3D/2D Displays that support 3D & 2D & 24p at multiplies of the original frame rate

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

????

Your post is from July 2017, IMAX have had 12-channel object-based audio since May 2015 (Avengers Ultron was the first)

See 3:00 mark:

IMAX® with Laser Tech Featurette - YouTube

Have you seen anything in Laser IMAX? I've never seen anything like it - thanks to the almost total removal of ambient light within the room, OLED-like blacks on massively large screens are possible. Dunkirk in Laser IMAX is the best cinematic experience I've ever had.

Dolbyblue,

Thanks for the YouTube video. I knew IMAX 4K Laser projection existed with the use of dual 4K DLP Laser projectors (Testing began in April of 2012). However as far as I am aware all the IMAX theaters that I have visited have not been upgraded to the new Laser system. Are these IMAX Laser theaters using standard high dynamic range for movies or are the movies being shown in some type of HDR format like Dolby Vision HDR? I do not see IMAX theaters advertising what type of HDR they are using.

I did not realize that IMAX is experimenting with object based surround sound. Does IMAX offer any movies in DTS X, Auro3D, or Dolby ATMOS?

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Dolbyblue,

Thanks for the YouTube video. I knew IMAX 4K Laser projection existed with the use of dual 4K DLP Laser projectors (Testing began in April of 2012). However as far as I am aware all the IMAX theaters that I have visited have not been upgraded to the new Laser system. Are these IMAX Laser theaters using standard high dynamic range for movies or are the movies being shown in some type of HDR format like Dolby Vision HDR? I do not see IMAX theaters advertising what type of HDR they are using.

I did not realize that IMAX is experimenting with object based surround sound. Does IMAX offer any movies in DTS X, Auro3D, or Dolby ATMOS?

It's an odd approach to claim they're "experimenting" with object based sound when every single Laser IMAX installation has the new 12 channel system, also capable of full Rec.2020 and double the contrast of 15/70 celluloid IMAX screens.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

It's an odd approach to claim they're "experimenting" with object based sound when every single Laser IMAX installation has the new 12 channel system, also capable of full Rec.2020 and double the contrast of 15/70 celluloid IMAX screens.

I have nothing against IMAX, IMAX laser can have the same picture quality as Dolby Cinema with HDR and same audio quality with object based surround sound. Also where does one go to see the new Laser IMAX theaters? I went to IMAX website and typed in the state I live in and it showed only regular IMAX theaters with no mention of IMAX Laser.

That is good that every new laser IMAX theater has the capability of HDR and object based surround sound. However it would be nice to know what HDR format and object based surround format IMAX uses in their IMAX Laser theaters. Perhaps IMAX supports Dolby Vision HDR and other forms of HDR. Maybe IMAX supports Dolby ATMOS, DTS X, and Auro 3D. However it’s possible to be in a IMAX Laser theater and the movie being shown is only in SDR with standard surround sound (This would most likely be older classic movies and to a lesser degree new movies). Unless movie theaters start advertising what formats the movie is being shown in, its hard for the average consumer to try and figure it out. Maybe I need to contact IMAX directly to find out this information.

[dobyblue]

Laser IMAX locations:

US/Canada

Alberta
TELUS World of Science – Edmonton IMAX Theatre, Edmonton

British Columbia
IMAX Victoria, Royal BC Museum

California
AMC Loews Metreon 16 & IMAX
AMC Universal CityWalk Stadium 19 & IMAX
IMAX, California Science Center
TCL Chinese Theatres IMAX

Florida
Autonation IMAX, Museum of Discovery & Science

Illinois
Navy Pier IMAX at AMC

Massachusetts
Sunbrella IMAX 3D Theater Reading

Missouri
Branson's IMAX - Entertainment Complex

New York
AMC Lincoln Square 13 IMAX Theatre

Ontario
La Salle IMAX, Science North
Scotiabank Toronto & IMAX

Quebec
IMAX Telus Montreal Science Centre

Tennessee
IMAX 3D, Tennessee Aquarium

Texas
IMAX, The Bullock Texas State History Museum

Virginia
Airbus IMAX, Stephen F. Udvar-Hazy Center

Washington
Boeing IMAX, Pacific Science Center

Washington DC
Lockheed Martin IMAX, National Air & Space Museum


International

Australia
IMAX, Melbourne Museum

Belguim
Kinepolis Brussels & IMAX

China
Dongguan Wanda & IMAX
Harbin Tai Lai Era & IMAX
IMAX, Liaoning Science & Techonology Museam
Kunming Panxing Dadu LLC & IMAX

France
Futuroscope - Kinemax IMAX Theatre
Gaumont 15 Cinema & IMAX
Gaumont Montpellier Multiplexe & IMAX
Pathe La Valette & IMAX

Germany
Cinestar Berlin & IMAX
Filmpalast AM ZKM IMAX
IMAX 3D, Sinsheim Auto & Technik Museum

Italy
UCI Cinemas Orio & IMAX

Japan
109 Cinemas Osaka Expocity & IMAX

Kuwait
IMAX, The Scientific Center Kuwait

Mexico
Megapantalla IMAX Bonorte

New Zealand
Event Cinemas Queen Street IMAX

Qatar
Novo Mall of Qatar & IMAX

Russia
Formula Kino Kutuzovsky & IMAX

South Korea
CGV Yongsan & IMAX

Switzerland
Pathe Mall of Switzerland & IMAX – Ebikon

Taiwan
Miramar IMAX

UAE
Novo IMG Dubai & IMAX, Dubai
VOX Cinemas & IMAX, Dubai

United Kingdom
Cineworld Sheffield & IMAX
Empire Leicester Square

[HDTV1080P]

Thanks for the list, according to the list there is no Laser IMAX locations in the state I live in. But there is a few Dolby Cinema locations in the state I live in. Dolby Cinema offers Dolby Vision HDR with Dolby ATMOS at 100% of their locations. Dolby Cinema is just like IMAX Laser using two 4K Laser DLP projectors. It appears Dolby Cinema has more locations when compared to IMAX Laser. IMAX now has some competition. IMAX Laser and Dolby Cinema are both really good theaters.

[HDTV1080P]

Dolby Cinema

• Atlanta
  
• AMC DINE-IN North Point Mall 12
• AMC Southlake 24
• AMC Sugarloaf Mills 18
• Austin
  
• AMC Barton Creek Square 14
• Baltimore
  
• AMC Columbia 14
• AMC White Marsh 16
• Baton Rouge
  
• AMC Baton Rouge 16
• Charlotte
  
• AMC Concord Mills 24
• Chicago
  
• AMC Loews Crestwood 18
• AMC Oakbrook Center 12
• AMC River East 21
• AMC Showplace Naperville 16
• AMC Showplace Village Crossing 18
• AMC South Barrington 24
• Cincinnati
  
• AMC Newport On The Levee 20
• AMC West Chester 18
• Clifton
  
• AMC Clifton Commons 16
• Columbus
  
• AMC DINE-IN Easton Town Center 30
• Dallas / Ft. Worth
  
• AMC DINE-IN Mesquite 30
• AMC Firewheel 18
• AMC NorthPark 15
• AMC The Parks At Arlington 18
• Village On The Parkway 9

• Denver
  
• AMC Arapahoe Crossing 16
• AMC Flatiron Crossing 14
• AMC Highlands Ranch 24
• AMC Westminster Promenade 24
• Detroit
  
• AMC Star Gratiot 15
• Eatontown
  
• AMC Monmouth Mall 15
• Houston
  
• AMC Deerbrook 24
• AMC First Colony 24
• AMC Gulf Pointe 30
• AMC Katy Mills 20
• AMC Willowbrook 24
• Indianapolis
  
• AMC Castleton Square 14
• Jacksonville
  
• AMC Orange Park 24
• Kansas City
  
• AMC Barrywoods 24
• AMC Town Center 20
• Las Vegas
  
• AMC Town Square 18
• Los Angeles
  
• AMC Burbank 16
• AMC Century City 15
• AMC DINE-IN Ontario Mills 30
• AMC DINE-IN South Bay Galleria 16
• AMC Del Amo 18
• AMC Norwalk 20
• AMC Orange 30

• AMC Promenade 16
• AMC Puente Hills 20
• AMC Santa Anita 16
• AMC Tyler Galleria 16
• AMC Victoria Gardens 12
• Miami / Ft. Lauderdale
  
• AMC Aventura 24
• AMC Pembroke Lakes 9
• AMC Sunset Place 24
• Minneapolis / St. Paul
  
• AMC Rosedale 14
• AMC Southdale 16
• New Orleans
  
• AMC DINE-IN Clearview Palace 12
• AMC Elmwood Palace 20
• New York City
  
• AMC Empire 25
• Norfolk
  
• AMC Hampton Towne Centre 24
• Oklahoma City
  
• AMC Quail Springs Mall 24
• Orlando / Daytona Beach
  
• AMC Altamonte Mall 18
• Paramus
  
• AMC Garden State 16
• Philadelphia
  
• AMC Neshaminy 24
• Phoenix
  
• AMC Desert Ridge 18
• AMC Mesa Grand 14
• AMC Westgate 20
• Port Chester
  
• AMC Loews Port Chester 14

• Rockaway
  
• AMC Rockaway 16
• San Diego
  
• AMC Mission Valley 20
• AMC Plaza Bonita 14
• San Francisco
  
• AMC Metreon 16
• AMC NewPark 12
• San Jose
  
• AMC Eastridge 15
• Seattle / Tacoma
  
• AMC Loews Alderwood Mall 16
• AMC Woodinville 12
• Spokane
  
• AMC River Park Square 20
• Tallahassee
  
• AMC Tallahassee 20
• Tampa / St. Petersburg
  
• AMC The Regency 20
• AMC Veterans 24
• AMC Woodlands Square 20
• Vernon Hills
  
• AMC Hawthorn 12
• Washington D.C.
  
• AMC Hoffman Center 22
• AMC Loews Georgetown 14
• AMC Potomac Mills 18
• AMC Tysons Corner 16

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Thanks for the list, according to the list there is no Laser IMAX locations in the state I live in. But there is a few Dolby Cinema locations in the state I live in. Dolby Cinema offers Dolby Vision HDR with Dolby ATMOS at 100% of their locations. Dolby Cinema is just like IMAX Laser using two 4K Laser DLP projectors. It appears Dolby Cinema has more locations when compared to IMAX Laser. IMAX now has some competition. IMAX Laser and Dolby Cinema are both really good theaters.

I have no doubt they're both fantastic, I typically won't go to IMAX unless it contains scenes shot in IMAX...that's where the real advantage lies and where the competition cannot compete - for example all Dolby Cinemas showed Dunkirk in 2.20:1, going to Laser IMAX and seeing 75% of the movie in 1.43:1 full frame IMAX with a far superior picture overall to the projected 15/70 celluloid version has blown away every other cinematic experience I've ever had, from the Leicester Square Odeon to the old Uptown Cinema in Toronto (ex-jewel of TIFF) to a private IMAX friends and family screen in Oakville...none come even close. Now some may not care about the immersion but to me it's jaw dropping and I want more. More, more more!

Consider also that the IMAX 12-channel system is using monster IMAX speakers all around and while I think the SPLs get a little excessive, the low end is the envy of every HT and cinema I've ever been in.

I hope you get to experience a movie soon that features IMAX-shot scenes, in Laser IMAX, I have no doubt the superlatives will be similar to mine.

I'm excited by the news that the upcoming Avengers movies will be fully shot on IMAX cameras, this is what IMAX Laser is meant for. Also it sounds like there are enough scenes in The Last Jedi shot on IMAX that I'll be making a trip to Toronto around Christmas. Their schedule suggests they're showing 3 of the 4 showings in 3D and 1 in 2D, Laser IMAX 2D Star Wars! Yes, I think I may just have to opt for the 4pm 2D screening.

Based on Dolby's website there aren't any Dolby Cinemas in Canada yet, is that your take too? I can find screens with Dolby Atmos, etc., but no "Dolby Cinema". Might have to send Cineplex an e-mail.

[HDTV1080P]

Yes it does not appear Canada has Dolby Cinema theaters yet. It looks like this is a AMC exclusive for now.

[HDTV1080P]

Cheapest native 4K LCOS Projector is now only $5,000

Native 4K projectors with a true 4096 x 2160 imaging chips (also 3840 x 2160 is supported) use to cost around $25,000, however the new Sony VPL-VW285ES has a list price of only $5,000. This model does not support Dolby Vision HDR, does not support 480i input resolution, and reduces the video image from 10 bits to 8 bits when a 60Hz 4K and 60Hz UHD source is detected.

One negative about Sony 4K LCOS projectors is that they do not offer passive 3D glasses, instead one has to use active 3-D glasses. Another issue is there is no 4K quality consumer 3D format, and also the Sony 4K projectors have no way of inputting a 4K quality 3D signal, therefore the projector will upscale the standard 1080P Blu-ray 3D format to 3840 x 2160P using active glasses. In the commercial movie theaters Sony LCOS projectors use a special REALD 3D cinema technology to offer flicker free 2K quality 3D images using passive glasses. Hopefully one day Sony will offer 2K quality 3-D on consumer projectors using passive 3D glasses.

In the Commercial movie theaters Sony 4K SXRD projectors display 4K 2-D images at 4K but 3-D images are displayed at 2K quality. Sony combines a single 4K projector and a 3D dual lens adapter with RealD technology. The dual 3-D lens adapter turns the single Sony SXRD 4K projector into a 3-D polarized system that will project two different 2K images for the left and right eye. The amazing thing about the Sony 4K single projector system configured with the RealD technology is that they can display 24fps source material at 24 Hz, 48fps source material at 48 Hz, and 60fps source material at 60Hz. So 2-D movies are shown on the screen at 24 Hz and 3-D movies can be shown at 48Hz (24Hz each eye). Also any future native 2-D 48fps and 60fps movies can be shown at 48 Hz and 60 Hz. The Sony SXRD 4K projectors use a flicker free 24fps process that is comparable in performance to the highend 2K and 4K DLP projectors that offer no flicker at 24fps do to no black time. However this quality Sony projection system is not offered to the consumer market, and possible might never be offered. In the ideal world the Sony 4K SXRD (LCOS) projectors would use REALD 3D passive glasses technology with a silver screen. Maybe leaving the active glasses 3D feature in the projector for consumers that do not want to upgrade their screen would be ideal, but the option to turn on passive glasses with a silver screen would be ideal. Right now true 4096 x 2160P DLP projectors cost around $100,000+. If Sony could offer a 4K projector with REALD 3-D passive glasses for under $30,000 that would be ideal. Then one day maybe under $10,000.

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...ojector-review

[HDTV1080P]

Even consumer 3 chip LCD projectors are not capable of displaying true 3840 x 2160P. One has to either spend $100,000+ for a high-end 4K DLP projector or they need to get a entry level Sony LCOS projector for only $5,000.


A few select quotes from the Sound and Vision article:


"Native 4K imaging—where the chips display all 8.3 million individual pixels (3840 x 2160) in each frame simultaneously—is still rare in an affordable consumer projector. Currently, the entry price is $5,000, for Sony’s new VPL-VW285ES. But last year, Epson introduced two 3LCD models that use pixel shifting to achieve an apparent resolution close to 4K."


"Epson calls their technology “4K Enhancement.” The imaging chips (one each for red, green, and blue) each provide 2 million pixels—standard 1080p."

Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/content/epson-home-cinema-4000-4k-enhanced-3lcd-projector-review#1oCdBBqQCMw0vjgb.99

[HDTV1080P]

This is a interesting read regarding HDR:


https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=2859

[HDTV1080P]

Another HDR format coming in 2019, but it might only be used for ATSC 3.0.


https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...05&postcount=1

[HDTV1080P]

LG OLED flat panel reliability keeps improving

Back in 2008 OLED lifespans were rated at only 17,000 hours. Then they were slowly improved to 30,000 hours, 36,000 hours, 50,000 hours, and the latest LG OLED flat panels are designed to last 100,000 hours which is around 30 years if one watches 10 hours of TV every day. Some old Plasma screens are rated to only last 60,000 hours while other Plasmas are rated to last up to 100,000 hours (those are half brightness ratings). Therefore, OLED flat panels are getting to be much more reliable and according to the specs might last up to 30 years. However many high-end flat panels break within 10-20 years and end up needing some type of circuit board repair, but it’s good to known that if one can still get their flat panel repaired that under ideal conditions the display might end up lasting up to 30 years. While most people replace their display within 10 years, within 15-20 years the majority of the population upgrades to a new display. Very rarely will someone keep a display 30 years. Back in the CRT tube TV days, many times a TV picture tube would go bad after 20 years or for some reason the TV after 20 years was no longer repairable. Higher-end flat panels have better build quality. When consumers purchase large LCD screens under $500, some of the lower quality LCD screens might have a maximum lifespan of 10 years. In the real world if a low cost under $500 LCD flat panel breaks in 3 years, sometimes it’s cheaper to replace it with a brand new model then to get it fixed if it’s even still fixable. There is always the possibility that a low-end LCD flat panel under ideal conditions might last 20 years, but realistically one is looking at around 10 years since the build quality is not as good when compared to the higher end LCD and higher-end OLED models.

On pages 26,28,30,31,32, and 33 of the January 2018 Widescreen Review magazine there is an excellent article on the positives and negatives of OLED flat panel screens. Overall OLED flat panels are the best quality display in terms of picture quality when compared to any other display, however LCD screens still have a brighter picture when compared to OLED (Some HDR scenes need more brightness). Plasmas like the Pioneer plasma have better motion quality when compared to OLED. The advantage of OLED screens is that they have better motion quality when compared to LCD screens. OLED is also the King of viewing angles when compared to LCD screens, and OLED has absolute black levels that no other display can match.

Select Quotes from page 33 of the January 2018 Widescreen Review magazine


“For example, LG has publicly stated that they were measuring 36,000 hours of useful lifetime for their OLED TV’s in 2013. A more recent claim by LG is 50,000 hours. The most recent claim is 100,000 hours, which would be equivalent to watching a TV 10 hours a day for thirty years.”



For a limited time a sample copy of the January 2018 Widescreen Review magazine can be downloaded at the following website.

https://www.widescreenreview.com/wsr...il.php?current

[HDTV1080P]

With HDR10 being mandatory for 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray players, there are now at least 3 optional HDR formats that the BDA has officially approved (4 total HDR standards).


quote

"Another positive development is the BDA’s recent decision to include HDR10+ as an optional high dynamic range (HDR) platform in the updated of Ultra HD Blu-ray specification (version 3.2) along with Dolby Vision and Advanced HDR by Technicolor."

Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...LxestOk2v9J.99

[HDTV1080P]

QUOTE


"While we’re on the subject of 3D, I should add that the new Ultra HD Blu-ray format does not support 3D, although most Ultra HD Blu-ray players can play Blu-ray 3D discs. And with big Hollywood movies like Wonder Woman and Blade Runner 2049 still being released theatrically in a 3D format, 3D enthusiasts can expect to see more titles turn up on Blu-ray 3D disc going forward."

Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...SQQmuDO5doP.99

[HDTV1080P]

Here is a Sound and Vision magazine review of a true 4096 x 2160P projector:


"With the new VPL-VW885ES, Sony has added a premium laser model to its consumer projector line, but even at $25,000, it comes with some compromises."

Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...utJszBtspyA.99

[HDTV1080P]

I have always theorized that an 8K optical disc format would not launch until around 2026, if at all. Maybe around 2026 consumers might see a new 8K optical disc format on the market. However with many consumers getting 10Gbps and 1Gbps residential Internet service (and possible 100Gbps by 2026+), there might never be an 8K optical disc format that is launched. Consumers might instead download and stream 8K content going across the Internet.



What is interesting is a professional article in Widescreen Review magazine is predicting that an 8K version of Ultra HD Blu-ray will not occur until at least the year 2020. My personal belief is that its more like the year 2026 since major advances in consumer electronics in terms of resolution quality happen around every 10 years (One of the reasons for this also is because the average consumer upgrades their equipment around every 10 years, and if there is something that is much better quality on the market they are more likely to do so). In 1997 the 480i DVD format launched. Then 9 years later in 2006 the standard 2-D 1080P Blu-ray format launched (2010 saw the launch of the Blu-ray 3D 1080P format but the resolution did not change). In 2016 the 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray format launched (exactly 10 years since the 1080P Blu-ray format launched).



Even if 8K displays started appearing on the market in 2020,that is too soon to launch an 8K Ultra HD Blu-ray disc. A new video compression system (hopefully lossless instead of lossy) would need to be developed to replace HEVC. Then an optical disc that could store a minimum of 200GB of data (2,000GB+ needed for lossless 8K video), would need to be developed.



I could be wrong but I am still sticking to a 2026 time frame before consumers see a 8K optical disc, unless streaming or download offers a 8K option and there is never a 8K optical disc. If 8K optical disc does appear on the market one day, then that means streaming and download has peaked in demand. Maybe the so called experts are wrong about streaming one day replacing audio CD’s, DVD’s, and Blu-ray discs.



QUOTE from page 46 in the March 2018 Widescreen Review magazine:

“An 8K version of Ultra HD Blu-ray probably won’t appear before 2020, and I haven’t heard of any plans to broadcast 8K in the United States.”

[revgen]

Streaming will never replace physical media completely. There will always be a certain percentage of the population that want to own their movies.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by revgen

Streaming will never replace physical media completely. There will always be a certain percentage of the population that want to own their movies.

I hope you are correct. 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray downloads to 12TB or 20TB hard drives offers the exact same picture and sound quality as optical discs. Plus one can access the Blu-ray images from any TV in the house from a onscreen menu. However one can never transfer ownership and sale the download movies that were purchased. If the company that offered the Blu-ray image downloads goes out of business, then when the hard drive breaks after 5-10+ years, one loses their entire collection. Optical discs like Blu-ray can last up to a 1,000 years. Where family members every 70-120 years can pass the movie on to future generations to watch (some movies are never released on newer formats) or sale the movie to someone.


I like physical media and I hope the so called experts that are predicting its death are wrong.

[HDTV1080P]

ATSC 3.0 is capable of 8K broadcasts, however broadcasters are planning on using the technology in the United States for 4K Ultra HD broadcasts with HDR in the early years. One of the reasons for this is that there is no 8K flat panels on the market for the average consumer to purchase. Therefore at least the first and second generation of ATSC 3.0 tuners will have a maximum resolution of 4K Ultra HD resolution in theory. With possible ATSC 3.0 being used one day in the far future for 8K broadcasts with required equipment upgrades by both the consumer and TV stations.