Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Forever Knight

You haven't heard of Dawn of the Jedi yet you seem to know everything of the EU based on those comments.

Plus nothing from the new canon has contradicted anything in the timeline of the EU...yet.



It boggles my mind how anyone can be a Star Wars fan and not even know the origins of the force, lightsabers, Jedi, Sith, etc. Do you guys think it just popped out of nowhere and BAM! Phantom Menace begins? lol

For me, as a "Star Wars fan", things were explained quite well in the original film and The Empire Strikes Back. I could not care less about some officially-licensed fan fiction, which is all the EU ever was.

[tilapiah6]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

For me, as a "Star Wars fan", things were explained quite well in the original film and The Empire Strikes Back. I could not care less about some officially-licensed fan fiction, which is all the EU ever was.

I couldn't agree more. The way I see it, if it's not worth including in the official movies, then it's not worth knowing. It's for this reason that the prequels frustrate me; the battle at the beginning of ep. III, sending two Jedi to resolve a trade dispute in ep I, it all just makes so little sense. The original trilogy does a great job of being contained, coherent stories without having to seek out fan fiction to explain things.

[Thomas Guycott]

Originally Posted by Forever Knight

You haven't heard of Dawn of the Jedi yet you seem to know everything of the EU based on those comments.

It's entirely possible to be a Star Wars fan--and even be a big fan of the EU/Legacy--and not be familiar with every little thing released under the umbrella.

[Forever Knight]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I could not care less about some officially-licensed fan fiction, which is all the EU ever was.

It's fine to be a movie-only SW fan, I'm not saying anything against it. What I am saying is the movies don't scratch even the surface of what Star Wars truly is and for anyone to think Phantom Menace is the beginning would be like me saying The Dark Knight was the beginning of the Nolan Batman story.

Originally Posted by Thomas Guycott

It's entirely possible to be a Star Wars fan--and even be a big fan of the EU/Legacy--and not be familiar with every little thing released under the umbrella.

But it would be okay to at least know things if you want to even consider yourself a fan of the EU. It's like saying you love Pro Wrestling but have no idea who Hulk Hogan was. At least know the basic history no?

[JamesBenjamin]

Originally Posted by Forever Knight

It's fine to be a movie-only SW fan, I'm not saying anything against it. What I am saying is the movies don't scratch even the surface of what Star Wars truly is and for anyone to think Phantom Menace is the beginning would be like me saying The Dark Knight was the beginning of the Nolan Batman story.



But it would be okay to at least know things if you want to even consider yourself a fan of the EU. It's like saying you love Pro Wrestling but have no idea who Hulk Hogan was. At least know the basic history no?

That's not really an apt comparison. Hulk Hogan was the biggest superstar of the 80s. So he's the "Han Solo" in this comparison. If you want to compare to wrestlers you'd have to pick a guy from the 90s that was only pro for 6 months or something.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Forever Knight

It's fine to be a movie-only SW fan, I'm not saying anything against it. What I am saying is the movies don't scratch even the surface of what Star Wars truly is and for anyone to think Phantom Menace is the beginning would be like me saying The Dark Knight was the beginning of the Nolan Batman story.

Wouldn't it be more like a Batman fan saying s/he hadn't read a certain run of the comics or has never watched the 60s TV show or the any of the 40s serials?

[Forever Knight]

Originally Posted by JamesBenjamin

That's not really an apt comparison. Hulk Hogan was the biggest superstar of the 80s. So he's the "Han Solo" in this comparison. If you want to compare to wrestlers you'd have to pick a guy from the 90s that was only pro for 6 months or something.

and without the 80's Hogan we wouldn't have gotten the '90s Hogan or nWo Hollywood Hogan etc.. Origins is the point I'm trying to make. But I guess not everyone wants all the info available on certain things which is fine and that's why we have different categories of fans (not saying one category is better than the other).

Originally Posted by octagon

Wouldn't it be more like a Batman fan saying s/he hadn't read a certain run of the comics or has never watched the 60s TV show or the any of the 40s serials?

The comics and 60s show isn't canon to the Batman movies so not really. I know the EU is now not canon but it WAS.

[JamesBenjamin]

Originally Posted by Forever Knight

and without the 80's Hogan we wouldn't have gotten the '90s Hogan or nWo Hollywood Hogan etc.. Origins is the point I'm trying to make. But I guess not everyone wants all the info available on certain things which is fine and that's why we have different categories of fans (not saying one category is better than the other).



The comics and 60s show isn't canon to the Batman movies so not really. I know the EU is now not canon but it WAS.

You missed my point. The EU existed, but it has never been at the same "canon level" as the movies, and of ALL star wars fans, maybe 10 percent have read one book and maybe 3 percent have read most of the EU books. So chastising someone for not knowing one particular run of comics isn't like saying a wrestling fan should know Hulk Hogan. Hence the comparison of X random EU comic/book to X random wrestler from 1995.

[Forever Knight]

Originally Posted by JamesBenjamin

You missed my point. The EU existed, but it has never been at the same "canon level" as the movies, and of ALL star wars fans, maybe 10 percent have read one book and maybe 3 percent have read most of the EU books. So chastising someone for not knowing one particular run of comics isn't like saying a wrestling fan should know Hulk Hogan. Hence the comparison of X random EU comic/book to X random wrestler from 1995.

How do you know the EU wasn't in the same canon level as the movies?

Ya' know, for a bunch of people who haven't read the EU stuff you guys sure know all about it lol.

[JamesBenjamin]

Also I don't like the idea of there being "real" star wars fans or people who are "better" star wars fans because they've read or know the EU (or any other thing).

I consider myself a pretty big SW fan. EU wise, I've read Shadows of the Empire, its comic, and played the N64 game through. I've read the Thrawn trilogy. I started the X-wing series but couldn't get into it. I've owned 3 or 4 versions of the OT over the years, have the original ST on vinyl. I've also seen all the Animated stuff (from CW forward) So there's plenty I haven't read, but that doesn't make me "less" of a fan.

When I met my wife one of the things we clicked on right away was a love of Star Wars. Once we were about a year in I realized she wasn't as familiar with all the minor things as I was (I slaughtered her in SW Trivial Pursuit) but that doesn't mean she's less of a fan than me. There's also a guy at my office with an Admiral Ackbar figure on his desk. I can guarantee he's never read a SW book, but he's still a fan, same as you and me. I'd certainly never rip him for not knowing about a Dark Horse comic series from the 90s.

Have you seen Sideways? One can certainly enjoy a glass of decent wine without being a wine snob. Star Wars (or anything else) is the same way.

[JamesBenjamin]

Originally Posted by Forever Knight

How do you know the EU wasn't in the same canon level as the movies?

Ya' know, for a bunch of people who haven't read the EU stuff you guys sure know all about it lol.

How are you not aware of the different levels of SW canon? G, T, S, N canon?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_canon

Things don't count unless they do. Its always been this way till they reset canon with the Disney purchase.

[Forever Knight]

Originally Posted by JamesBenjamin

How are you not aware of the different levels of SW canon? G, T, S, N canon?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_canon

Things don't count unless they do. Its always been this way till they reset canon with the Disney purchase.

I am completely aware of this. I go by a canon that includes eu, movies, and tv shows, to me that is complete. Starting at Phantom Menace feels incomplete to me. There are no origins shown of The Force, Jedi, Sith, etc., it's really just the origins of the main characters (Leia, Luke, Anikin, Palpatine).

This bullshit of this canon and that canon is crap to me. The only thing that has changed is Skywalker's wife and we don't even know if that's the case yet considering Force Awakens is so far apart from RoTJ so that could have happened too.

[JamesBenjamin]

Originally Posted by Forever Knight

I am completely aware of this. I got by a canon that includes eu, movies, and tv shows, to me that is complete. This bullshit of this canon and that canon is crap to me. The only thing that has changed is Skywalker's wife and we don't even know if that's the case yet considering Force Awakens is so far apart from RoTJ so that could have happened too.

Ok, so you're not talking "official" canon, you're talking about your own personal head-canon. That's fine.

But my original point still stands: Hulk Hogan within context of pro wrestling is not the same as a random comic series from the 90s within the context of SW. Hogan is a massive superstar that just about EVERYONE recognizes due to his massive presence in pop culture over 40ish years. That one comic you were chiding the other guy over is not something that has had the cultural familiarity of Hulk Hogan.

Just because you read it doesn't mean its one of the most important things to Star Wars (as Hulk Hogan is for pro Wrestling).

An apt comparison would either be comparing that comic to a random wrestler guy from 1995 who was around for six months *OR* comparing Hulk Hogan to Han Solo, as both Hogan and Solo are so familiar within pop culture that 90% of people would have an idea who that guy was if shown a picture.

[Forever Knight]

Originally Posted by JamesBenjamin

Ok, so you're not talking "official" canon, you're talking about your own personal head-canon. That's fine.

I like this term and will go by it from now on.

[DJMcNiff]

Originally Posted by Forever Knight

I am completely aware of this. I go by a canon that includes eu, movies, and tv shows, to me that is complete. Starting at Phantom Menace feels incomplete to me. There are no origins shown of The Force, Jedi, Sith, etc., it's really just the origins of the main characters (Leia, Luke, Anikin, Palpatine).

This bullshit of this canon and that canon is crap to me. The only thing that has changed is Skywalker's wife and we don't even know if that's the case yet considering Force Awakens is so far apart from RoTJ so that could have happened too.

Though what are you going to do when gaps are filled in the official canon that contradict your "head-canon"?

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Forever Knight

I like this term and will go by it from now on.

Use it sparingly.

[Doctor Jack]

Why can't everyone just enjoy what they enjoy whether it's official canon or not? If it brings you joy, then who the hell cares if it is "official". If you want to consider fan fiction part of the universe, fine. It doesn't matter. But I guess then you won't be "real" Star Wars fans. But then again, who cares if you are considered a "real" fan or not? I guess only the people who consider themselves "real" fans. Can't infringe on their Star Wars superiority.

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Forever Knight

It's fine to be a movie-only SW fan, I'm not saying anything against it. What I am saying is the movies don't scratch even the surface of what Star Wars truly is

GEORGE LUCAS couldn't be bothered to read those books, and he ignored them whenever it pleased him. If the EU was canon, then the fight between Luke and Vader in Empire Strikes Back makes no sense, because Luke cut his arm off and kicked him down into a deep pit in Shadow of the Mind's Eye. Chewie's dead. Boba Fett's alive, Owen Lars is Ben Kenobi's brother, and clones of Palpatine and Luke are mucking about (while Luke prime turns to the Dark Side to see what it's like)...this stuff isn't "the basic history", it's a person sitting at a desk staring at a calendar with a deliverable date, thinking, "Guess I better get cracking on this thing and see what stuff I can make up."

[Ernest Rister]

Yeah, yeah, I know...Splinter of the Mind's Eye. For some strange reason, the iPad won't let me edit my posts sometimes, just won't recognize the edit button.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Yeah, yeah, I know...Splinter of the Mind's Eye. For some strange reason, the iPad won't let me edit my posts sometimes, just won't recognize the edit button.

I get the same thing, I can't edit my post if it's at the very top of a page.