British Film Institute (BFI) Discussion Thread

[RossyG]

I’d be amazed if Bergman had any idea that PAL speed up existed. Like those film makers in this country who transitioned to 35mm TV shows like The Saint and Gideon’s Way, he’d have shot in 24fps and thought no more about it.

[oddbox83]

Yeah, if it's made at 24fps, then just because a TV cut may have been seen with PAL speedup doesn't mean that's how it should be seen.

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by sjt

Well it most certainly ought to, since that is how it was originally broadcast in (PAL, 50Hz territory) Sweden, though it is possible that it was actually shot at 24 since it was filmed on 35mm stock on equipment that may not have had a 25 fps option. Criterion's edition is of course predicated on a transfer for the USA (NTSC, 60 Hz territory) achieved on a telecine in an incredibly incomprehensible process called 2: 3 pulldown which effectively stretches every four frames of 24 fps film into five frames of video but doesn't impact on running time (it's all to do with the technical differences between their electricity's cycle and ours, and the different vertical number of lines between the TV broadcast systems which result).

I'm now going to lie down for a bit.....

You're overcomplicating things. 3:2 pulldown is very simple. It doesn't stretch or anything, merely repeats a set sequence of frames to convert 24fps film to 60hz video without speed change. 3:2 pulldown is only relevant to 60hz video. In 24p, slowing 25p to 24p is just that, a slow down. No pulldown or stretching.

[Akibiyori]

A point of comparison here - Even though the miniseries version is the primary version, it was known that Fanny & Alexander was also going to be a theatrical release, which is why 24 FPS is the correct frame rate. On the other hand, Fassbinder’s Berlin Alexanderplatz was made solely for TV, only later being shown theatrically, so it was always just 25 FPS (and Criterion handled Berlin Alexanderplatz differently on DVD and Blu-ray respectively - the master for DVD was slowed down to 24 FPS and then the conventional NTSC pulldown was performed like any other film they released on DVD but their Blu-ray edition used a different method to keep the 25 FPS speed through interpolation.)

[GaryCouzens]

The Bergman television/cinema production I had a query with was The Magic Flute. The BFI's Blu-ray is 24fps, the DVD (according to the press release as I only had the Blu as a review copy) is apparently 25fps.

Which speed is correct? The film was shot on 16mm for television showing and had cinema releases abroad. In the UK it premiered on BBC2 on 26.12.75. Both the UK and Sweden are PAL countries, so I'd expect 25fps to be correct, and any showing at 24fps to be slowed down, putting the music out of key by (I think) half a semitone? Granted, I don't have perfect pitch and I can't tell PAL speed-up unless you played a non-speed-up and speeded-up version side by side. So, is the BFI's Blu-ray playing at the wrong speed? I don't know. Given that it's a film of an opera, was the first TV movie made with a stereo soundtrack and BBC2's broadcast was simulcast with Radio 3, this sort of thing is more than usually significant.

[oddbox83]

The DVD would be 25fps regardless of if that's original speed or not, as the BFI always release PAL format DVDs.

Now the BFI do have precedent for releasing slowed-down material (Schalcken the Painter being one example, made for BBC TV but slowed to 24p for the BD), but in more recent years they've accepted some material should be presented at 25p/50i, for example Nineteen Eighty-Four.

[rapta]

BFI titles in the 2 for £15 offer at HMV. Most were cheap on Rarewaves recently but some are actually cheaper through this offer (e.g. Truffaut's The Last Metro and The Soft Skin). Might get a couple in store to secure booklets...

Also in the offer are Premium Collection titles, if anyone missed any in the last offer.

[CavebobSpongeman]

Originally Posted by rapta

BFI titles in the 2 for £15 offer at HMV. Most were cheap on Rarewaves recently but some are actually cheaper through this offer (e.g. Truffaut's The Last Metro and The Soft Skin). Might get a couple in store to secure booklets...

Also in the offer are Premium Collection titles, if anyone missed any in the last offer.

Thanks for the heads up. Was just about to say that I was disappointed that Naked is in an offer so early until I saw that it came out nearly a year ago. Where did the time go? I'll be picking up The Hidden. I mean it's cool to see it in 35mm but seeing it in HD finally will be awesome.

[magnetiques]

hopefully fopp has these offers, i'm going down there next week

[CavebobSpongeman]

Originally Posted by magnetiques

hopefully fopp has these offers, i'm going down there next week

I don't see why they wouldn't.

[manicsounds]

Very unfortunate news, but the BFI said that their 4K release of "Watership Down" has been cancelled. "Circumstances beyond control" as they said.

[rapta]

Originally Posted by manicsounds

Very unfortunate news, but the BFI said that their 4K release of "Watership Down" has been cancelled. "Circumstances beyond control" as they said.

Oh that’s crap, was really looking forward to getting it (only didn’t immediately preorder as it was UHD, but would’ve definitely got it either way). Guessing someone blocked it, in a similar way to Indicator with Ishtar? Looks like the release was pretty much ready to go so that really sucks. A great film and one of those ones I encourage people to watch if they haven’t seen it (especially parents with kids of a certain age).

[trobrianders]

Originally Posted by manicsounds

Very unfortunate news, but the BFI said that their 4K release of "Watership Down" has been cancelled. "Circumstances beyond control" as they said.

I wasn't intending to upgrade from the Criterion but that's unfortunate yes. Wasn't a fan of the kitsch artwork though.

Has anyone compared BFI's The Last Metro blu with Criterion's great blu of of it and Artificial Eye's overly bright blu of it?

[drush9999]

I might have bought a standard release down the line, happy with the Criterion release though.

[manicsounds]

Originally Posted by trobrianders

Has anyone compared BFI's The Last Metro blu with Criterion's great blu of of it and Artificial Eye's overly bright blu of it?

No screenshots, but mentions of how different the newer transfer looks compared to the Criterion and AE.
http://www.dvdcompare.net/review.php?rid=7058

[Sifox211]

Originally Posted by manicsounds

Very unfortunate news, but the BFI said that their 4K release of "Watership Down" has been cancelled. "Circumstances beyond control" as they said.

That's disappointing... especially as I already sold my UK BD of it

[ricky_dicky]

With Watership Down cancelled and only 3 releases announced this quarter (one of which is also included in a set), the BFI release schedule is starting to look rather bare for the foreseeable future.

[trobrianders]

Originally Posted by manicsounds

No screenshots, but mentions of how different the newer transfer looks compared to the Criterion and AE.
http://www.dvdcompare.net/review.php?rid=7058

Thanks. The change in colour was unrxpected but now I'm keen to see it.

[CelestialAgent]

Originally Posted by Sifox211

That's disappointing... especially as I already sold my UK BD of it

I try not to sell discs until the release comes out, as so often there are dropped extras or faults with the new release (some of the recent Paramount titles with DNR or contentious StudioCanal grades). Made that mistake with Candyman and Total Recall, and glad I held onto Saturday Night Fever (only theatrical cut on 4K), Creature from the Black Lagoon (4K release doesn’t include 3D version or sequels), Dune (TV cut), To Catch a Thief, The Trial, The Howling, Mulholland Drive, The Trial of Joan of Arc. Thankfully I don’t think I’ve been caught out on cancelled releases yet. Of course you might get more if you sell earlier on than having lots of people selling for peanuts the day the new release comes out.

[randian]

Originally Posted by CelestialAgent

glad I held onto Saturday Night Fever (only theatrical cut on 4K)

The review here of Saturday Night Fever 4k is pretty harsh. Amusingly, the summary doesn't match the actual review: I wouldn't call a 3/5 video rating "delivers great video".