Spears & Munsil 4K UHD HDR Benchmark (Test Discs) May 15, 2023

[Fendergopher]

The deeper people dig, the more HDR implementation shows itself to be a rushed mess. A beautiful mess, but still a mess.

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by Fendergopher

The deeper people dig, the more HDR implementation shows itself to be a rushed mess. A beautiful mess, but still a mess.

Yes, but in the future we could have native PQ panels instead of native 2.2 gamma panels. The brilliant thing is that nothing needs to change in the standards, the content, or anything. Instead it's a huge change to the factories, and the tooling on the production side, and the firmware of the TVs.

Once that's done then one year, the annual "tiny upgrade" will be "PQ panels".

Then, 10 years after that, based on the current glacial rate of progress, "12 bit PQ panels", and we will finally be able to watch our 4K Dolby Vision titles properly, and the "no-one needs 12 bit panels" brigade can shut up.

[HDTV1080P]

select quotes

"Long-time readers and experienced videophiles will instantly recognize the Spears and Munsil brand. Over the years S&M has released what are arguably the best video evaluation discs on the market for setting up video displays of all descriptions, including televisions. While it's incorrect to state that these discs alone can fully calibrate these devices (a genuine calibration requires expensive test equipment not available to the average enthusiast), it can take you a big step toward achieving your TV's best performance."

"Some might wonder why the complete package, including the test patterns, aren't available for purchase and download, since so much information is readily available online today. The quick answer: streaming is very good today, but Blu-ray and Ultra HD Blu-ray discs are still superior, particularly when we're trying to discern (and cure, if possible), even the smallest flaws in the TV as delivered while ensuring that those flaws aren't in the source. That's why I always use disc sources in a review. I'll also watch the odd newscast, weather channel report, or sports event, but will rarely comment on any artifacts I see from such broadcast or streamed sources. If I haven't also seen similar artifacts on discs, they're likely in the source and were not produced by the TV."

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...a-hd-benchmark

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

select quotes

"Long-time readers and experienced videophiles will instantly recognize the Spears and Munsil brand. Over the years S&M has released what are arguably the best video evaluation discs on the market for setting up video displays of all descriptions, including televisions. While it's incorrect to state that these discs alone can fully calibrate these devices (a genuine calibration requires expensive test equipment not available to the average enthusiast), it can take you a big step toward achieving your TV's best performance."

"Some might wonder why the complete package, including the test patterns, aren't available for purchase and download, since so much information is readily available online today. The quick answer: streaming is very good today, but Blu-ray and Ultra HD Blu-ray discs are still superior, particularly when we're trying to discern (and cure, if possible), even the smallest flaws in the TV as delivered while ensuring that those flaws aren't in the source. That's why I always use disc sources in a review. I'll also watch the odd newscast, weather channel report, or sports event, but will rarely comment on any artifacts I see from such broadcast or streamed sources. If I haven't also seen similar artifacts on discs, they're likely in the source and were not produced by the TV."

https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...a-hd-benchmark

Thank you for sharing. We have sent a note to them that the manual is available for download on our website under the download section. It is the Ultra HD Benchmark Booklet.
https://spearsandmunsil.com/downloads/

It also looks like our contact form is not working. We disabled it in July when a family member passed away since I knew I would not be checking email for a couple weeks. It does not look like it has worked since it has been turned on. So if you have sent us an email, I apologize! We are working on getting it fixed now. Though, I did enjoy the piece and quiet.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

Thank you for sharing. We have sent a note to them that the manual is available for download on our website under the download section. It is the Ultra HD Benchmark Booklet.
https://spearsandmunsil.com/downloads/

It also looks like our contact form is not working. We disabled it in July when a family member passed away since I knew I would not be checking email for a couple weeks. It does not look like it has worked since it has been turned on. So if you have sent us an email, I apologize! We are working on getting it fixed now. Though, I did enjoy the piece and quiet.

Sorry for your loss of a family member passing away. Thanks for the PDF links.

[aboulfad69]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

…
I am also planning to send my ATV measurements of YCbCr and RGB to Vincent in hopes he will follow-up and possibly report on the issue. Apple actually listens to Vincent. …

Hello, did Vincent take a look at this? Would you be willing to share those results which you eluded to some ATV issues in this previous post.

Another Q: how many DV P7 test patterns are there in the UHD disc ? Thank you.

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by aboulfad69

Hello, did Vincent take a look at this? Would you be willing to share those results which you eluded to some ATV issues in this previous post.

Another Q: how many DV P7 test patterns are there in the UHD disc ? Thank you.

Everything is packed until I move in November.

All patterns on the HDR disc(s) are available in DV P7, HDR10+ and HDR10 (350, 600, 1000, 2000, 4000 and 10,000).

[OhDaesu19]

Noob here so I apologize if this has been answered but having difficulty getting result using the search option. I recently purchased an LG C2 and want to calibrate it...with that being said I can use the S&M 4K discs without any equipment or do I need to buy special equipment? Thanks in advance.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by OhDaesu19

Noob here so I apologize if this has been answered but having difficulty getting result using the search option. I recently purchased an LG C2 and want to calibrate it...with that being said I can use the S&M 4K discs without any equipment or do I need to buy special equipment? Thanks in advance.

I'd imagine you could do brightness and contrast, but you'd need a colorimeter and spectrometer to calibrate your display.

A lot of the content is to test displays after calibration, to see where they clip highlight detail, how they display interlaced signals etc cetera.

The C2 should be decent out of the box, but you'd only know with the meters.

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by OhDaesu19

Noob here so I apologize if this has been answered but having difficulty getting result using the search option. I recently purchased an LG C2 and want to calibrate it...with that being said I can use the S&M 4K discs without any equipment or do I need to buy special equipment? Thanks in advance.

The hands down best calibration you can do with an LG is using Calman's autocal for LG. It actually creates a 1D and 3D LUT. There is no better calibration on LG than that. It is also the only way to properly set the black level between SDR, HDR10 and Dolby Vision. By default Dolby Vision looks crushed and HDR10 shows too much information. This is done with the shadow detail adjustment that is part of the autocal process. It modifies the 1D LUT. There is no other way to get them correct, that I am aware of. I should reach out to Portrait and get the latest information on it.

The shadow detail adjustment is done using the Dynamic Range Low pattern from our disc. We gave Portrait a copy of the pattern that they can offer to customers for download and then you play it back from USB stick. It also requires a loupe so you can see at the pixel level.

I don't recall which LG is the first to support the shadow detail adjustment. I don't know if it is the C9 or CX.

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

I don't recall which LG is the first to support the shadow detail adjustment. I don't know if it is the C9 or CX.

In Calman it's oddly put into the "DDC control" window, even though it's nothing like the other features in there, and it only is visible there if you select later models. (2020-on, IIRC). There was a mention that this was only temporary, but I don't know if this has changed.

But as you say, it's entirely a software feature in Calman which merely changes the values of the 1DLUT, lifting the lower values by X amount, up to point Y.

It was not a feature in the firmware of any LG TV, and never needed any particular model to work (despite it being heavily implied at the time that this was the case). It just needs any model which supports the 1DLUT and 3DLUT. That's 2018 and later, or the 2017 models with the special "LUT firmware" which the studios had at the time. The 1DLUT is just calculated differently in the software, using the two values described above, and then uploaded to the TV using the same underlying "upload lut" commands, exactly as before (and already happens hundreds of times during the greyscale autocal process).

For older models, you simply connect "as" a later model to kick Calman into giving you the UI for it. We discovered this before Tyler himself suggested doing it for pre-2020 models on one of the live streams discussing it.

IIRC the 2018 and 2019 models do another change near black in their firmware, ie they don't even properly use the 1DLUT that you upload, they change it and then use that instead , but you just take this into account with the experimentation you do with different values for the amount you lift and where it blends in. You can get good results this way. Or just not use the SD feature, it's optional.

HTH

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

In Calman it's oddly put into the "DDC control" window, even though it's nothing like the other features in there, and it only is visible there if you select later models. (2020-on, IIRC). There was a mention that this was only temporary, but I don't know if this has changed.

But as you say, it's entirely a software feature in Calman which merely changes the values of the 1DLUT, lifting the lower values by X amount, up to point Y.

It was not a feature in the firmware of any LG TV, and never needed any particular model to work (despite it being heavily implied at the time that this was the case). It just needs any model which supports the 1DLUT and 3DLUT. That's 2018 and later, or the 2017 models with the special "LUT firmware" which the studios had at the time. The 1DLUT is just calculated differently in the software, using the two values described above, and then uploaded to the TV using the same underlying "upload lut" commands, exactly as before (and already happens hundreds of times during the greyscale autocal process).

For older models, you simply connect "as" a later model to kick Calman into giving you the UI for it. We discovered this before Tyler himself suggested doing it for pre-2020 models on one of the live streams discussing it.

IIRC the 2018 and 2019 models do another change near black in their firmware, ie they don't even properly use the 1DLUT that you upload, they change it and then use that instead , but you just take this into account with the experimentation you do with different values for the amount you lift and where it blends in. You can get good results this way. Or just not use the SD feature, it's optional.

HTH

I have always assumed the primary reason for the feature the way it was done was simply because most people don't have a colorimeter capable of reading the levels that low with any repeatable accuracy. Calman needs more measurements in that area to fully automate, but unless you have the right colorimeter, you may not get useful data. This does make the control subjective. After calibration, w/o SD, there is a pretty noticeable discrepancy between HDR10 and DV on the DR Low pattern.

The reason for the post is because a reviewer asked me about it last week and mentioned they were calibrated. They were surprised at the difference between DV and HDR10 coming out of black on a C2. I suspect the calibrator was not aware of this control.

I will ask Brian and Cecil to see if they looked at this at the Value Electronics Shootout. Given that they had the HX-310, it should have been easy to spot. Of course, I don't know if they compared HDR10 to DV on test patterns. And they used an OPPO, which has its own issues with DV. Since Samsung was in the mix, I suspect it was HDR10 only.

[David M]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

I will ask Brian and Cecil to see if they looked at this at the Value Electronics Shootout. Given that they had the HX-310, it should have been easy to spot. Of course, I don't know if they compared HDR10 to DV on test patterns. And they used an OPPO, which has its own issues with DV. Since Samsung was in the mix, I suspect it was HDR10 only.

No DoVi at the shootout evaluations, unfortunately. I've recommended they include it in future years.

[INdetectableMAN]

First of all I have to say that I do not believe in color calibration by CMS. I don't think so.

Trying to calibrate an inaccurate color space of millions of colors, using the rudimentary CMS controls of a TV, which also function incorrectly, seems to me to be a grotesque joke and an insult to the intelligence of those attending the shootout. A joke.

If you calibrate, or use, the multiple CMS settings for the S95C's BT2020 that have been posted on another forum, you get cartoonish colors, because you're never going to get everything adjusted, and there will be colors during playback that look grotesque.

In that sense, the skin tones section is magnificent for uncovering the reality on this topic.

The default option auto / P3 is the one that shows better balance and more precise images.

As Samsung has said, in default auto/P3 mode, the TV will reassign anything that falls beyond it to P3 primaries, and it works correctly as expected.

The other option, 2020, is a broader but inaccurate range, and trying to adjust it through a CMS that works poorly is a joke.

You can't calibrate a color space using a cheap, poorly functioning CMS chipset, and even if you get very nice graphics, which I don't doubt because I've seen them before, the reality is that you will get inaccurate and cartoony images elsewhere, and That is something that cannot be solved from a CMS. This is simply impossible. A joke.

[Stacey Spears]

Just an FYI, the skin tone content was created in native 2020. None of the content on our disc was created in P3 and then placed in a 2020 container. All native 2020 generated.

With that said, I don't recall anything really going beyond P3 in the skin tone. We did include both 709 and 2020 SDR versions of the skin tone content. It can be interesting to see how a display handles 2020 SDR.

2020 was originally intended for all UHD content. The initial UHD displays did not support it, and thus the first to offer UHD SDR released it in 709 and everyone followed suite.

Something we did not do on the disc, but wanted to, was to offer 709 HDR and 2020 SDR to compare.

[Stacey Spears]

Someone wanted to see an artifact I had mentioned on OPPO, so I took some cell phone photos. Not the best quality, but they do show the issue.

Panasonic - Note the ringing due to their use of a bicubic scaler for chroma upsampling. It is more defined / sharper than bilinear, which is a positive.


OPPO 4:4:4


OPPO 4:2:2 - Note the vertical lines through chroma and how wide they become.


OPPO was set to UHD output, so the player scaled the image. These are from the HDR10 Scaling HD pattern to make the artifact easier to see. This issue is also visible on the Sony player with MediaTek. I don't recall if it is present in Dolby Vision either on MediaTek.

I don't recall if it comes and goes or is only with 4:2:2 output. Ignore the color moire in the middle, that was from the capture of the image with my cell phone.

[Stacey Spears]

I did get to look at the montage on the Flanders QD-OLED during the SMPTE MTS this week and it looked wonderful! I wish Flanders offered an HDMI input as their QD-OLED is hands down the best QD-OLED display to date. No extra processing to alter the image, proper 3D LUT for calibration. Sony and Samsung should take note.

[INdetectableMAN]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

Just an FYI, the skin tone content was created in native 2020. None of the content on our disc was created in P3 and then placed in a 2020 container. All native 2020 generated.

With that said, I don't recall anything really going beyond P3 in the skin tone. We did include both 709 and 2020 SDR versions of the skin tone content. It can be interesting to see how a display handles 2020 SDR.

2020 was originally intended for all UHD content. The initial UHD displays did not support it, and thus the first to offer UHD SDR released it in 709 and everyone followed suite.

Something we did not do on the disc, but wanted to, was to offer 709 HDR and 2020 SDR to compare.

Probably because of the language he did not understand my message. Excuse me for that.

What I was saying was that you cannot calibrate a completely inaccurate range of colors with a simple CMS because a CMS is a minor and inappropriate tool with which it is impossible to cover a completely inaccurate range of colors.

With 3D LUT yes, with CMS no.

If you try, there will be inaccurate colors resulting from inappropriate methodology using a CMS that cannot address the inaccuracies of such an imprecise color range and so wide

You will fix some colors, others you will not be able to reach, and where these anomalies can be observed is in the skin tones.

Obviously skin tones remain in lesser coverage, that's obvious, but where inaccuracies in an inaccurate range of colors become apparent most quickly are in skin tones.


And to what I was going, which is the origin of my comment. This disc edition is a formidable tool with its all skin tones and colorcheck section.

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

…proper 3D LUT for calibration. Sony and Samsung should take note.

Exact. That's what I was referring to.

[batman2000]

Is there a digital version?

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by batman2000

Is there a digital version?

What's the point of that? The disc is going to give you the best quality and these are professional level calibration tools.