Spears & Munsil 4K UHD HDR Benchmark (Test Discs) May 15, 2023

[Bill C]

Thinking about buying this. How hard is it to use and how much would it benefit me ? I'm past a beginner but way shy of a pro. I have a lg. 65sk80 tv. and a lg. 4k player 90. Thank you.

[stigdu]

I had it but sold it on as I think it's geared more towards professional calibrators.

Excellent disc with a plethora of options and some stunning 4k footage, but way too complicated for me.

[Keenan]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

Good idea. Similarly how about a test to show whether 25fps or 50fps content is being converted to 60fps by the display.

And whether or not the signal path is correctly playing true 24.0 fps as opposed to forcing 23.967 frame rate playback on it. Netflix seems to be creating more and more content with a true 24.0 frame rate and when using devices that ignore that framerate there's a frame skip/glitch about every 40 secs or so.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by stigdu

I had it but sold it on as I think it's geared more towards professional calibrators.

Excellent disc with a plethora of options and some stunning 4k footage, but way too complicated for me.

That's how I felt about their previous Blu-ray calibration disc -- which came in the box with my Oppo BDP-83 -- save for the sharpness pattern, if I recall correctly, which helped me dial in that parameter pretty effectively.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Keenan

And whether or not the signal path is correctly playing true 24.0 fps as opposed to forcing 23.967 frame rate playback on it. Netflix seems to be creating more and more content with a true 24.0 frame rate and when using devices that ignore that framerate there's a frame skip/glitch about every 40 secs or so.

Oooooh that's a pet hate of mine. Not that I watch Netflix but that subtle frame drop when you have 23.98 forced as 24 or vice versa really pisses me off.

The trouble with using a disc to gauge it, even on a UHD player with the Netflix app, is that the video processing path the disc takes isn't always exactly the same as what the app takes.

[Keenan]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Oooooh that's a pet hate of mine. Not that I watch Netflix but that subtle frame drop when you have 23.98 forced as 24 or vice versa really pisses me off.

The trouble with using a disc to gauge it, even on a UHD player with the Netflix app, is that the video processing path the disc takes isn't always exactly the same as what the app takes.

Yeah, I figured there would be some logistical signal path issues but I figured maybe smarter folks than I could come up with a solution.

On an up note, I picked up the new Nvidia Shield yesterday and it actually plays Netflix 24.0 fps content correctly. It requires a button press on each such title as it's a beta feature currently but that's a huge step given that the likes of Apple, Roku, and Amazon all seem to ignore the fact that 24.0 fps even exists, none of their devices handle it properly.

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Thanks for asking! I'd love to see a new motion resolution test and a test to confirm 24p film based content is being frame rate converted to 48fps, 72fps or 96 fps by the display.

Hi Robert,

Thank you for the suggestions. This is on the disc today under Video Processing.

Motion Res. Half Cosine and Motion Res Square are our motion resolution patterns that cover from 0-18 pixels per frame.

xXx and Ticker are both 23.976p that will show if converted to higher rates using frame rate conversion. The motion blur will go away and they will become smooth. If played back at an integer rate vs. 23.976p, they will have a visible glitch every so often.

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

That's how I felt about their previous Blu-ray calibration disc -- which came in the box with my Oppo BDP-83 -- save for the sharpness pattern, if I recall correctly, which helped me dial in that parameter pretty effectively.

Technically that would be the previous-previous disc. The BDP-83 had our first BD disc. We shipped a 3D BD disc (2nd Edition) four years later and then the UHD HDR edition five years after that.

The first batch of Atmos test signals we created this week. Hoping to encode them next week and then they will be tested. Once those are finished, then the matching DTS:X versions will be created and encoded. They will cover 5.1.0 - 9.1.6.

[Stacey Spears]

Just wanted to provide an update on the update. We are close to finishing up the Atmos audio stuff. We have been working on that for the past few months. Once that is done, then we will get the DTS audio stuff created. What we have done will allow anything from 5.1.0 to 9.1.6 to be setup.

The beginners guide is also being formatted now for eBook and PDF and will hopefully be out by the end of the month.

[Geoff D]

Can you not do a version now that has no audio shite at all?

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Can you not do a version now that has no audio shite at all?

You do this for shock value, or just want to save a few quid?

Its a HT benchmark, audio is usually part of it.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

You do this for shock value, or just want to save a few quid?

Its a HT benchmark, audio is usually part of it.

A little from column A, a little from column B. I gots no use for the audio stuff so a version with just the video patterns would suit me perfickly.

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Can you not do a version now that has no audio shite at all?

The two biggest areas of feedback were no audio and lack of documentation. So, unless you are willing to pay $40k for a one off disc, we can't do it.

We still have months of work just to finish the Dolby Vision patterns. The amount of steps just to encode one pattern in DV is a more than HDR10. And they are all manual.

On the plus side, many have provided feedback on current patterns, which has led to improvements as well as the development of new patterns.

The montage had some edit changes with new shots added and old shots removed. We are currently waiting on the re-grade.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

The two biggest areas of feedback were no audio and lack of documentation. So, unless you are willing to pay $40k for a one off disc, we can't do it.

We still have months of work just to finish the Dolby Vision patterns. The amount of steps just to encode one pattern in DV is a more than HDR10. And they are all manual.

On the plus side, many have provided feedback on current patterns, which has led to improvements as well as the development of new patterns.

The montage had some edit changes with new shots added and old shots removed. We are currently waiting on the re-grade.

Ever thought about making the patterns available for download like Ryan Masciola does?

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Ever thought about making the patterns available for download like Ryan Masciola does?

Downloaded files have a number of downsides for us from copy protection to compatibility. We have a number of files that play fine on one display but not another.

We are looking at a possible Apple TV app next year. We will know more in a few months if we can make this work.

[Bluyoda]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

The two biggest areas of feedback were no audio and lack of documentation. So, unless you are willing to pay $40k for a one off disc, we can't do it.

We still have months of work just to finish the Dolby Vision patterns. The amount of steps just to encode one pattern in DV is a more than HDR10. And they are all manual.

On the plus side, many have provided feedback on current patterns, which has led to improvements as well as the development of new patterns.

The montage had some edit changes with new shots added and old shots removed. We are currently waiting on the re-grade.

So, that means there is going to be a revised edition coming out?
And if so, when can it be expected to hit shelves?

PS: I have your HD Benchmark disc, and found it quite easy to follow. Especially loved the instruction when pressing the upper arrow button, so one doesn't have to turn on the lights to read the included booklet.
The only thing missing as a gamma test pattern. Helped me heaps though, so thank you.

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by Bluyoda

So, that means there is going to be a revised edition coming out?
And if so, when can it be expected to hit shelves?

PS: I have your HD Benchmark disc, and found it quite easy to follow. Especially loved the instruction when pressing the upper arrow button, so one doesn't have to turn on the lights to read the included booklet.
The only thing missing as a gamma test pattern. Helped me heaps though, so thank you.

The 2nd edition has gamma patterns. Those only work if the image is not being scaled or is scaled in linear light, which is most often not the case.

We are targeting this summer. Existing owners of the UHD HDR Benchmark will be able to upgrade to it for ~1/4 of the price, but only original owners with proof of purchase.

We are dependent on some 3rd parties for the audio. We also replaced four shots in the current montage and removed even more to make some shots longer. It was recently re-graded, so the purple issues have been fixed. The gamut was clipped on render by Resolve. Resolve's color managed pipeline does not seem to be capable of correctly mapping the gamut outside of 2020 back into 2020. We were able to render EXRs that preserve the negative values instead of clipping them. Last time they were clipped. This gives Transkoder more information when it remaps into 2020. There is a door on the LA skyline that turned purple, which should be blue. Same for a crane on the Seattle Skyline. Both of these are blue this time around. Or should be!

We are also planning a video shoot with several models near the end of February for some head shots to see how processing impacts skin tones. We are hoping to shoot up to 6 different races. Then we would have a wide shot with all six and them close-up's of each. We keep getting asked for this type of content.

We are still trying to figure out the help issue. Worst case is we will encode as its own video, which doubles the number of files. They may be text only due to the format using palatalized graphics instead of true 24-bit. The first two discs had one pattern per title, which allowed the pop-up help to work. There are 999 titles allowed on a disc and we had >1400 patterns on the UHD disc. This meant we could not use a title per pattern. We are looking at ways to deal with this. Not every pattern needs help. E.g. I don't believe Window patterns need help. These require a colorimeter and software to use, so if you have those, you should know how to use a window pattern. That will reduce the title problem. The current UHD disc has one menu and nit level per title. e.g. advanced -> evaluation 600 nits is one title.

We also plan to include a lot more patterns on the update. Last weekend I did an initial test run for the video setup menu. Rendering the patterns and encoding them. Need to do the Dolby bit now, which is a massive amount of work as it requires several steps. Not just render and encode.

We have also made tweaks to several patterns. e.g. One tweak was adding four little bars of color to the color space eval pattern designed for green only mode to check color decoding vs. going to another pattern. Over the weekend, while doing the test, I noticed the anti-aliasing was not ideal for HDR. Turns out we had not updated that pattern, and a few others, to specify 2084 or Gamma 2.4 depending on HDR vs. SDR. This only applies to the text on the pattern. Its the little details like that we find important. Does not impact the use of the pattern, just our pride.

There is still a little time if there is content missing on the current disc that they would like to see on the new. e.g. one user found an issue with our ADL pattern. Not a bug, but a way to improve them. After that, we ended up making two other types of patterns based on their feedback.

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

There is still a little time if there is content missing on the current disc that they would like to see on the new. e.g. one user found an issue with our ADL pattern. Not a bug, but a way to improve them. After that, we ended up making two other types of patterns based on their feedback.

Thank you @Stacey Spears! I've thought of two, actually:

1. A "coming out of black" torture test for OLEDs. The sort of pattern that would trigger the "near-black chroma overshoot" problem that LG 2018 and 2019 OLEDs have which LG has worked around largely, but not eliminated completely, with firmware changes.
Similar patterns which do this are shown in Vincent's pattern here (hard to see with his pattern)

[Show spoiler]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjOb...youtu.be&t=280

and jk82's patterns here:

[Show spoiler]

https://youtu.be/Sl_t3UQ3gAk?t=73

and

[Show spoiler]

https://youtu.be/t5ZePp5_rh8

2. A screen uniformity test designed to expose "banding" on OLEDs, a bit like the one here

[Show spoiler]

https://youtu.be/dP4vEGREGD4?t=89

...but without the ridiculous "Fat Harry White" voiceover, and much much slower. Instead of rocketing through the low %age values with no time to properly see whether there's handing, I'd say about 30 seconds on each different percentage grey.

Thanks

edit: ps. I've realised I included a reference people may not get "Fat Harry White" was a parody of Barry White by a much-loved radio double-act here in the UK.
Example here:

[Show spoiler]

https://youtu.be/UpFNxhCAbE0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j7WMXJpW7E

[Geoff D]

I'm from da UK and have never heard of Fat Harry White. Huh.

[Scottishguy]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I'm from da UK and have never heard of Fat Harry White. Huh.

It's a Dinner For One situation all over again.