Spears & Munsil 4K UHD HDR Benchmark (Test Discs) May 15, 2023

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by panasonicst60

Seriously I'm a bit disappointed that it took this long. Uhd disc came out in early 2016 and it took over three years for this to happen. While Ryan P. Masciola released the uhd calibrations awhile back. I may still pick one up though

For SDR, the industry has decades of experience and the problem is well understood. HDR is only a few years old. There is so much that is unknown at this time. Tone mapping makes the problem much more difficult.

Hasn't Ryan released two UHD discs so far? If we would have released a disc a year ago, I believe it would have been much worse than what we have today. If we waited another year, I believe it would be much better than what we have today. This is in terms of the right set of patterns.

A number of elements on the patterns are calculated in linear light. Most of our code had assumed 2.4 gamma, so all of that had to be re-factored to support different transfer functions. This impacted small things like anti-aliasing of text, circles, lines, etc... And of course we had to add support for 10-bit. The source code (C++) to generate a pattern is different for 8-bit, 10-bit, 4:4:4, 4:2:2, 4:2:0, RGB, etc... We believe that the best pattern is generated in its native format. There are some exceptions, like color bars, which are generated in RGB and then color converted to 4:2:0. For most though, we generate directly in 4:2:0. This really impacts patterns with chroma resolution. Converted down to 4:2:0 would degrade the pattern.

For Dolby Vision, we will have to do the same thing for 12-bit, at least for the few patterns that will be FEL. Most of the Dolby Vision will be MEL. Ramps will be re-written for 12-bit. Possibly resolution patterns. On that subject, we had an epiphany the other day on how to actually get the correct metadata into a DV encoded stream for profile 7. Problem now is we don't know if the player will correctly insert it or not. Hopefully we will know in a couple of months, once we have written the tools to generate the binary blob. We bounced the idea off a couple of people at this week and we shall see if it works. This means that there will be three versions of every Dolby Vision pattern just like there is five versions of every HDR10 pattern. (10 in some cases) This is why we have ~1500 m2ts files on the disc.

The biggest issue right now is lack of documentation on our part. We are working on it, but it will be awhile before that is ready. Until then, we will answer questions in this thread.

[p5browne]

The problem these days is a constantly moving target!
Why I think it's taking so long for a new Avatar - film it for what's current. Tomorrow, out of date!

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

For SDR, the industry has decades of experience and the problem is well understood. HDR is only a few years old. There is so much that is unknown at this time. Tone mapping makes the problem much more difficult.

Hasn't Ryan released two UHD discs so far? If we would have released a disc a year ago, I believe it would have been much worse than what we have today. If we waited another year, I believe it would be much better than what we have today. This is in terms of the right set of patterns.

A number of elements on the patterns are calculated in linear light. Most of our code had assumed 2.4 gamma, so all of that had to be re-factored to support different transfer functions. This impacted small things like anti-aliasing of text, circles, lines, etc... And of course we had to add support for 10-bit. The source code (C++) to generate a pattern is different for 8-bit, 10-bit, 4:4:4, 4:2:2, 4:2:0, RGB, etc... We believe that the best pattern is generated in its native format. There are some exceptions, like color bars, which are generated in RGB and then color converted to 4:2:0. For most though, we generate directly in 4:2:0. This really impacts patterns with chroma resolution. Converted down to 4:2:0 would degrade the pattern.

For Dolby Vision, we will have to do the same thing for 12-bit, at least for the few patterns that will be FEL. Most of the Dolby Vision will be MEL. Ramps will be re-written for 12-bit. Possibly resolution patterns. On that subject, we had an epiphany the other day on how to actually get the correct metadata into a DV encoded stream for profile 7. Problem now is we don't know if the player will correctly insert it or not. Hopefully we will know in a couple of months, once we have written the tools to generate the binary blob. We bounced the idea off a couple of people at this week and we shall see if it works. This means that there will be three versions of every Dolby Vision pattern just like there is five versions of every HDR10 pattern. (10 in some cases) This is why we have ~1500 m2ts files on the disc.

The biggest issue right now is lack of documentation on our part. We are working on it, but it will be awhile before that is ready. Until then, we will answer questions in this thread.

Good points. I have literally lost count of the amount of updates that Ryan has done since I first bought his patterns (I bought the download and not the disc), not that it's a bad thing as he was was very gracious in adding some patterns that I requested, but his constant revisions - particularly early on - highlights just why the S&M UHD has taken so long...and it's not over yet. I NEEDS that DV disc Stacey!

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Good points. I have literally lost count of the amount of updates that Ryan has done since I first bought his patterns (I bought the download and not the disc), not that it's a bad thing as he was was very gracious in adding some patterns that I requested, but his constant revisions - particularly early on - highlights just why the S&M UHD has taken so long...and it's not over yet. I NEEDS that DV disc Stacey!

My DV epiphany comment was directed at you. In your case, only one of the three versions will do anything. Actually, all three will behave identical in LL mode.

When we get to the point where we can generate some encoded DV files, we will contact you to test them. If you have an OPPO, you can use a HDD otherwise you will need to burn to a BD-R. Once you receive the current disc, let me know which ones you would like to see in DV first.

[Geoff D]

Muchas gracias Señor Spears. I do indeed have an OPPO and I'd love to be one of your guinea pigs.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

No, I am still very much a front projector type person ....

they have their benefits -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H35y...dToSg#t=27m38s

[Geoff D]

Any chance you can do greyscale ramps in MEL and FEL Stacey? Might be a good test of how the gradations of 10-bit upsampled MEL DV and 'native' 12-bit FEL DV compare on any given TV.

[David M]

I'm curious to see what the EL will look like for a 12-bit gradient ramp. I imagine the usual gray screen with little fuzzy-edged columns spaced horizontally.

[Scenic Labs]

Just a note for those looking for retailers in their countries as of the last edit:

USA: www.amazon.com, www.valueelectronics.com, www.biaslighting.com

Canada: www.Amazon.ca should be online by Monday, 1 July as well as www.BiasLighting.ca out of Alberta.

France: www.Amazon.fr and www.av-in.fr next week. for~ €45.

Japan: http://www.edipit.co.jp and also www.Amazon.jp later next week

China: www.taobao.com and also http://www.Biaslighting.com. Chinese shipping is active now, as I've already had several requests. We warehouse all of our MediaLights for the global market in Hong Kong and Shenzhen and I already DHLed the discs there. $3 shipping. Very reasonable.

Nordics: https://www.medlyd.dk. We'll post more direct links when they become available.

Germany: http://www.FF.de, http://www.Oppodigital.de (redirects to UK) and www.Amazon.de

United Kingdom: http://.www.BiasLighting.co.uk and http://www.Amazon.co.uk, with more coming.

Australia: www.BiasLighting.com.au and more to come

Please feel free to contact me if you find any pricing irregularities or service issues. We hold our partners to a high standard and they can rely on support from Scenic Labs. As documentation becomes available, we will translate it for local markets.

[rickardl]

Originally Posted by Scenic Labs

For those who were concerned about pricing on Amazon UK, I've confirmed that units are being processed and should appear online imminently and are eligible for Prime.

Final price is about £40.50, which tracks the price Euro price of €45.

pretty close! £40.45. Order placed.

[Scenic Labs]

That's why when I saw people worried about the price of importing it from Amazon.de to UK, I advised to wait a few days. Doesn't Amazon Prime offer next day service in virtually all of the UK?

Incidentally, same day delivery is coming to the USA. That's crazy!

Originally Posted by rickardl

pretty close! £40.45. Order placed.

[ShaneMario]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

they have their benefits -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H35y...dToSg#t=27m38s

That study Dolby's Suzanne Farrell (the presenter) is talking about and showed a picture of was done in the theater I run here in Dolby. It was done on with a Christie 4230. Her and I set that darned high-gain screen up several times over the course of that year...fun looking back, but pinched my hands several times!

The results of that study have driven many a conversation about nit preferences and quieted many folks who claim HDR is too bright. I was one of the participants...seems I'm pulled into every study here. I think they like breaking the averages...I may have a promising career as a HVS guinea pig. Now if I could only figure out how to get paid for it.

[JustinZed]

Is this new disc the only one needed to calibrate/improve a setup, or do I also need the HD 2nd edition disc for SDR calibration?

[Mobe1969]

Originally Posted by JustinZed

Is this new disc the only one needed to calibrate/improve a setup, or do I also need the HD 2nd edition disc for SDR calibration?

There is see bt709 test stuff, but no 3D.

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by JustinZed

Is this new disc the only one needed to calibrate/improve a setup, or do I also need the HD 2nd edition disc for SDR calibration?

If your display is 3D and / or 1080p, I would recommend the 2nd edition. We would loved to have supported 3D on UHD, but it is not part of the standard.

[Scorsese]

Would this disc improve mid-tier LEDs like the LG SJ models or is it just for OLEDs and high-end LED displays? Sorry for the stupid question

[jibucha]

answer :: without a question/reservation (all displays)
LG SJ (Nano Cell) - - - definitely (actually a remarkable display)

Originally Posted by Scorsese

Would this disc improve mid-tier LEDs like the LG SJ models or is it just for OLEDs and high-end LED displays? Sorry for the stupid question

[austinJerry]

I have just received my disk! I will be using the disk on a setup that consists of a Sony XBR75Z9F, a Marantz 8802a (with all video processing turned off), and an Oppo UDP203. Given the various video output settings on the Oppo, can someone recommend the proper settings when using the S&M disk?

My current settings are:

- HDR Auto
- Target luminance 300nits
- DV processing Auto
- Output resolution Custom
- Custom resolution UHD Auto
- Color space Auto
- Color depth Auto

Thanks!

[ROSS.T.G.]

Oof, just checked Amazon.ca. $64, I paid $25 for the 2nd addition.

$65 for the disc.
$400 for a new meter
$220 to upgrade my CalMan.

I think I paid $400 after taxes for my first meter and CalMan basic.

[monroef]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

Not for a while. We are looking at USB stick for 8K for an add-on project next year.

Streaming is trickier. Amazon has expressed interest in the past. Problem is putting up patterns with no animated instructions might not work so well.

Apple TV would probably be the most difficult to get on to.

With your last disc, I saved the disc to an ISO and used MrMC to play it on my Apple TV. Not sure if this method is influences any of the patterns though.