3D/2D Displays that support 3D & 2D & 24p at multiplies of the original frame rate

[gand41f]

Originally Posted by Slapper

What happened to the OP on this thread? Says he is banned. I found this page to be very informative and I've never seen him say anything negative toward Blu or any of the members here. Hunh.

There's another member here:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...6&postcount=50

He claims his Sharp Aquos is capable of 1080p/24. I told him that it was not even though it may have a 1080p/24 input. Thought I would come over here and ask HDTV1080P to make sure, but I see that he got the smack down.

If anyone knows for 100% sure, follow the link and help him out. I'm 95% sure it does not support 1080p/24, but I have been known to be wrong before. Wouldn't want to stear anyone in the wrong direction.
Thanks.

I'm pretty sure the new Sharps (82 and 92 series) cannot take 1080/24p input although they are 120Hz panels. There is a (very) slim chance that they can actually do 5:5 output at 120Hz by taking a 1080/60i or 1080/60p input but that's very, very unlikely.

If nobody else responds, I'll do a little more digging and respond to the poor fellow.

enjoy
gandalf

[CONQUERERMTM]

So HDTV1080P was banned from this forum?

Who'll update the thread from now on???

This is bad...

[EMachine14]

Can anyone explain (or link to) the telecine procedures for material captured using 1) High Def Video equipment and 2) Traditional Film equipment?

Is there an inherient advantage to capturing high def content using either format for Blu-Ray Discs? (ie: 1080p/24 /60)

[gand41f]

Originally Posted by EMachine14

Can anyone explain (or link to) the telecine procedures for material captured using 1) High Def Video equipment and 2) Traditional Film equipment?

Is there an inherient advantage to capturing high def content using either format for Blu-Ray Discs? (ie: 1080p/24 /60)

I have no idea, but I don't think this is the right thread or board for this question. You should probably ask in the general questions board, there are probably more people who can answer this question there.

enjoy
gandalf

[Mr. Joshua]

Are the following Samsung models 24fps 5/5 output compatible the same as the Sony XBR4 and XBR5 models?:

LN-T4071F
LN-T4671F
LN-T5271F
LN-T4081F
LN-T4681F
LN-T5281F
LN-T5781F

[Brandon B]

On the JVC HD100, on/off contrast is spec'ed at 30,000:1, not 40, and third party measurements bear that out.

BB

[UTVOL06]

Originally Posted by wsciv123

Are the following Samsung models 24p 5/5 output compatible the same as the Sony XBR4 and XBR5 models?:

LN-T4071F
LN-T4671F
LN-T5271F
LN-T4081F
LN-T4681F
LN-T5281F
LN-T5781F

I'd like to know as well if any Samsung LCDs @ 120Hz can do a tru 5/5 pulldown like the Sony XBrs. I may end up selling my new 40" Samsung @60Hz to my father and buying a 46" Samsung at 120Hz if some of them do the 5/5 pulldown. I am extremly happy with the PQ of my Samsung with Blu-ray movies except for some Judder here and there sometimes due to its 3:2 pulldown.

[DaViD Boulet]

hey guys,

"Judder" does indeed rever to stuttering-motion artifacts in native 24 fps material as well as 3-2 cadence stutter.

The "judder" in 24 fps film is one reason why film feels like "film" and not TV. Many TV shows are shot intentionally in 24p to recreate this 24 fps judder sensation to feel more "cinematic" to viewers who view the smooth motion of live 60Hz capture as "cheap TV".

Back on track. The point is that the 3-2 cadence pattern creates an *uneven* judder that's even more bothersome during motion and pans than the native 24 fps judder. So that's what we're getting rid of when we get rid of 3-2 pulldown... the *uneven* judder.

But judder does indeed remain with any 24 fps signal even if it's double-scanned to 48 or tripple scanned to 72 (etc.).

The 120 Hz TVs that are bragging about smooth-motion get rid of 24 fps judder by *interpolating* new frames to smooth-out the motion.

Notice that at no time have I mentioned "flicker" because that's not the issue here... even with 24 fps material which is double-projected at 48 fps. Even if we were watching a digital projection in a theater with no shutter at all... with a "constant on" technology like DLP or LCOS... we'd still see the 24 fps motion judder during pans and motion.

[dperrone]

Question, in one room I have a new Samsung HLT-5089S (do not think it will display 1080P/24, it was not on this list of sets on this thread) and in another room I have a Pioneer Plasma 5010-FD (this will do 1080P/24). Both rooms I have Panasonic BD30's. I played Ratatoulie this morning on the samsung and set the BD30 to 1080P/24, the tv flashed the signal of 1080P/24. The movie played great with no problems. My question is, was this actually displaying the movie in 1080P/24 or 1080P/60 ? I didn't think this set was capable of displaying that?
Second question is, on the Pioneer, do I leave the Panny set to 1080P/24 all the time? Or do I switch it off when I am watching standard dvd's? and back on to 1080P/24 when watching Blu-Rays?
And I guess this question is also for the Samsung, should I also switch the Panny back on that tv as well?
Thanks in advance,

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by dperrone

Question, in one room I have a new Samsung HLT-5089S (do not think it will display 1080P/24, it was not on this list of sets on this thread) and in another room I have a Pioneer Plasma 5010-FD (this will do 1080P/24). Both rooms I have Panasonic BD30's. I played Ratatoulie this morning on the samsung and set the BD30 to 1080P/24, the tv flashed the signal of 1080P/24. The movie played great with no problems. My question is, was this actually displaying the movie in 1080P/24 or 1080P/60 ? I didn't think this set was capable of displaying that?
Second question is, on the Pioneer, do I leave the Panny set to 1080P/24 all the time? Or do I switch it off when I am watching standard dvd's? and back on to 1080P/24 when watching Blu-Rays?
And I guess this question is also for the Samsung, should I also switch the Panny back on that tv as well?
Thanks in advance,

Sorry for the delay in answering your questions my account was locked. The Samsung 50 inch DLP you own is a 120HZ display and everything will be displayed at 120HZ. For the Pioneer that has 1080P/24 inputs with a 72HZ refresh rate the BLU-RAY player should always be set to 1080P/24. When playing concert videos in BLU-RAY or standard DVD’s the BLU-RAY player will automatically output 60HZ and when playing 99% of movies in BLU-RAY the Panasonic will output 1080P/24. When in 1080P/24 mode all BLU-RAY players will switch to 30HZ or 60HZ if the disc was not mastered at 24fps.
Now when connecting your BLU-RAY player to your Samsung you might get a better picture quality if you place the player on 60HZ and let the player do the 3:2 conversion since it is my understanding the Samsung uses a 3:2 pulldown process with 1080P/24 material and converts to 60HZ before going to 120HZ. You will need to play with the setting to see which gives you a better picture. If the Samsung DLP does a better job of converting 1080P/24 to 60HZ then leave the Panasonic BD30 set for 1080P/24. The Pioneer display is the main display that you will see the benefits of 1080P/24.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by Slapper

What happened to the OP on this thread? Says he is banned. I found this page to be very informative and I've never seen him say anything negative toward Blu or any of the members here. Hunh.

Yes I was banned from this forum. Before I was banned I did not receive any private email message warnings that I was going to be banned. I logged in and the message said something like you are banned for posting HD-DVD fud.
I am not sure exactly what message banned me. When pro HD-DVD people have come to this forum I would debated them once and a while in a professional manor showing them why BLU-RAY is better. Perhaps even mentioning the HD-DVD format even if it is in a negative way is not acceptable. I thought it was ok once and a while to post HD-DVD information and theories in the off topic section of the forum. I mentioned a theory in the off topic section what the HD-DVD camp could do if they were desperate which might have caused me to be banned. I am very pro BLU-RAY and where I live I do not have any HD-DVD discs currently only BLU-RAY discs. BLU-RAY is the better format and I hope it defeats the HD-DVD format. I am a movie collector and I have thought about purchasing a combo dual format player. My hope is one day Universal Studios and Paramount Pictures starts releasing in BLU-RAY in 2008. I would rather upgrade all my DVD players to BLU-RAY players instead of dual format players but one day since I am a movie collector I might go dual format if the BLU-RAY camp does not have 100% studio support in 2008. There is only so long most people will boycott the other side if they are a movie collector.
I will try not to get banned in the future but there is no guarantees. I plan on speaking the truth. The truth is BLU-RAY is a better format then HD-DVD.

[HDTV1080P]

While my account was locked I have kept the list updated on other forums. I will now copy some of those links over to this forum to keep the list up to date

Here are three other locations the list can be found at

http://forum.hd-dvd.com/showthread.php?t=1370

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showthread.php?t=25688

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=942145

[HDTV1080P]

This new review proves that Mitsubishi is using a 3:2 pulldown technique when converting 1080P/24 material to 60HZ. Then it converts 60HZ to 120HZ. The Mitsubishi remains off the list since it does not bypass the 3:2 pulldown process for 24fps sources.

Quote
“ The set will also accept and display a 1080p/24 source, such ad Blu-ray or HD DVD. However, rather than the optimum technique of upconverting 1080p/24 to 1080p/120 directly, to match the native 120Hz frame rate of the set, 1080p/24 inputs are first converted to 1080p/60 by adding 3/2 pulldown. The set then handles the signal as it would any 1080p/60 input by frame-doubling it to1080p/120.”
http://ultimateavmag.com/flatpaneldisplays/1107mits46144/

[HDTV1080P]

Optoma HD8000 1080P Single Chip DLP Front Projector added to the list

The Optoma HD8000 1080P DLP front projector will refresh 1080P/24 material at 48HZ.

Quote
“The manual mentions a 48Hz control to display 1080p/24fps inputs at a 48Hz refresh rate, but that control has been omitted. Instead, the projector automatically recognizes when it receives a 24Hz input and frame doubles it to 48Hz with no user action required.”
http://ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/1107opt8000/index.html

[HDTV1080P]

List Updated with correct refresh rates for the Sony VPL-VW60 (96HZ) and VPL-VW200 (120HZ)

I subscribe to just about every Video and Audio magazine that I am aware of like Widescreen Review, Home Theater, Perfect Vision, and various other print and electronic magazines. Once and a while people that publish these magazines make mistakes. Anymore it’s getting so bad that one needs to have more then one source of information to see which review or news article contains the correct information.

For example here is a link to why the Sony front projectors were labeled at 48HZ
http://forum.hd-dvd.com/showpost.php?p=6722&postcount=46

The list now has been corrected and the Sony VPL-VW60 is labeled as 96HZ and the VPL-VW200 is 120HZ. The 120HZ for the VPL-VW200 comes from Sony’s original press release.

Quote
“Like the VPL-VW50, the VW60 changes its refresh rate to 96Hz and employs a "4:4 pulldown" (each frame is repeated four times) when you give it a 1080p/24 signal. I love this feature. This removes the odd judder inherent in all 24-frame-per-second content when displayed at 60Hz (thanks to 3:2 pulldown). The result is a smoother image, but without the overly smooth, artificial look that can occur when a display interpolates frames (which some 120Hz displays are now doing).”

http://hometheatermag.com/frontprojectors/1107sonyvw60/

[Mr. Joshua]

I just picked up a Samsung LN-T4671F. WOW is the picture amazing. The finest tv that I have ever owned. I really wanted the 52" version, but too big for my small space. The picture is breathtaking. So far I have watched The Replacement Killers, Pirates of the Carribean: At World's End, Superman Returns and Hellboy... Wow, all movies look awesome... I can see every detail. I have a PS3 60GB. I'm thinking of getting a Samsung 1400 model blu-ray to hook up. I really like the PS3 but I don't play any games, and I'm about to give up on being able to download movies and tv shows on the PS3, I was hoping the Playstation store would pick up quickly on this....

[gand41f]

Glad to see you're back, HDTV1080P. Now I can stop pretending to be an expert on this topic and go back to my XBR4/5 thread only answering things I do know.

enjoy
gandalf

[UTVOL06]

Originally Posted by gand41f

Glad to see you're back, HDTV1080P. Now I can stop pretending to be an expert on this topic and go back to my XBR4/5 thread only answering things I do know.

enjoy
gandalf

I agree. I'm really glad to have you back here HDTV1080P!

[HDTV1080P]

Update on the Sony VPL-VW200 refresh rate when a 1080P/24 signal is applied (192HZ refresh rate)

According to the excellent review of the Sony VPL-VW200 at UltimateAVmag.com the Sony VPL-VW200 panel does a 4:4 pulldown for 1080P/24 material and then is refreshed at 192HZ on the screen. So when both the “motion enhancer option” is turned off and the “film projection option” is turned off the VPL-VW200 panel will perform frame multiplication at 96HZ when a 1080P/24 signal is applied. 60HZ material will be converted to 120HZ by the panel. Then once the panel is finished converting the frame rate the actual image is refreshed on the screen at 192HZ for 1080P/24 material and 240HZ for 60HZ material. When motion enhancer is turned on the projector has a smoothing effect that makes film look like 60HZ video using interpolation of new frames. The Black frame insertion is a unique feature of this projector which is part of the “Film projection option” that can be turned off and on. Film projection option uses dark or black frame insertion (see review link for more details about black frame insertion)
This Sony VPL-VW200 is an excellent quality projector for $15,000. The Xenon bulb this projector uses has a beautiful color spectrum. With the bulb estimating half life at 2500 hours this $999 bulb is expensive to replace. Hopefully one day someone will figure out how to make a Xenon bulb that costs $300-$500 and lasts at least 3000 hours. Replacing bulbs every year or two for $999 can get expensive.

Information source

Following quotes come from this review link http://ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/1207sonyvw200/index.html

Quote
“The VPL-VW200 can operate at frame rates of up to 120Hz. When it receives a source 1080p/24 frames per second (Hz) or 1080p/60 fps (Hz), it upconverts it to either 96Hz or 120Hz.”

“If you turn off both the Film Projection and Motion Enhancer features, the extra frames needed to upconvert the source frame rate to 96Hz or 120Hz are produced simply by repeating frames. For more detail on the Motionflow feature, see "Poetry in Motion?" at the end of this review.”
“Sony also states that an SXRD display actually refresh at twice the frame rate. That means that when the panel receives a source that has been converted to 120Hz, the image is refreshed 240Hz. For 96Hz, it's 192Hz.”
See the following Poetry in Motion link for above quote in blue
http://ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/1207sonyvw200/index3.html

[HDTV1080P]

The Marantz VP-11S1BL and VP-15S1 DLP 1080P Front projectors have been added to the list

The older VP-11S1BL with a new firmware update will accept a 1080P/24 signal input and flash it on the screen at 48fps (HZ).

quote
“According to Marantz's Dan Miller there is already a firmware update in the works that will allow the VP-11S1 to show 1080/24p sources at 48fps, which as a multiple of film's 24fps eliminate the temporal distortions that occur in converting to 60fps.”
http://www.guidetohometheater.com/videoprojectors/506marantzvp11s1/index1.html

The new Marantz VP-15S1 according to the review starting on page 74 of the January 2008 Perfect Vision magazine also refreshes 1080P/24 material at 48HZ.

Quote from page 75 of January 2008 Perfect Vision magazine
“The Marantz is able to avoid applying 3:2 pulldown because it can run at more than one speed. When fed a 1080P/24 signal, it doubles the frame rate and displays the image at 48fps. Each frame is flashed twice (which is also what film projectors do). “