HDR Discussion Thread

[Penton-Man]

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...d#post18184560
follow-up to the exclusive day and date heads-up from ^

now public, tune in tomorrow to GMA to watch said brand new trailer for -

[puddy77]

https://www.theverge.com/21524288/ap...-12-pro-review

So the iPhone shooting HDR video by default, out of the box, is a big deal.

I’ve been saying “HDR” this whole time, not “Dolby Vision.” That’s because Dolby Vision is one kind of HDR — a format — and there are lots of HDR formats. With lots of formats come compatibility problems. And, yep, Dolby Vision on the iPhone 12 has some compatibility problems — but not as many problems as I feared. Apple and Dolby have done something very smart to ensure long-term compatibility at the cost of some short-term incompatibility.

Dolby Vision and the rival HDR10 format are what’s called perceptual quantizer (PQ) HDR systems. And PQ systems are not backwards compatible with SDR displays, meaning Dolby Vision video has only been compatible with Dolby Vision displays. (Playing a Dolby Vision video on a non-Dolby Vision display would look completely wrong.) If you wanted to watch a Dolby Vision video on a regular display, you would have to re-encode it into SDR — basically, make an entirely new video file.

But the iPhone 12 shoots video in a newer version of Dolby Vision called Profile 8.4 that’s built on a standard called HLG, or hybrid log-gamma. HLG works differently than PQ systems; it was developed by broadcasters like the BBC and NHK to be backwards compatible with SDR displays so they would only have to broadcast one video stream.

All this means that an iPhone 12 HDR video is a 10-bit HLG file with additional Dolby Vision metadata on top, and it will happily play back as SDR on SDR displays, HLG on HLG displays, and Dolby Vision on Dolby Vision displays that support Profile 8.4. And iOS 14 is smart enough to know when the apps and devices you’re sharing video to don’t support this new format, and it’ll make sure you send something that works. It is all very clever, even though, in practice, what it means is you’re mostly sharing SDR video.

There’s a catch. (Of course.) Dolby Vision Profile 8.4 is a new version of Dolby Vision, and that means a bunch of older Dolby Vision gear out there needs to be updated to support it. So I can’t promise you any random Dolby Vision TV with AirPlay 2 will play back iPhone 12 Pro video in Dolby Vision. You’ll have to check to see if your TV supports Profile 8.4. Dieter’s older Vizio P65 has AirPlay 2 but played back iPhone 12 Dolby Vision video in SDR. My 2016 LG B6 OLED supports Dolby Vision but not profile 8.4, and it wouldn’t play an iPhone 12 video file from a USB stick at all. It’s also old enough now that it’ll probably never get another software update to do so. And so on.

That said, new TVs will naturally support the newest versions of Dolby Vision, and you can always just plug in an Apple TV 4K and AirPlay to that. (The way iPhone 12 Dolby Vision video works with an Apple TV is wonky, though: you have to run the Apple TV in Dolby Vision mode all the time to make it work. If you are a sane person and use your Apple TV in SDR with “match content” turned on, you will still always see SDR video from an iPhone 12. I hope Apple fixes this very quickly.)

Oh, and if you have a Mac, Dolby Vision video won’t be supported until macOS Big Sur comes out, and we don’t really know when that’s going to be. I also don’t know when the likes of Instagram and TikTok and YouTube will support Dolby Vision video from the iPhone; right now, you will see your videos in SDR when shared to those platforms. (YouTube supports HDR video right now, but only in HLG and HDR10. Formats!)

So Dolby Vision video on the iPhone is a little complicated, and there will be some compatibility goofiness at the start. But over time, I’d expect it to fade away. TV manufacturers and social platforms have a lot of incentives to figure out how to play back people’s iPhone videos well, after all.

And in the meantime, it’s true that most people watch their smartphone videos on their smartphones, and iPhone 12 Dolby Vision video looks very bright and colorful on the iPhone 12 Pro and other newer iPhones and iPads that support HDR. I’m excited it’s there and am even more excited it is the default.

[Geoff D]

Dolby have taken up HLG, mind blown

[DanBa]

AFAIU, Dolby Vision 8.4 signal = HLG signal + DV metadata

At the reception of DV 8.4, HLG-"only" displays simply ignore the DV metadata, and DV 8.4 displays carry out the DV display adaptation
(HLG-"only" displays = HLG SDR/HLG HDR-"only" displays).

DV 8.4 was described in "DV Profiles and levels V1.3 - 25 October 2018".





Dolby Vision 8.1 signal = PQ10 / HDR10 signal + DV metadata

At the reception of DV 8.1, HDR10-only displays simply ignore the DV metadata, and DV 8.1 displays carry out the DV display adaptation.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DanBa

Dolby Vision 8.1 signal

shades of the evolution of 8 from nearly 2 years ago - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...1#post15768174

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...d#post18184560
follow-up to the exclusive day and date heads-up from ^

now public, tune in tomorrow to GMA to watch said brand new trailer for -

Raya and the Last Dragon | Official Teaser Trailer - YouTube

I think many folks might be surprised as to how long Raya and the Last Dragon has been in development….finally coming to fruition

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

shades of the evolution of 8 from nearly 2 years ago - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...1#post15768174

I remember downloading that, the OPPO just played it back in HDR10.

[Waboman]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Raya and the Last Dragon | Official Teaser Trailer - YouTube

I think many folks might be surprised as to how long Raya and the Last Dragon has been in development….finally coming to fruition

Never heard of it. Is this another Top Gun thing?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I remember downloading that, the OPPO just played it back in HDR10.

with regards to 8.1, correct, you are the quintessential investigator and have a good memory , scroll a couple posts down past - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...1#post15768174

I think I replied on one of the following pages back then

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Waboman

Never heard of it.

You’ve never heard of it because you’re not an Insider and it’s been kept under wraps for a long time.

Originally Posted by Waboman

Is this another Top Gun thing?

Not really, see - https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/c...ailer-73731826

[Waboman]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

You’ve never heard of it because you’re not an Insider and it’s been kept under wraps for a long time.

Not really, see - https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/c...ailer-73731826

You say it like it’s the cure for cancer. But kept under wraps until the world is ready. Lol. Looks like the typical run of the mill animated movie the studios churn out. Might watch when on Disney+. As for not being an insider in Epsteinwood, thank goodness. You can keep it.

[Staying Salty]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Dolby have taken up HLG, mind blown

“One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.”

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Waboman

You say it like it’s the cure for cancer. But kept under wraps until the world is ready. Lol. Looks like the typical run of the mill animated movie the studios churn out. Might watch when on Disney+. As for not being an insider in Epsteinwood, thank goodness. You can keep it.

wow, someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed. What’s up, the snow blower conked out on you and the driveway is otherwise impassible and now freezing over? Hey, I would’ve thought you’d be appreciative of exclusive information before it’s been announced, no matter the genre or studio - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...th#post4453123

and the contribution of follow-ups: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ls#post4759362

guess not

Raya and the Last Dragon may not become as successful as Frozen II, but I hope it does well given the dedicated work put in by all those behind the scenes.

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by Staying Salty

“One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.”

Ha ha. Kitty humor. Right up Geoff’s alley.

[Oniiz86]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I remember downloading that, the OPPO just played it back in HDR10.

The OPPOs had the latest Dolby Vision SDK at the time with their final update back in Feb 2019, is it still the case that the OPPOs can't detect the DV 8.1 profile?

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by DanBa

AFAIU, Dolby Vision 8.4 signal = HLG signal + DV metadata

At the reception of DV 8.4, HLG-"only" displays simply ignore the DV metadata, and DV 8.4 displays carry out the DV display adaptation
(HLG-"only" displays = HLG SDR/HLG HDR-"only" displays).

DV 8.4 was described in "DV Profiles and levels V1.3 - 25 October 2018".

Thanks, so contrary to what that article says, it's not a new version of Dolby Vision at all, it's just one of MANY Profiles that Dolby Vision can use?

I've also seen posts where people have claimed that "Profile 5" == "the Low Latency Dolby Vision Profile" == "Player-Led Dolby Vision". I can see how they got to that idea, but MY understanding is that "Player-Led Dolby Vision" is when the Player decodes ANY Dolby Vision profile at all - not just Profile 5 - and does a lot of the work because the TV's hardware is too weak to cope, and sends an already-tonemapped signal over HDMI to the TV.

Otherwise, "Player-Led Dolby Vision" which plays back 4k Blu-rays (which are Profile 7 are they not) wouldn't be a thing, and no Sony TV in the world would be able to display the output of a 4k Blu-ray disc player.

How many different methods of "versioning" are we going to have with Dolby Vision? We have the word "Profile", the word "Version", etc. It's a minefield. I'm aware of "version 2.9" and "version 4.0", but I thought they are to do with the tools on the mastering side of things.

Is is not just the case, thanks to their "fully closed ecosystem", that Dolby issue new code to the manufacturers to build into firmware updates for all Dolby-Vision capable devices out in the world? The manufacturers can't do it. Their devices are mere transporters for Dolby's code running on each device.

After all, Dolby wanted to have a closed, proprietary ecosystem. So Dolby have to now step up and take on responsibility for upgrades and maintenance of the entire end-to-end experience, and that definitely includes older playback devices and displays, just as much as it means newer ones.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Oniiz86

The OPPOs had the latest Dolby Vision SDK at the time with their final update back in Feb 2019, is it still the case that the OPPOs can't detect the DV 8.1 profile?

Just tried the 4K60 glass blowing clip again, first time it crashed the OPPO and second time it did exactly what it did before: played back in HDR10, it ignores the DV component completely.

[lgans316]

Another weird partnership...

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1603256543

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Just tried the 4K60 glass blowing clip again, first time it crashed the OPPO and second time it did exactly what it did before: played back in HDR10, it ignores the DV component completely.

No crashes on my 2018 LG C8 via USB, but it only plays as HDR10. . [And gets a thumbnail, which is a giveaway. The Profile 5 Dolby Vision version of the same video doesn't get a thumbnail, but plays as Dolby Vision]

Dolby really needs to pull its finger out and rapidly upgrade all the devices currently in use to recognise and support fully Profile 8.1/8.2/8.4. There will surely be a huge glut of Dolby Vision files being created and distributed by the people who are buying those telephones, and there will be mass confusion otherwise.

ps. Penton-Man your memory continues to astound me!

[Oniiz86]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Just tried the 4K60 glass blowing clip again, first time it crashed the OPPO and second time it did exactly what it did before: played back in HDR10, it ignores the DV component completely.

That's unfortunate, have you tried your Panasonic UB820? I wonder if the Panasonics & Sony's X700/X800M2 have greater DV profile support?