen Chewbacca! For reasons I can’t explain, there’s at least a few concepts for Chewbacca looking pretty much just like he’s always looked. But up first, our sources have confirmed that we’ve already seen Chewbacca. Back on May 4th when they showed us the Wookiee with his new Captain Bob Iger. Well, it was the real deal on Star Wars’ Official Instagram page.

I’ve spoken to two people have seen Chewie from The Force Awakens. One has seen photography of the Wookiee and another has seen him in person at Pinewood. Both said the lighting and filter probably play a little bit with his look above. In their opinion, he is a little darker with a few grey hairs here and there, but nothing drastic compared to his Return of the Jedi costume. Both noted that Chewie had more color in his fur for the Return of the Jedi. Both also commented how much happier they were with the costume over the Revenge of the Sith version, which was only meant to be used for a few shots.

Admittedly, it sounds a bit dumb saying the official Star Wars Instagram page shared an official pic. But we weren’t sure if it was a promo costume for an event or something. Well, it was for The Force Awakens. So we saw Chewbacca from the film about seven months ago. Meaning we’ve only seen Artoo-Detoo and Chewbacca officially.

Two of the Chewbacca concepts do not feature a robotic hand, as mentioned before. One has Chewbacca with his classic slouch, but I think its a little more exaggerated, but that may be because of the art style more than his age. He has his bowcaster and classic bandolier. The second one is a profile shot of Chewie. He looks a little healthier. I wouldn’t say he’s fat, but he’s put on a little bit of weight. This one has a little more grey shown in his fur, but nothing really major.

It doesn’t seem like they played much with the classic design of the best damn Wookiee I’ve ever had the pleasure of meeting. The dude was already two hundred years old when we met him the first time. He’s probably only aged a decade in Wookiee time. Oh yeah, Legends fans, don’t point me towards some Wookiee life-span fact somewhere. That was just a joke."

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

That brings up another point, if Lucas was worried about kids & violence so much then why did Sith include such stuff with some particularly graphic imagery? Well, A: he'd kind of painted himself a corner with existing SW lore so he had to follow the story through to conclusion, e.g. crispy fried Vader, and B: his own kids were much older by that point and so he wasn't worried about warping their fragile little minds.

Any kids who had seen Phantom Menace were 6 years older at the point Sith was released. Same reason the Harry Potter films "matured" as the series went on. Compare Order of the Phoenix to Sorcerer's Stone/Philosopher's Stone.


No painted corners at all.