Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Didn't Lucas or McCallum say the Force is like a calm lake, and the Sith were causing waves and ripples, so restoring balance meant stopping what was causing the waves and ripples? Something like that. I am but a simple unfrozen caveman. Your modern world frightens and confuses me.

I'd trust the EU before I trust a word out of Post 1990's Lucas mouth

[Al_The_Strange]

Originally Posted by Roonan

Again, it's not balance of the Jedi and Sith, it's balance of the Force. Since the Sith are causing imbalance, their destruction would restore it.

Once again, Jedi and Sith are not the light and dark side of the Force. The Jedi, by default, don't affect the balance of the Force because they are selfless and have a somewhat simbiotic relation with it. The Sith don't. They exploit it and by doing so bring the Force out of balance. They are like a disease.

What? That's not how it works. Balance happens when Anakin returns and destroys his Vader persona and the Emperor. The destruction of the Sith bring balance.

As I conduct research on the topic, I find that my conceptions of these issues may have been incorrect. I apologize.

The fact remains that by the end of ROTJ, both the Jedi and Sith are destroyed as organizations. Whether the balance of the Force is brought on by the destruction of both or just the destruction of the Sith, it is balanced in either case. I really don't expect either group to return in TFA. If they do, then great! Otherwise, bring on the new stuff.

Originally Posted by Roonan

No, they weren't. Anakin only commented about Padmé's assassination, nothing more.

Why was it flaky? It seems logical that such investigation be given to a Jedi Knight than a mere Padawan with no experience of his own.

Anakin was the one who insisted on finding the parties responsible for the destruction of Padme's shuttle. He was brushed off. Only when Padme's life was endangered again did the council take action, without acknowledging that Anakin wanted to in the beginning. They put him on protection duty, which was nothing more than a babysitting job. The investigation is a job that Anakin suggested from the beginning and he was able and willing to do it, but they passed it on to Obi-Wan. While it's true that Obi-Wan is more qualified, they could have at least explained that to him, instead of just telling him no.

Now put yourself in Anakin's shoes. Wouldn't you feel betrayed and spiteful?

Originally Posted by Roonan

Could you provide an example?

I would have thought the whole issue with investigating the Zam/Jango Fett lead would have sufficed - it was Anakin's prerogative, but it was taken away from him.

Even from the beginning though, the council said "no" to a lot of issues. They denied to train him, but only conceded when Qui-Gon perished, as a last wish of sorts. They denied Anakin becoming a master. The Council may have good reasons for their denials (although I personally feel like it's mostly mistrust), but they never really give a good reason behind their decisions. So what's Anakin to think? What's the audience to think?

Originally Posted by Roonan

One could argue that Anakin was the one who didn't really listen or cared.

One could argue that, but why didn't the Council work with him to change his attitude?

Originally Posted by Roonan

Politics had nothing to do with Anakin's manipulation by Palpatine. Attachment was what Palpatine used to exploit and turn him.

Why not both? It's true that Palpatine blatantly used Anakin's feelings to lure him in to the Dark Side, but Anakin expressed his political views in Episode II (even jokingly, it was foreshadowing of the Empire). He expressed plenty of frustration over the way things were run, and he expressed how much he liked Palpatine and his ideas. Politically, the two were a perfect match, and it made their relationship more lucrative.

Originally Posted by Roonan

Issues that were cause by his own impatience and lack of discipline. Still, he could have done the right thing at the crutial moment of Palpatine's arrest/destruction in Episode III, but he didn't.

Originally Posted by Roonan

It's Anakin who should have adapted and followed the Jedi way, not the other way around.

If he was unhappy with the Jedi and wanted to stay with Padmé, he was free to do so. But he was greedy and wanted the best of both worlds. Well, the world doesn't work like that. He was the one who needed to adapt and make a choice.

I believe these are issues that could have been easily rectified if the Council, and Obi-Wan, taught Anakin proper responsibility, discipline, patience, and more. Nothing in the movies indicate that he learned and understood those concepts at all; the Council may have told him what to do, but never why. It allowed bad feelings to manifest and fester. If he did actually learn why the Council made their decisions, and how to be disciplined, he could have conformed to the Jedi Council better. Therefore, I see it a failure of the institution (or possibly, failure of Obi-Wan specifically, who himself was deeply a part of the institution).

I suppose Anakin could have just left the Council and lived happily ever after with Padme. I remember Lucas himself talked about how Anakin really did want it all and the more he tried to grasp, the less he was able to hold onto. The question remains, why didn't someone teach him that he couldn't have it all?

Originally Posted by Roonan

Yes, but only the audience knows about that. Not the characters.

When did the Council refuse to fight and investigate anything? And what leads should the Jedi have followed that would allow them to catch Palpatine?

This will all boil down to how the plotting went and how Lucas wrote the thing. I'm just saying as an alternate "what if" scenario, IF everything was different and the Jedi were more intuitive, they could have found something (I don't know what, maybe found out Sidious' hiding place on Coruscant or something) to lead them to Palpatine. Anakin found out in his own way, why couldn't Windu, Yoda, or the others (regardless of the "shroud of the Dark Side")?

Things played out the way they did, partly because the Dark Side blinded them, but also because the Jedi were oblivious as they focused on their age-old doctrine of protecting the Republic and maintaining the status quo.

Originally Posted by Roonan

Blind devotion to what? Palpatine used the dark side to literally blind the Jedi. They comment about it throughout the movies.

They were devoted to protecting the Republic. In addition to upholding centuries-old standards of how to live and how to use the Force and everything. How can the Jedi Order be expected to handle change this way?

I believe Palpatine recognized that they couldn't, and they manipulated that aspect of it.

Originally Posted by Roonan

When were they inflexible? How were they easily manipulated? If I throw a rock at you, should I blame you for not seeing that coming? If I actively hide without you knowing, should I blame you for not seeing me? Do you see the flaw in your logic?

Yes, I can be expected to dodge a rock and know where you're hiding, especially if I'm a Jedi. They were charged with protecting the Republic; how could they if they can't see (figurative) rocks being flung at them, or (figurative) figures hiding in the shadows?

Politically, I believe the Republic could blame the Jedi for failing to see certain threats if they emerge. It might not seem logical or right, but even in real life, people make baseless accusations all the time.

Originally Posted by Roonan

How is that compelling?

Maybe it's just me, but I believe there is an inherent power in passion. To be passionate sounds much more compelling to me than being all stiff like a Jedi, and rejecting things like passion from one's life. Thus, I can understand the Sith perspective. It's not necessarily a good or right perspective, but being able to relate to it helps highlight problems I see with the Jedi Order (although it's clear to me that these are issues that not all of us can agree on).

Originally Posted by Roonan

At the cost of everything and everyone.

Hey...no argument there. It take it that the Sith are undisciplined, which makes Anakin a perfect fit for them. But then if the Jedi could have rectified that if they made him understand things on a deeper level.

Originally Posted by Roonan

On the contrary. Anakin explains very well how the Jedi see love, compassion and attachment. He broke the tenets while being fully aware of the consequences.

Originally Posted by Roonan

The Sith don't know love. They know passion, greed, attachment, fear, etc... The Jedi know the problems that arise from those who fall into those feeling, that's why they avoid them.

It's true that the Jedi have this view of love at an all-encompassing scope, but they shun individualized attachments and relationships. Without those experiences, they don't know how to handle personal feelings, lust, and desire maturely. At least that's how I view things.

Where I live, I'm surrounded by people who avoid a lot of things considered "sinful." I can't help but to think to myself that moderation can allow one to enjoy such things without being corrupted. People don't learn moderation or responsibility if they avoid everything. I believe the Jedi are the same way with issues like love; if they don't experience it, how can they learn to handle it?

Originally Posted by Roonan

The Jedi don't seek power for power sake. They seek knowledge, wisdom, and acept life and death willingly.

So? Someone had to be the first. And the ability to retain their identity after death is something a Sith could never do due to their very nature.

With no evidence whatsoever.

I wanted to bring up the Force Ghost thing as an example of the Jedi's untapped potential. I guess that's a bad example, sorry. Also, I forgot that the Sith don't come back as Force Ghosts...at least not that we've seen.

I think my point above still stands, and because the Jedi never learned as much as they could.

Overall, I really felt it was implicit, but clear, that the Jedi Order suffered certain problems that contributed to the plot and to Anakin's downfall; all of which plays out as if it was fated to. I don't recall any instance in which the Order actually taught Anakin the discipline he needed to stay on the right path, but there are instances where the Order seemed stiff and controlling without explaining themselves or making anybody understand their reasons.

I understand your viewpoint, but I'm sorry to say that I don't think I agree; the Jedi Order was meant to be the bastion of knowledge and wisdom and all that good stuff, but I don't think they were at their prime in the PT. I think they were stagnant and complacent. Geoff and aiman probably explained it better than I did though. I see it as one of many factors that play into the PT. I don't mean to demean or offend you - I think we can watch and appreciate the films with either of our viewpoints in effect - but next time I see the films, I'll have to think about it more critically and identify what exactly substantiates either case.

[coolkev1701]

I'm going to create and run a huge intergalactic conglomerate whose sole product will be The Force. You need The Force? You don't have any Force? We'll sell it to you. You running low on Force? We'll make some more and top you off. It'll be huge. People will go nuts for the stuff.

[Scorpion Soldier]

Looks like The Force Awakens will be taking over IMAX screens for a whole month:

Star Wars: The Force Awakens Will Take Over IMAX For A Month

When you launch a brand-new Star Wars trilogy, you go big. Like, IMAX big.

That’s why Star Wars: The Force Awakens will populate every single U.S. IMAX screening for four weeks straight. In a move that the Galactic Empire might applaud, The Force Awakens will overtake all IMAX screenings starting December 18, bumping out competitors like The Revenant and In the Heart of the Sea.

While blocking four weeks of scheduling for one film isn't a completely unprecedented move for IMAX, it is rare. The last and only time they attempted such a feat was for Peter Jackson's Hobbit films. According to The Hollywood Reporter, The Force Awakens will open 375 to 400 IMAX screens domestically, carrying the potential to crush the IMAX box office record that Jurassic World currently holds.

Will you see The Force Awakens in IMAX? Let us know in the comments!

Star Wars: The Force Awakens opens in theaters and IMAX on December 18. And to see when subsequent Star Wars films hit theaters, head to ComicBook.com’s franchise movie release schedule!

http://comicbook.com/2015/08/26/star...x-for-a-month/
Didn't expect it any other way though, The Hobbit did it and a most films with IMAX footage have for extended periods of time as well. Not complaining though, will give me enough time to see it 3 or 4 times haha

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Scorpion Soldier

Looks like The Force Awakens will be taking over IMAX screens for a whole month:

http://comicbook.com/2015/08/26/star...x-for-a-month/
Didn't expect it any other way though, The Hobbit did it and a most films with IMAX footage have for extended periods of time as well. Not complaining though, will give me enough time to see it 3 or 4 times haha

Still want to see it in Dolby Cinema (4K HDR + Atmos) first.

[Spike M.]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Still want to see it in Dolby Cinema (4K HDR + Atmos) first.

Problem is it'll probably be 3D, so you can go ahead and subtract the 4K part of that equation.

I'm still anxious to find out if the movie will be getting a 4K 3D DI, and if the new IMAX lasers can play that. The DCP spec can't, but IMAX sort of does their own thing.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Spike M.

Problem is it'll probably be 3D, so you can go ahead and subtract the 4K part of that equation.

Dolby Cinema doesn't have to be 3D. Saw Inside Out in the format in 2D.

Seeing the film for one sequence in IMAX is much less appealing.

[Himmel]

Wanna know what the final shot of The Force Awakens MIGHT be???

[Show spoiler]A slow zoom out shot of Skellig Michael Island

http://www.starwars7news.com/2015/08...ael-shoot.html

[Himmel]

What happens when you combine DAFT PUNK with STAR WARS

Darth Punk: The Funk Awakens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qhbKGc5rVM

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Terminated

What happens when you combine DAFT PUNK with STAR WARS

Darth Punk: The Funk Awakens.

I watched that earlier.

Lord Vader REEEEEALLLLY needs to hit the treadmill.

(and maybe invest in some platform shoes)

[goeagles5039]

I live in the Delaware/Maryland area. Where is the best Imax theater closest to me?

[Spike M.]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Dolby Cinema doesn't have to be 3D. Saw Inside Out in the format in 2D.

Seeing the film for one sequence in IMAX is much less appealing.

Well, you're still hedging your bets on A.) Whether Disney wants to spend the extra $$ for a 4K3D DI, and B.) Whether or not Dolby would want to do 3D for the simple fact of marketing to the exact same audience as IMAX.

A lot of their earlier stuff, Inside Out included, and now currently American Ultra, weren't/aren't competing with IMAX. Venders still see that extra add on "3D" as good marketing.

[poke smot]

Originally Posted by goeagles5039

I live in the Delaware/Maryland area. Where is the best Imax theater closest to me?

Google is your friend. Would you like me to cut your steak too?

Sorry just kidding. I'm bored.

[Al_The_Strange]

Originally Posted by goeagles5039

I live in the Delaware/Maryland area. Where is the best Imax theater closest to me?

Doesn't look like much. Since we don't know exactly where you are in one of these two states, I guess the best choice is the Maryland Science Center? It's your call.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Spike M.

Well, you're still hedging your bets on A.) Whether Disney wants to spend the extra $$ for a 4K3D DI, and B.) Whether or not Dolby would want to do 3D for the simple fact of marketing to the exact same audience as IMAX.

3D isn't a must either since it's a conversion. 4K 2D HDR on a HUGE screen will be more than adequate.

When I see it in IMAX it will be 3D anyway.

[Col. Zombie]

Originally Posted by Roonan

That's not balance. The movies talk about balance of the Force, not balance of the Jedi and Sith. The Sith cause imbalance, therefore restoring balance to the Force requires the destruction of the Sith.

Of course it's balance. When one side has more than the other and the larger side is whittled down to the approximate size of its counter, that's balance.

You either have no idea what you're talking about or you're intentionally baiting. In either case, whatever.

Originally Posted by Roonan

Not liking something (1) doesn't make it pointless (2).

In every case conceivable, those two ideas are one in the same. Your point is...pointless.

[CinemaBlu]

Originally Posted by Col. Zombie

Of course it's balance. When one side has more than the other and the larger side is whittled down to the approximate size of its counter, that's balance.

You either have no idea what you're talking about or you're intentionally baiting. In either case, whatever.
.

Or the third case, you're wrong and Roonan is right.

I happen to agree with Roonan.

The Jedi alone are the stewards of the force's balance. They aren't the yin to the Sith's yang. The Jedi transcend both yin and yang. The Sith however are so one sided, and corrupted the force to such a degree, that the force reacted against it by creating the "Chosen One" who would ultimately defeat them and restore balance. That's how Darth Plagueis, a Sith, was able to manipulate the force to create life.

[aiman04]

New image:



http://www.starwarsunderworld.com/20...uncovered.html

[Himmel]

Empire reveals final Star Wars The Force Awakens cover plus new pics!







http://makingstarwars.net/2015/08/em...-and-new-pics/

[levcore]

Star Wars: Fury Road