3D/2D Displays that support 3D & 2D & 24p at multiplies of the original frame rate

[HDTV1080P]

Samsung LN55A950 55-inch LCD HDTV Flat panel
(December 2008 review link)

This top of the line Samsung model is already on the list. Here is the latest review from Sound and Vision magazine.

Quotes

"Video processing was superb. The film pulldown mode worked very well, and the set could display full-resolution 1080p signals even with moving images —but only when the Auto Motion Plus circuit was turned off."

"LCDs have always been good at delivering the kind of bright and punchy image that keeps them flying off the shelves in brightly lit Costcos. But their picture contrast and shadow detail have never been quite as impressive as the finest plasmas. Unlike a plasma, where each pixel generates its own light and can be turned on and off individually, most LCDs use a fluorescent backlight that’s constantly on, with the LCD crystals opening and closing sequentially to block the light. This system is less than perfect because each pixel lets a tiny bit of the light bleed through even when fully shuttered, resulting in a decreased overall black level."

" While testing the LN55A950, I got the impression that Samsung wanted to prove once and for all that an LCD TV can effectively compete with plasma TVs. The 950 manages to overcome most of LCD technology’s traditional weaknesses, even if Samsung has yet to perfect off-axis performance. And while undeniably expensive, it demonstrates that any traditional notions of what LCD can and can’t deliver are now void."

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hdtvs/3043/samsung-ln55a950-55-inch-lcd-hdtv.html

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by pgkool

Thx HDTV1080P, that is why i was curious because i kno you can only do 5:5 with 120HZ. The 32lg70 spec sheet dose say it does 5:5, and I just called LG and the gentelman(who i dont think really knew what he was talking about because he said to jus take the number in HDMI, ex 60p and multiply by 2 to get the hz, which is not how tvs work) said the 32lg60 and 70 ARE infact 120hz.

Now the spec sheet for the 32lg60 does NOT show the values of its pull down methods.

That being said my tv is in the mail and as soon as i get it, that will be the first thing i test and i will post my results.

Thanks

I just double checked for like the 5th time that all the LG displays on the list are true 5:5 pulldown 120HZ displays including the 32LG60 and 32LG70 models. On page 81 of the official LG manual it mentions that all LG60 and LG70 series are true 5:5 pulldown 120HZ. Also in a proir professinal review post awhile ago it mentioned the true 1080P/24 feature for the LG60 series.

http://us.lge.com/download/product/file/1000004121/LG60_manual.pdf
Page 81
The LG displays are a real bargain I just wish they had better black levels and ANSI contrast ratios.

[BettiePage]

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/..._112208:header

Motionflow 240Hz but still 24p True Cinema capable (guessing with MF turned off)

$4200

Now need to wait on an official review to compare blacks and colors against other LCD or Plasma panels.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by BettiePage

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/..._112208:header

Motionflow 240Hz but still 24p True Cinema capable (guessing with MF turned off)

$4200

Now need to wait on an official review to compare blacks and colors against other LCD or Plasma panels.

Most likely sometime in the next few months this Sony will be added to the list. But since Sony does not mention 10:10 pulldown in the description I am waiting just to be sure.

[HDTV1080P]

Some Sony "24P True Cinema" labeled displays have only a 60HZ refresh rate. Many other companies do these marketing methods also

Sony is now offering Motionflow 60HZ technology and calling that "24P True Cinema". So on some of Sony's displays "24P True Cinema" only means it accepts 1080P/24 inputs with a 60HZ refresh rate. There is no advantage to 1080P/24 when converted to 60HZ. 60HZ only displays allow several consumer electronics companies to make cheaper displays and the average consumer will be attracted to buzz words like "24p True Cinema".

Here is a link to two 60HZ displays that are labeled as "24P True Cinema. This display and all other 60HZ only displays will not be added to the list

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921665406592

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=101551&storeId=10151&lang Id=-1&productId=8198552921665406616

P.S.

If a review were to mention 48HZ for 1080P/24 then of course I would add them to the list. But no where in the Sony description does it say 48HZ refresh rate. 1080P/60 and 1080P/24 look the same when both are converted to 60HZ.

[HDTV1080P]

Samsung LN55A950 LCD HDTV Flat Screen

In a prior posting I mentioned the review in the December 2008 Home Theater magazine on the Samsung LN55A950 display. Home Theater magazine has now made the article available on line.

"If Auto Motion Plus 120Hz is turned off, source frames are repeated as needed to reach the set's 120-hertz native operating frequency (for example, five repeated frames for each real frame for a 24-Hz source). "

http://hometheatermag.com/lcds/samsu...tv/index1.html

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Hopefully next year's new Panasonic models will correct this issue since the Panasonic 800 and 850 series is the only flat panel on the market that several reviewers have reported seeing either a "unwatchable flicker" or "ignoring flicker" with 1080P/24 signals. Pioneer and Hitachi Plasmas do not have this flicker issue.

Where are you seeing this reported on any model other than the TH-50PZ800U?

I can't find anywhere that states this about the TH-50PZ850U, TH-58PZ800U, TH-58PZ850U, TH-65PZ800U or TH-65PZ850U.

[JasonR]

Video processing: Panasonic built the same 48Hz refresh rate option we complained about on the 800U into the 850U, and our complaints still apply. When fed a 1080p/24 source, the set flickers quite noticeably, especially in the brightest areas. The flicker is not subtle -- to the point why we wonder why Panasonic even included this mode at all. Needless to say, despite the fact that refreshing the screen in an even multiple of 24 did seem to smooth the characteristic 2:3 pulldown "hitch," we preferred watching the set in standard 60Hz mode.

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...l?tag=txt;page

[Pelican170]

you guys think its better off to save and get the 850U or still go with the 800U? im looking at buying one or the other...

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by JasonR

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...l?tag=txt;page

Sorry, meant to include only the 58" and 65" models, where there appears to be no mention of flicker on any site.

I have still yet to see the flicker on a 50" set and I've watched 1080p24 on over 5 different models of the TH-50PZ800.

Originally Posted by Pelican170

you guys think its better off to save and get the 850U or still go with the 800U? im looking at buying one or the other...

The -850 is more expensive than the -800.
If you don't need internet connectivity, go with the -800.

[Pelican170]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

The -850 is more expensive than the -800.
If you don't need internet connectivity, go with the -800.

sorry, i meant the 85U. i dont need internet connectivity on the tv either... i believe the main difference is the 24/p but if it doesnt work well then i wont get it...

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Pelican170

sorry, i meant the 85U. i dont need internet connectivity on the tv either... i believe the main difference is the 24/p but if it doesnt work well then i wont get it...

I haven't seen it "not working" - personally I think the few people that notice this as being "unwatchable" only want to see grain-free HD sports - that's not what the -800U offers.

I notice flicker everytime I go to a non-DLP cinema - I've never found it to be unwatchable.

[Pelican170]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

I haven't seen it "not working" - personally I think the few people that notice this as being "unwatchable" only want to see grain-free HD sports - that's not what the -800U offers.

I notice flicker everytime I go to a non-DLP cinema - I've never found it to be unwatchable.

hmmnnnnn, interesting, ill probably go for the 800U. what do you mean exactly by "personally i think the few people that notice this as being "unwatchable" only want to see grain-free HD sports - that's not what the -800U offers."

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Pelican170

hmmnnnnn, interesting, ill probably go for the 800U. what do you mean exactly by "personally i think the few people that notice this as being "unwatchable" only want to see grain-free HD sports - that's not what the -800U offers."

I don't think they have experienced 48Hz before outside of the cinema. My comment was facetious.

[Pelican170]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

I don't think they have experienced 48Hz before outside of the cinema. My comment was facetious.

gotcha, thats what i thought. thanks for all your info...

[dobyblue]

In speaking with Panasonic just now, there are no listed issues with the TH-50PZ800U.

If you take a look around the various owners threads for that TV, that seems to be in accordance with most peoples experiences with it too.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=15063408

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Where are you seeing this reported on any model other than the TH-50PZ800U?

I can't find anywhere that states this about the TH-50PZ850U, TH-58PZ800U, TH-58PZ850U, TH-65PZ800U or TH-65PZ850U.

All the reviews have mentioned only the 50 inch 800U and 850U. If my research is correct the 800U and 850U series hardware and software is the same for all screen sizes with the only difference being the weight, W/H/D, and physical screen size.

[HDTV1080P]

The Panasonic 800U and 850U series looks great at 60HZ but every single professional review mentions either an "ignoring flicker issue" or an "unwatchable flicker" at 48HZ. The Hitachi 48HZ 1080P plasmas do not have this flicker issue. In fact every review I have read over the last two years for flat panels has never mentioned a unwatchable flicker issue accept when the 800U and 850U were released.
If people want to call the flicker Cinematic that is fine. I have left the Panasonic 800U and 850U on the list since everyone has their own opinion about the display. Most consumers that own the Panasonic display will not see a flicker since they keep the displays at the default 60HZ setting.

Here are all the reviews that mention a flicker issue with the 800U and 850U series

1. Quote on the CNET review of the Panasonic TH-50PZ800U
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=952557&postcount=448

2. Quote on the CNET review of the Panasonic TH-50PZ850U
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=1005174&postcount=469

3. Quote from HD Guru website on the TH-50PZ850U
“To eliminate judder, this Panasonic plasma can display 24 Hz native content at 48 Hz (2 frames followed by 2 film frames or also called 2:2). This mode completely eliminates judder, unfortunately it creates flickering of the image as well, making it unwatchable.”
]http://hdguru.com/panasonic-th-50pz850u-exclusive-hd-guru%e2%84%a2-first-review/249/

4. Quote from Sound and Vision (September review) Panasonic TH-50PZ800U

Although the TV's 24p input mode mostly worked well, smoothing out picture judder in movie scenes with camera pans when the 48-Hz option was selected, it also caused the screen to flicker a bit. The effect could mostly be seen in shots with bright backgrounds such as snow or sky. Once I noticed it, the flickering was tough to ignore, so I decided to use the set's 60-Hz display option for all of my viewing.”

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hdt...nce-page2.html

5. November 2008 UltimateAV Mag review mentions the flicker on the TH-50PZ800

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=1306470&postcount=560

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

All the reviews have mentioned only the 50 inch 800U and 850U. If my research is correct the 800U and 850U series hardware and software is the same for all screen sizes with the only difference being the weight, W/H/D, and physical screen size.

YOUR RESEARCH IS CLEARLY WRONG!!

I think it's actually fair to say you haven't done ANY research outside of the 50" model, isn't that correct? It would seem, and Chris Majoros has confirmed this, that there is no flicker on the 58" model with 1080p24 content.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

In fact every review I have read over the last two years for flat panels has never mentioned a flicker issue accept when the 800U and 850U were released.

So again, just to confirm, you haven't actually tested this set yourself, is that right?

If people want to call the flicker Cinematic that is fine.

I'm glad the people have your approval, but the word is "filmic"

Most consumers that own the Panasonic display will not see a flicker since they keep the displays at the default 60HZ setting.

Sorry, do you have any data that supports that, or are you just making stuff up? From what I gather across the forums most people don't experience flicker in 48Hz mode.

In addition is it not fair to say, given that you have to stand right in front of the screen to measure motion resolution, that the flicker is also being noticed at distances you wouldn't watch a television at to begin with?

[JasonR]

Doby,

I have never seen the set doing 24p @ 48Hz, so I don't know what it looks like. CNET confirms flicker on the 58 inch though...

Video processing: Panasonic equipped this plasma with the capability to change its refresh rate, when fed a native 24-frame signal such as 1080p/24 from a Blu-ray player, from the standard 60Hz to 48Hz, to better match the 24-frame cadence and eliminate the 2:3 pull-down required for 60Hz displays. In theory that's good idea, but in practice the 48Hz refresh rate introduced significant flicker. The flicker was noticeable in every scene but increased in brighter areas, such as the frequent fields of cloud cover or bright skies. The benefit of somewhat smoother motion, without the subtle hitching characteristic of 2:3 pull-down, just wasn't worth the flicker for us, so we left the TV in standard 60Hz mode. It's worth noting that the Pioneer plasmas can refresh at 72Hz, which also avoids 2:3 pull-down but doesn't flicker.

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...l?tag=txt;page

It looks to be a seperate review from the 50 inch as well.

It would still be on my short list when picking a new TV though...