For those that want to own the very best Plasma display available, Pioneer has released a 50 and 60 Inch Elite Signature Series that properly displays 1080P/24 at 72HZ. The electronic parts in this display are hand inspected by a human and certified to meet the optimum quality.
Alert these two Pioneer flat panels are monitors only with no speakers: These Pioneer Plasma signature series displays are exactly like a Front Projector in the since that they contain no speakers or tuners. These Pioneers are ideal for dedicated home theater rooms. You will need to rent or purchase an external tuner like a Digital cable box, Digital Satellite receiver, or ATSC over the air tuner in order to watch any TV programs on the display. Also since the display is a monitor only it contains no speakers and requires either a surround sound system or stereo system. This display is ideal for someone that does not have the type of room to place a ceiling mounted front projector in but wants the best possible flat panel available. In theory when a professional review is released for these Signature Series Monitors they should have a little bit better picture quality compared to the existing Kuro Elite HDTV's. Comments: The Pioneer Signature Series Elite 60 inch PRO-141FD cost $7,000 and the 50 inch cost $5,500. That is $500 more compared to the existing Elite KURO's. At a price of $7,000 I was disappointed to learn that the monitor has no S-Video jack for legacy video equipment like S-VHS or other 480I equipment that uses S-Video. This is ridiculous cost cutting feature to remove for older Videophiles that have legacy equipment. It is almost impossible to find a 1080P display without one legacy 480I S-Video jack accept for the $5,500 and $7,000 Pioneer Signature series. The Pioneer only has one component input where as other brands of 1080P displays have up to 3. For $7,000 Pioneer should have at least 2 Component inputs and at least 1 S-Video jack. 8 HDMI inputs would be ideal. Pioneer offers 4 HDMI with one legacy DVI connection.
Some important features on the Signature Series 1. Worldwide signal support: NTSC, PAL & SECAM 2. Hand inspected parts to verify the quality meets Pioneers high standards 3. Only 2.5 inches thick 4. Mirror mode: Useful for a bathroom or bedroom when watching in a mirror (This would be for causal watching, I could not see the average person watching a entire BLU-RAY movie in the mirror).
Quote from page 22 in the November 2008 Widescreen Review magazine (issue 136)
"More exciting news on the Pioneer front - the company is now shipping its Elite KURO Signature Series Monitors. Every Monitor is packaged with elegantly boxed certificate of authenticity unique to each panel, and White Balance Certification allows Signature Series owners to see the white balance their monitors had when leaving the factory, using the unique serial number on each set. The 50- inch PRO-101FD ($5,500) and 60 - inch PRO-141FD ($7,000) features a slim profile of only 2.5 inches, and in optional wall mount is available that maintains the monitor's minimal design. The monitors do not have internal digital tuners. They include an interesting Mirror Mode, flipping the image horizontally so viewers can watch the picture in its correct orientation through a mirror (who wants to miss any of the action while brushing their teeth?)."
"Produces the deepest black levels of any large-screen display we've tested; extremely accurate color points and color temperature; superb antireflective screen; 72Hz refresh mode works well with 1080p/24 sources; Pure picture mode delivers superior settings out of the box; extensive picture controls; excellent connectivity, including 4 HDMI and one PC input; styling that's all business."
"Simply put, the Pioneer Elite PRO-111FD produced the best picture of any flat-panel HDTV we've tested to date. It delivered the deepest blacks we've seen from any large-screen display, as well as the most-accurate color. Video processing was superb, its glare-reducing screen is the best we've seen on any plasma TV, and we could find almost nothing to complain about in other areas. Given its superb performance, the PRO-111FD scores the first "10" we've ever awarded in overall picture quality. To us, that score doesn't represent perfection--hey, nothing's perfect--but instead a picture that's solidly superior to anything else we've seen in the flat-panel HDTV category."
The following quotes taken from the following weblink review
"The Pioneer Kuro displays are truly something to behold as well. The black levels on this year's model (PRO-111FD) really were blacker than last year's. (They had them side by side.) The black levels were approaching the CRT's we all had from years past. The colors were rich and vivid as well. If you want to buy someone a Pioneer display or AVR as a gift, you can feel safe in the knowledge that all of their products are quality. Unlike Sony, Samsung, Philips or a host of others. Not that those manufactories don't make good products."
The Best quality 1080P Flat Panel displays and BLU-RAY player to own regardless of cost as of November 10th 2008 according to several reviews
According to several reviews, the best quality 1080P flat panel available is the Pioneer PRO-151FD 60 inch and Pioneer PRO-111FD 50 inch (Both the same just different screen sizes). Nothing beats the Pioneer Plasma picture quality accept a high-end ceiling mounted front projector which requires a dedicated dark home theater room. When it comes to the best BLU-RAY player at any price according to several reviews the best BLU-RAY player is the Panasonic DMP-BD55 in terms of picture quality with full support for all the advanced audio decoding with BD-LIVE.
The Best quality 1080P Flat Panel displays and BLU-RAY player most likely are the following models that have not been reviewed yet.
It sometimes takes several months for a product to be reviewed after it is released. Most likely the best quality Pioneer Elite displays are really the new PRO-141FD 60 inch and PRO-101FD 50 inch. These new Signature series monitors most likely when reviewed will have a little bit deeper blacks and over all better picture quality compared to the already excellent PRO-151FD and PRO-111FD.
Also most likely the $2,200 Pioneer Elite BDP-09FD will be much better quality then the Panasonic DMP-BD55 once reviewed. This Pioneer Elite BDP-09FD has 4GB of internal memory for BD-LIVE, will do 16 bit color, has gold plated jacks with two HDMI outputs.
More detailed info can be read about the Pioneer Elite BDP-09FD at the following link.
This Ultimate AV Mag review mentions that the Panasonic TH-50PZ800 flickers when the contrast is set high when watching a 1080P/24 signal at 48HZ. Hopefully next year's new Panasonic models will correct this issue since the Panasonic 800 and 850 series is the only flat panel on the market that several reviewers have reported seeing either a "unwatchable flicker" or "ignoring flicker" with 1080P/24 signals. Pioneer and Hitachi Plasmas do not have this flicker issue.
Quotes from review
"Another rare and welcome feature is the 50PZ800's ability to display 1080p/24 signals at 48Hz, simply doubling each frame. This avoids 3:2 pulldown altogether, resulting in smoother onscreen motion. As far as I know, the only other plasmas that do anything like this are the Pioneer Kuros, which can display 1080p/24 at 72Hz, repeating each frame three times."
"Ton Norton complained that displaying 1080p/24 at 48Hz caused the image to flicker on test patterns, which I verified, though it was less pronounced at the lower contrast setting I used in my review. Also, I saw none of it on real-world material—in fact, motion in Hidalgo on Blu-ray looked smoother at 48Hz than at 60, which was perhaps most apparent in the scrolling credits at the end.
Tom also noted that the peak white level dropped when the TV was set to 48Hz, which was true—I measured a drop of about 20 percent on test patterns compared with the 60Hz setting. But I didn't find this to be a problem with real-world material."
The Toshiba 47HL167 has been discontinued and sometimes can be found for under $1,000 from mail order companies. The Toshiba 47HL167 is a 60HZ 1080p display and does not qualify to be on the list.
I just bought a Panasonic 50" plasma PZ85U, which does not handle
1080/24p input but on the other hand PZ800U does but lot of people are not happy with its 24p mode.
Can you guys suggest a 50" or 52" flat panel display that could handle 24p properly?
I just bought a Panasonic 50" plasma PZ85U, which does not handle
1080/24p input but on the other hand PZ800U does but lot of people are not happy with its 24p mode.
Can you guys suggest a 50" or 52" flat panel display that could handle 24p properly?
Thanks in advance
Every Pioneer 1080P Plasma flat panel every made will display 1080P/24 properly at 72HZ and I highly recommend them for someone that wants the best in terms of picture quality and also over all quality. My local Best Buy had the 50 inch $5,000 PRO-111FD on sale for only $3,499. Also the 50 inch $4,000 PDP-5020FD was on sale for $2,999. Mail order on the PDP-5020FD runs around $2400. Amazon has the PDP-5020FD for $2,491.08 with free shipping. Click on links to read reviews or spec sheets.
According to test results the best Samsung display in terms of picture quality is the 950 series. The only better LCD screen on the market in terms of picture quality goes to the Sony XBR8 series. The Pioneer Kuro Plasma is better in picture quality compared to both the Sony XBR8 and Samsung 950 series.
The Samsung LN55A950 will properly display 1080P/24 at 120HZ (true 5:5 pulldown) when auto motion plus is tuned off.
" Let's start with Auto Motion Plus. Like most current upscale LCD TVs, the LN55A950 refreshes the screen at a fixed rate of 120Hz, twice the rate of conventional TVs. When AMP is engaged, the set creates intermediate frames to boost the frame rate of the source (24, 30, or 60fps) to 120Hz, a process known as "frame interpolation." The interpolated frames help the eye see smooth motion instead of a blur. (WhenAMP is turned off, the set simply repeats each frame enough times to boost the frame rate to 120Hz, which equates to five times for 24fps sources and twice for 60fps sources.) "
" The film resolution-loss test also looked perfect when Auto Motion Plus (AMP) frame-interpolation was turned off—turning it on caused some smudging artifacts to appear in the high-frequency vertical bursts, though it also improved detail in the pan across the bleachers."
"My initial attempts to set the Samsung's black level were frustrated by the set's LED SmartLighting function, which insisted on dragging dimly lit areas on an otherwise blank screen down to total blackness. In the case of the PLUGE test pattern, the stripes would appear for a second or two, then fade away, leaving nothing but a blank, pitch-black screen. I ended up setting the level by eye, using regular program material, but I was never entirely comfortable with the results.
A few days later, Samsung informed me that my early production sample had been shipped with an incorrect setting in the service menu, which was causing LED SmartLighting to behave too aggressively on scenes with low average picture level (APL). (Samsung has assured us that all sets manufactured after late September ship with updated hardware and the correct setting, so you should not run into the same problem.)"
"The light-pumping effect was quite obvious when I first tried to set up my early production sample, which, as I mentioned earlier, had an incorrect setting in its service menu that caused the local dimming to behave too aggressively with dark scenes. Correcting the parameter vastly improved things, but it did not totally eliminate the problem. And even with the correct setting in place (all sets shipped by the time you read this will have the correct setting), the pumping effect became extremely pronounced if the TV's brightness control was adjusted to any setting other than 63—one click higher or lower was all it took."
"Given the right (or should I say wrong?) material, the Samsung demonstrated both problems. Some obvious examples can be seen in Stargate: Continuum on Blu-ray. The opening title sequence, for example, consists of white text that fades in and out against what should be a stable star-field background. As the text comes and goes, the stars in the background dim and brighten in response."
Comparisons and Conclusion
"At $5000 list, the LN55A950 is priced the same as the awesome Pioneer Elite PRO-111FD Kuro plasma. The Pioneer has a slightly smaller screen (50 versus 55 inches on the Samsung), but that's pretty much equivalent as far as I'm concerned.
Unfortunately for the Samsung, the video performance of these two competitors is not equivalent. The Pioneer's blacks are very nearly as good as the Samsung's, and they do not suffer from any haloing or light pumping at all. In addition, the Pioneer has a much wider viewing angle. When you look the opening title sequence of Stargate: Continuum on both sets, there's really no comparison. The Kuro shows more stars in the background, they stay at the same brightness at all times, and you can even see that some of the stars are slightly different colors. In chapter 3 of the same movie, the ship is brighter and more well-defined on the Pioneer, and you can make out textures such as the ship's rusty, stained metal walls and the nubby, red-flecked cloth of the captain's sweater. The Samsung looks good on this difficult, dark material, but the Pioneer looks great.
On the other hand, the Pioneer is slightly noisier than the Samsung, and as a plasma, it is subject to image retention. Still, unless you plan to regularly use the set to display video games or mostly 4:3 material, this isn't a major consideration.
After living with the Samsung for some weeks now, it has became readily apparent to me that, a few years down the road, all high-end LCD TVs will have LED backlighting. And, as with all things digital, the technology will get better and cheaper with each generation. Problems such as haloing and light-pumping will be solved, or at least reduced to the point where they aren't significant. For now, the LN55A950 is easily one of the best-looking LCD TVs—if not the best-looking—on the market. But it's no Kuro killer, and at its current price point, that road looks a bit rocky.
Highs
Incredible blacks/contrast ratio
Virtually no motion blur and no artifacts with frame interpolation on
Beautifully vibrant and natural color
Razor-sharp detail
Lows
Haloing and light-pumping
Poor off-axis performance
Mirror-like screen surface
Annoying user interface"
The Sony KDL-52WL140 1080P LCD flat panel has been added to the list
There is no review yet on the KDL-52WL140 but according to the Sony spec sheet the display uses the 120HZ Motionflow technology. Several professional reviews have already proven that when Motion Enhancer is turned off the Sony 120Hz displays will properly display 1080P/24 at 120HZ using the 5:5 pulldown method.
The 240HZ KDL-52XBR7 might be added to the list after more information is learned about how 1080P/24 is handled
As I mentioned a while ago in a earlier post I am not going to add the KDL-52XBR7 to the list until a official Sony spec sheet or a professional review proves that the display offers 10:10 pulldown for 1080p/24 material. In the future 240HZ LCD's will greatly improve the LCD motion blur problems and the image should look as good or better then some Plasmas especially when RGB LED backlighting is added with 240HZ refresh rates. The KDL-52XBR7 does not have the improved color accuracy that the XBR8 LED displays have. Perhaps maybe one day Sony will release a 240HZ display with LED backlighting to challenge the Pioneer Kuro. Maybe it will be called a Sony XBR9.
The Sony KDL-55XBR8 LCD flat panel is the best LCD flat panel on the market currently in terms of picture quality. Two professional reviews have proven the quality of the Sony XBR8 LCD is the best of the best with only a Pioneer Plasma offering a better overall picture quality.
The 3 best flat panels of 2008 in terms of picture quality
1. Pioneer Elite 60 and 50 inch Plasma models 2. Sony KDL-55XBR8 LCD (second best flat panel) 3. Samsung LN55A950 LCD (third best flat panel)
The Sony KDL-55XBR8 will properly display 1080P/24 material at 120HZ using true 5:5 pulldown method when the motion enhancer feature called Motion flow is turned off.
I like the USB digital media extender on this Sony XBR8 TV and other Sony TV's that allows one to add extra inputs like 4 HDMI jacks for when one runs out of inputs. Also a Bravia Internet link module for streaming HD video is a feature that some may like to watch for movie trailers. Of course movie trailers can also be done with BD-LIVE on BLU-RAY players.
The following quotes are taken from Scott Wilikinson's review link over at Ultimate AVmag.com
"As with virtually all high-end LCD TVs these days, the 55XBR8 doubles the rate at which complete frames are flashed on the screen, from 60 to 120 per second. This is supposed to reduce motion blur, a problem endemic to LCD TVs. If it receives a 60Hz signal (such as 480i/p, 1080i, or 1080p/60), it inserts an extra frame between the actual frames in the signal; if it receives a 24Hz signal (that is, 1080p/24), it inserts four new frames between the actual frames to reach 120Hz.
A feature called Motionflow interpolates between actual frames to create these extra frames, calculating where objects in motion should be in each new frame. This is intended to smooth out onscreen motion. If Motionflow is turned off, the set simply repeats each frame two or five times, depending on the rate of the source signal."
" Another interesting feature common to many Sony TVs is the DMex (Digital Media Extender) USB expansion port on the back panel, which lets you connect proprietary DMex modules that add new functionality to the set. Four modules are currently available: Bravia Input Link ($150) adds four HDMI inputs, Bravia DVD Link ($200) provides a DVD player, Bravia Wireless Link ($800) offers a wireless HDMI connection, and Bravia Internet Video Link ($300) connects to your home-network router and streams online content directly to the TV from partner providers such as YouTube, Amazon On Demand, CBS, AOL, Yahoo, and Sports Illustrated among others."
" Also available is TV Guide On Screen, an electronic program guide for broadcast TV channels. This is a nice touch, though probably superfluous for most users who have cable or satellite service with their own EPGs."
" Regarding color, I should point out that the 55XBR8 was one of four TVs in a recent face-off conducted by our sibling publication, Home Theater. The other three were the Samsung LN55A950 LCD, Pioneer Elite PRO-111FD plasma, and Panasonic TH-50PZ800 plasma. The face-off will appear in HT's February 2009 issue.
With all four TVs side by side displaying the same material from a Blu-ray player through an HDMI splitter, the Sony's color appeared to have a slight greenish cast compared with the others, even though it measured nearly perfectly in terms of grayscale and color gamut. The reason for this is unclear. However, viewed in isolation without the other TVs right next to it, this greenish cast was not particularly apparent. Skin tones looked a bit paler than other sets I've looked at recently, but this wasn't troubling at all, except when placed next to other sets with rosier skin tones. The black of space that opens Stargate: Continuum on Blu-ray was truly awesome—deliciously deep and inky, though there weren't quite as many stars visible as on a plasma. Even better, there was virtually no haloing around the bright title as it faded in and out. Shadow detail in the sequence aboard the Achilles in chapter 3 was very good, and the overall detail in the Tokra city and spaceship exteriors was razor-sharp. Colors were rich and natural, with beautiful green trees and blue skies. As mentioned before, skin tones were a bit paler than I'm used to seeing, but it didn't bother me in the least."
"Comparisons & Conclusion
The LCD TV most comparable with the 55XBR8 is the Samsung LN55A950, another 55-inch LCD TV with LED backlighting and local dimming. In his review of that set, Lawrence Ullman noted some obvious haloing and black-level pumping, which were nowhere to be seen on the Sony. Also, the Sony's off-axis performance is better than the Samsung's, and the Sony has a matte screen as opposed to the Samsung's mirrorlike surface. Otherwise, both offer excellent—though slightly different—color, and the detail in their pictures is second to none.
However, the Sony lists for $7000—that's right, seven grand. Even though this is less than half the list of the Qualia 005 back in 2004—and for a larger screen to boot—it's still a major chunk of change. By contrast, the Samsung is $5000, the same price as the 46-inch version of the Sony XBR8 as well as the 50-inch Pioneer Elite PRO-111FD plasma. Which would I choose if money was no object? I'd have to go with the Pioneer as the best picture of them all. But if I needed an LCD for its greater brightness and money was really no object, I'd pick the Sony over the Samsung.
The KDL-55XBR8 is a triumph of technology over the limitations of LCD. Its blacks are super-inky, its shadow detail is surprisingly good, its colors are rich and natural, its detail is stunning, and its off-axis performance is better than most LCD TVs. Add to that USB and Ethernet access to digital content and DMex expandability, and you've got just about everything you'd want in a high-end TV. The only sticking points are its cumbersome menu system and sky-high price tag, which will keep all but the most well-heeled videophiles away. Still, if you've got the scratch, this is among the finest TVs available today.
High
None-better blacks, great shadow detail
Razor-sharp detail
Beautiful colors
Better-than-most off-axis performance
Great 120Hz frame interpolation
USB and Ethernet access to digital content
DMex expandability
The following thought is not about WWIII; just an observation.
I have built my HT around the Mitsubshi 73" Diamond 1080P DLP;
the Diamond series has a refresh rate at 120Hz; no judder.
The price range for the Mits allow for any budget IF you shop around.
For me here, since Tweeter folded, I was able to pick up a 65" Diamond
for half cost.
And for me, the picture is outstanding.
Good hunting to you for a monitor; in the long run, it is worth it when viewing HD and BD.
None of the old or current in production Mitsubishi and Samsung rear projectors will be added to the list, according to all the reviews I have read the Mitsubishi and Samsung DLP 120HZ rear projectors add a 3:2 pulldown process when a 1080P/24 signal is applied. They convert the 1080P/24 signal to 60HZ before going to 120HZ. There is no benefit to 1080P/24 when 3:2 pulldown is used. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=1283280&postcount=549
I am glad you are enjoying your rear projector. Standard 1080P displays that use 3:2 pulldown still have a very good picture quality. Since the invention of TV consumers have been watching 3:2 pulldown and have gotten use to it. I see Amazon has the 73 inch 1080P Mitsubishi for under $2,000. That is a real bargain for that screen size. The Sony XBR7 70 inch LCD flat panel costs $20,000.
I just purchaced the 32lg70, over the 32lg60 because I was interested in the 120 hz.
Is there any way I can check if my LCD refreshes properly?
As the lg site says the 32in models are NOT 120 hz, but the spec sheet for the 32lg70 has a 5:5 pull down converter...
The reason the LG 32LG60 and LG 32LG70 appear on the list of true 1080P/24 displays is because according to the official LG spec sheet these displays refresh using 5:5 pulldown when True Motion is off and Real Cinema is on. Since the spec sheet says 5:5 pulldown these 32 inch displays have to be 120HZ. 5:5 pulldown only works with 120Hz refresh rates.
Do you see in the menu the option to turn off True Motion and turn on Real Cinema?
Here is the spec sheet that mentions 5:5 pulldown which always means 120HZ refresh
If for some reason the LG spec sheet is incorrect for the 32 inch models and the displays were only 60HZ, then they would need to be removed from the list. As long as you have the above menu options your dispaly is suppose to be 120HZ.
Thx HDTV1080P, that is why i was curious because i kno you can only do 5:5 with 120HZ. The 32lg70 spec sheet dose say it does 5:5, and I just called LG and the gentelman(who i dont think really knew what he was talking about because he said to jus take the number in HDMI, ex 60p and multiply by 2 to get the hz, which is not how tvs work) said the 32lg60 and 70 ARE infact 120hz.
Now the spec sheet for the 32lg60 does NOT show the values of its pull down methods.
That being said my tv is in the mail and as soon as i get it, that will be the first thing i test and i will post my results.
Thanks for the insight. I subscribe to S&V; not HT Review.
If I may, a question about your response:
the quote from page 72 states "While both of these sets accept 1080p/24 input..."
does the 3:2 pull down apply from a directly connected source (say BD)
OR
would 1080p/24 be present if connected indirectly (via an AVR)?
Thanks in advance.
1080P/24 is the native format on most BLU-RAY movie discs. A 1080P/24 signal from a BLU-RAY player or from a surround sound receiver that supports 1080P/24 will not have 3:2 pulldown as long as 1080P/24 is turned on in the menu. 3:2 pulldown is just used when converting a signal from 1080P/24 to 60HZ and sometimes 120HZ.
A BLU-RAY player will only use 3:2 pull down process when 1080P/24 mode in the menu is not turned on. The Mitsubishi DLP rear projectors add a 3:2 pulldown process to the original 1080P/24 signal before displaying the image on the screen.
To get the BLU-RAY player to add the 3:2 pulldown process one has to turn off 1080P/24 and select another mode like 1080P/60 mode. Either your BLU-RAY player or display will have a better 3:2 pulldown process. If the display has a better 3:2 pulldown process then you should set the BLU-RAY player to 1080P/24. If the BLU-RAY player has a better 3:2 pulldown picture then you should set the BLU-RAY player to 1080P/60. Sometimes both the TV and the BLU-RAY player are so close in quality for 60HZ conversion that you will not see a difference. The ideal setup is to completely bypass 3:2 pulldown in order to get an image that looks similar to film. 35mm and 70mm film is shot at 24fps and flashed on the screen at multiplies of 24 (usually 48HZ and 72HZ).
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