British Film Institute (BFI) Discussion Thread

[LordSummerIsle]

I'm surprise more people don't discuss The Adventures of Prince Achmed. That's a very important release. It's the first animated film.

[Fnord Prefect]

Originally Posted by tenia

The Crying Game is now down to £10.99 on Amazon.

Which of course means it's now£10:99 postpaid at HMV.com.

[OceanBlue]

Fnord Prefect, many thanks for your informative post and helpful reply.

[DavidGallow]

Originally Posted by scwilli1

I'm surprise more people don't discuss The Adventures of Prince Achmed. That's a very important release. It's the first animated film.

No, it isn't. It's not even the first animated feature length film.

[MichaelB]

Yes, Émile Cohl and Władysław Starewicz might have a thing or two to say about that claim. If they somehow came back to life and read this thread, anyway.

[Fnord Prefect]

Originally Posted by OceanBlue

Fnord Prefect, many thanks for your informative post and helpful reply.

Thank you. It read back like a load of pointless waffle and I was immediately embarrassed by it.

[Fnord Prefect]

Originally Posted by DavidGallow

No, it isn't. It's not even the first animated feature length film.

Yeah, not as if Prince Achmed is the earliest surviving feature length animation, one of the few (only one?) made using cut out "shadow" puppets against an illuminated background, used what is believed to be the first multi-plain animation camera or featured contributions from other filmmakers/animators who went on to varying degrees of prominence and influence in 20's and 30's European cinema.

Maybe "very important" is stretching it but it's certainly of strong historical interest and a lot more entertaining to modern audiences than the material on Reiniger's other BFI release.

[DavidGallow]

Originally Posted by Fnord Prefect

Yeah, not as if Prince Achmed is the earliest surviving feature length animation, one of the few (only one?) made using cut out "shadow" puppets against an illuminated background, used what is believed to be the first multi-plain animation camera or featured contributions from other filmmakers/animators who went on to varying degrees of prominence and influence in 20's and 30's European cinema.

Maybe "very important" is stretching it but it's certainly of strong historical interest and a lot more entertaining to modern audiences than the material on Reiniger's other BFI release.

Listen, you patronising fool - none of that makes it the first animated film which is the point I responded to. As Mr Brooke says there were pioneers before that both in shorts and in feature length animation. Prove that wrong or shut up as you've contradicted nothing.

[MichaelB]

Just to be clear, neither of us is contesting the importance of Lotte Reiniger or her film, both being colossal. But claiming that Prince Achmed is "the first animated film" is not only untrue, but it implicitly erases the work of her distinguished predecessors in ways that I imagine Reiniger herself would never have gone along with.

Ironically, if things had panned out as intended the BFI would also have released a Starewicz collection, which I'd pitched to them as a successor to the Quay Brothers and Jan Švankmajer sets. But it sadly fell apart for reasons completely beyond my control.

[gouryella]

Originally Posted by DavidGallow

Listen, you patronising fool - none of that makes it the first animated film which is the point I responded to

"That's a very important release. It's the first animated film."
"No, it isn't. It's not even the first animated feature length film."

Why would you say "no, it isn't. It's not even....." if you were just replying to the first animated film point? So you're saying "no it isn't" the first animated film and "it's not even" the first animated film? Reading your comment doesn't make sense unless the "no it isn't" is referring to the very important release part.

[Knaldskalle]

Originally Posted by gouryella

"That's a very important release. It's the first animated film."
"No, it isn't. It's not even the first animated feature length film."

Why would you say "no, it isn't. It's not even....." if you were just replying to the first animated film point? So you're saying "no it isn't" the first animated film and "it's not even" the first animated film? Reading your comment doesn't make sense unless the "no it isn't" is referring to the very important release part.

You may need to re-read it once again. There's a difference between "first animated film" and "first animated feature length film."

The first animated feature length film is generally considered to be El Apostol (1917, 70 mins), while the first animated film is older than that but it's a little more blurry what counts. According to Wikipedia, "Enchanted Drawing" from 1900 (2 mins) is the first to use animated elements, while "Humorous Phases of Funny Faces" from 1906 (3 mins) is the first entirely animated film.

And in one of those twists of fate, I'm currently awaiting the arrival of The Adventures of Prince Achmed from the UK, I ordered it last week. A thoroughly enjoyable movie and I'm looking forward to showing it to the kids.

[MichaelB]

There are loads of surviving animated films from the 1910s - I curated a presentation of British examples at an animation festival a few years ago. And Władysław Starewicz, who I'd consider the first indisputably world-class animator, was active from circa 1910 onwards.

[gouryella]

Originally Posted by Knaldskalle

You may need to re-read it once again. There's a difference between "first animated film" and "first animated feature length film."

The first animated feature length film is generally considered to be El Apostol (1917, 70 mins), while the first animated film is older than that but it's a little more blurry what counts. According to Wikipedia, "Enchanted Drawing" from 1900 (2 mins) is the first to use animated elements, while "Humorous Phases of Funny Faces" from 1906 (3 mins) is the first entirely animated film.

And in one of those twists of fate, I'm currently awaiting the arrival of The Adventures of Prince Achmed from the UK, I ordered it last week. A thoroughly enjoyable movie and I'm looking forward to showing it to the kids.

Thanks for pointing that out. I now retract that it doesn't make sense. However I will say it still could be read as basically "no it's not important and it's not even the first animated feature length film". Semantics

I thought I had Prince Achmed but as I don't I am now spurred on to get it. Wish I got the The Quay Brothers one when it was £10.99 but dallied to long.

[Knaldskalle]

Originally Posted by MichaelB

There are loads of surviving animated films from the 1910s - I curated a presentation of British examples at an animation festival a few years ago. And Władysław Starewicz, who I'd consider the first indisputably world-class animator, was active from circa 1910 onwards.

Revenge of a Kinematograph Cameraman (aka. A Cameraman's Revenge, 1912) is an outstanding little animated film - and done as stop-motion with dead insects! A far cry from Snow White. Personally, I thought Tale of the Fox (1930) was a bit on the tedious side, but I love his early work. The Frogs Who Wanted a King (1922) is wickedly funny. It's too bad your proposed project didn't come together.

[Fnord Prefect]

Originally Posted by DavidGallow

Listen, you patronising fool - none of that makes it the first animated film which is the point I responded to. As Mr Brooke says there were pioneers before that both in shorts and in feature length animation. Prove that wrong or shut up as you've contradicted nothing.

Listen you patronising fool (I'd add aggressive as well as you have a habit of being both) - I never said it was the first animated film.

Anyhow, your post read as if you were contesting the movie's historical importance then pointing out that it wasn't the first feature length animation.

Not interested in debating this.

[rapta]

Trailer for Manila in the Claws of Light:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=27qwaj9143Q

Looking forward to this but will now clash with Indicator's Fat City and The Big Heat. I will have to pick it up sometime this year though, in case it sells out (no idea how many it's limited to).

There's also a clip from The Glass Shield:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ofp11S2Mtqs

Master turned out to be pretty good in the end then!

[Knaldskalle]

Originally Posted by rapta

Trailer for Manila in the Claws of Light:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=27qwaj9143Q

Looking forward to this but will now clash with Indicator's Fat City and The Big Heat. I will have to pick it up sometime this year though, in case it sells out (no idea how many it's limited to).

I'm kinda glad I don't have to make that choice, they're all three good movies. Personally, I'd pick The Big Heat, Fat City and Manila in that order. The Big Heat is obviously a classic, Fat City has that... something that makes it a great but depressing movie and Manila is a good-but-not-great thriller from the Philippines, which in itself makes it interesting. There's a lot of back story to it and to Lino Brocka and his relationship with the Marcos dictatorship.

[rapta]

Originally Posted by Knaldskalle

I'm kinda glad I don't have to make that choice, they're all three good movies. Personally, I'd pick The Big Heat, Fat City and Manila in that order. The Big Heat is obviously a classic, Fat City has that... something that makes it a great but depressing movie and Manila is a good-but-not-great thriller from the Philippines, which in itself makes it interesting. There's a lot of back story to it and to Lino Brocka and his relationship with the Marcos dictatorship.

Yeah that's the order I have them in right now, though perhaps Fat City slightly about The Big Heat personally (but I'll probably get them together). Hoping the Brocka double-bill comes down in price a bit. £34.99 seems to be the RRP, so it may only be £20-25 on release which is a little easier to swallow. No idea how they'll package the discs together but fingers crossed they go for plastic cases rather than digipacks.

[rapta]

Beaver on The Crying Game: http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film6/blu-r...me_blu-ray.htm

Looks good, but sounds like there might be an issue with the Making Of doc? No idea what they mean by that though...does it just not play?

[SilverBlueSnow]

I must say that I am very surprised that Rossellini War Trilogy and Dreyer Box Sets have not sold out yet - 3000 and 4000 units respectively. They are such milestones in the history of cinema! I pre-ordered them thinking they might sell out very quickly! It says a lot about the present day Bluray market!

BFI publishing is doing such a great job these days - stellar box sets (Rossellini, Rossellini Bergman, Herzog, Preminger Noir, Dreyer, Alan Clarke etc) and such great diversity in their other releases.

Any murmerings about a BFI Naruse Bluray set?