British Film Institute (BFI) Discussion Thread

[fatboyslim142]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

The Outcasts (1982) (BFI Flipside #49)

https://shop.bfi.org.uk/the-outcasts...9-blu-ray.html

Odd to see an Irish film being included in a series dedicated to UK films.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by fatboyslim142

Odd to see an Irish film being included in a series dedicated to UK films.

It appears they've updated the description of the imprint to say British and Irish films:

BFI Flipside is dedicated to rediscovering the margins of British and Irish film, reclaiming a space for forgotten movies and filmmakers who would otherwise be in danger of disappearing from our screens forever. It is a home for cinematic oddities, offering everything from exploitation documentaries to B-movies, countercultural curios and obscure classics.

If it's weird, and forgotten, then it's Flipside.

[Cinematt]

Originally Posted by CelestialAgent

Only thing missing from the Criterion is a documentary and Stephen Prince commentary.

BFI

Extras
Restored in 4K and presented in High Definition (2-disc limited edition)

Introduction by Alex Cox (2003, 15 mins)

Newly commissioned audio commentary by film critic Adrian Martin

Akira Kurosawa: It Is Wonderful to Create – Ikiru (2003, 42 mins): created as part of the Toho Masterworks series and featuring interviews with Kurosawa, script supervisor Teruyo Nogami, writer Hideo Oguni, actor Takashi Shimura, and others

It's Ours Whatever They Say (1972, 39 mins): a community action film telling of the battle fought by young mothers against Islington council to establish a playground for children on a derelict site

The People People (1970, 22 mins): intended for school leavers, this COI film shows the vast range and variety of jobs available within the Civil Service, highlighting the ways in which civil servants help individuals, the community in general and Parliament

**FIRST PRESSING ONLY** Includes slipcase and illustrated booklet with a new essay on the film by Tony Rayns
Other extras TBC

Criterion

BLU-RAY SPECIAL EDITION FEATURES

New, restored 4K digital transfer, with uncompressed monaural soundtrack

Audio commentary from 2003 by Stephen Prince, author of The Warrior’s Camera: The Cinema of Akira Kurosawa

A Message from Akira Kurosawa: For Beautiful Movies (2000), a ninety*-minute documentary produced by Kurosawa Productions and featuring interviews with the director

Documentary on Ikiru from 2003, created as part of the Toho Masterworks series Akira Kurosawa: It Is Wonderful to Create, and featuring interviews with Kurosawa, script supervisor Teruyo Nogami, writer Hideo Oguni, actor Takashi Shimura, and others

Trailer

New English subtitle translation

PLUS: An essay by critic and travel writer Pico Iyer and a reprint from critic Donald Richie’s 1965 book The Films of Akira Kurosawa

Or to put it another way, the only thing that's the same on the discs is one documentary.

The 4K restoration will be the same on both of them, the negative is lost so the same restoration has been used for the Japanese BD and the newer Japanese UHD, as well s the Criterion BD, so I'm sure this will be the same source. Criterion crams a 90 minute doc and a 43 minute doc all onto the same disc as the 143 minute movie though, so the BFI could well benefit nicely from giving the movie space to breathe.

There was some speculation elsewhere on the forums that Criterion might finally be gearing up for 4K Kurosawa as Janus are screening the 4K Seven Samurai restoration soon. It is possible that the BFI and Criterion are benefitting from Toho finally playing nice now they have a bunch of their own 4K discs out in Japan and we'll see plenty more from both of them, but this was long overdue a UK release in some form. I think I'll pick it up for the extras, and maybe upgrade my Criterion if they do go 4K. Because of the lost negative on this one the difference with the Japanese 4K over the Criterion BD is 'just' resolution, they seem otherwise identical, so it's not the worst 4K to miss out on.

[MifuneFan]

The two 1970's British shorts included with the BFI release feel so incredibly random to me. Sort of thrown in to pad the extras kind of thing.

[CelestialAgent]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

The two 1970's British shorts included with the BFI release feel so incredibly random to me. Sort of thrown in to pad the extras kind of thing.

That’s been the case for some time now with BFI, better to include than not when it will probably never get an individual collection and otherwise be confined to BFI Player (geoblocked).

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

It appears they've updated the description of the imprint to say British and Irish films:

Wynne-Simmons is British and it screened on C4 at least.

[Ben_C]

Shame Ikiru isn’t a 4K release.

[CelestialAgent]

Originally Posted by Ben_C

Shame Ikiru isn’t a 4K release.

Ben defended it not being 4K in Facebook comments, I would guess it comes down to the amount of appreciable difference in detail in 4K vs. 2K, projected sales figures and being an SDR master. Obviously BFI aren’t against B&W UHDs if classics (The Wages of Fear, The Seventh Seal). Unless Criterion have exclusivity on international UHD rights it’s probably down to the quality of the master, which seems imperfect. I’ve seen some reviews claim The Rules of the Game looks better on the BFI BD.

nicwood’s review here:

Originally Posted by nicwood

As both Ikiru and Stray Dog are limited by the lack of original elements, these UHD’s are not that easy to assess.

[…] Ikiru looks surprisingly solid in that regard with some shots exhibiting beautiful detail but still nothing as a crisp OCN scan. I wouldn’t count this as a disappointment as there is nothing anybody can do against it. Audio is similar - I have no idea about the source and things like noise reduction.

However I think that Toho dropped the ball a bit when it comes to the authoring. Encoding isn’t optimal, exhibiting clipped highlights and likely a light grain scrub on top.

Don’t get me wrong, these look the best they ever have but there is potential for more. BFI could do great work but we don’t know if the filtering is baked into the master. Encoding would surely be optimized better. Both films use a BD-66 and use only around 55 GB each with no significant extras taking up the space.

[…] These are certainly very watchable masters, far from horrendous but still falling short of optimal.

Screenshots

Originally Posted by nicwood

Screenshots for Ikiru and Stray Dog. Both are inevitably affected by their lack of low-generation material - particularly Stray Dog.

[nicwood]

Originally Posted by CelestialAgent

Ben defended it not being 4K in Facebook comments, I would guess it comes down to the amount of appreciable difference in detail in 4K vs. 2K, projected sales figures and being an SDR master. Obviously BFI aren’t against B&W UHDs if classics (The Wages of Fear, The Seventh Seal). Unless Criterion have exclusivity on international UHD rights it’s probably down to the quality of the master, which seems imperfect. I’ve seen some reviews claim The Rules of the Game looks better on the BFI BD.

Thank you Celestial for posting my review of the UHD. Based on how the Toho disc looks, I immediately understood why BFI wouldn’t release a UHD. A well-encoded BD of the new master should still be a significant improvement over the Criterion and the new extras sound superb as well.

[Dogwood]

Quite happy with Ikiru on BD, a genuine big-hitter finally upgraded. I hope a lot people aren't put off by the lack of 4K, particularly after the comments on context above. Great job with the cover art on this one, too.

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by fatboyslim142

Odd to see an Irish film being included in a series dedicated to UK films.

Not without precedent. Deep End was shot mainly in Munich despite being very British in feel.
Since the UK incorporates Northern Ireland, it's not so much of a stretch.

I do feel the Flipside has already lost it's specific focus for quite a few years now, but that's not films like The Outcasts which despite being Irish, definitely fits in other ways.

[TB Trev]

I've never heard of The Outcasts, it looks very interesting and it's by Robert Wynne-Simmons (Blood On Satan's Claw), who is very much still with us. Are there any clips of The Outcasts online? I couldn't find anything on YouTube.

[fatboyslim142]

Originally Posted by oddbox83

Not without precedent. Deep End was shot mainly in Munich despite being very British in feel.
Since the UK incorporates Northern Ireland, it's not so much of a stretch.

I do feel the Flipside has already lost it's specific focus for quite a few years now, but that's not films like The Outcasts which despite being Irish, definitely fits in other ways.

The Skolimowski film was a co-production between the UK & Germany which probably explains why it was mostly shot in Germany with Soho & Leytonstone being used for some exterior scenes.

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by TB Trev

I've never heard of The Outcasts, it looks very interesting and it's by Robert Wynne-Simmons (Blood On Satan's Claw), who is very much still with us. Are there any clips of The Outcasts online? I couldn't find anything on YouTube.

That's why it's like a proper Flipside in spite of any question about how British it is. It's like really interesting to us now we hear of it but almost totally unknown prior to this announcement.

[bleedandtrim]

Looks like Deaf Crocodile in the US are releasing The Outcasts too as announced in their newsletter today, but with a better slew of extras (keeping in mind the BFI's list is TBC). Here's the list so far and what they had to say about it;

"The recent BFI announcement forced our hand here. We weren’t going to announce this for awhile, but we didn’t want folks unnecessarily double-dipping!"

"Below is what we can announce for now. Gorgeous new artwork is being worked on and we’re hoping we may be able to get a one or two more extras for you all as well."

• New video interview with director Robert Wynne-Simmons
  
• New Commentary by producer and professor Rod Stoneman, former head of the Irish Film Board and former Director of the Huston Film School at the National University of Ireland, Galway
  
• New Essay by Paul Duane (deluxe edition exclusive)
  
• New Essay by Walter Chaw (deluxe edition exclusive)
  
• Rare early short films by Robert Wynne-Simmons including: “The Judgement Of Albion – Prophesies of William Blake”, “The Scroll”, “L’Eredita di Diavolo”, “The Greatest All Star Advertial Of All Time” (featuring Charlton Heston, Michael Redgrave, Brian Rix, and Peter O'Toole) and “Bomb Disposal” (featuring a cameo by Sammy Davis Jr.)

Sounds like it might be a 2-disc affair with the deluxe edition exclusive essays (and maybe the shorts?) on the bonus disc, perhaps?

[oddbox83]

Originally Posted by bleedandtrim

Looks like Deaf Crocodile in the US are releasing The Outcasts too as announced in their newsletter today, but with a better slew of extras (keeping in mind the BFI's list is TBC).

So you can't say better at all just yet.

The thing we know about BFI stuff is there's always extras of note. Might be the same, might be different. The BFI have been known to closely collaborate with US labels.

My gut instinct here tells me they're likely going to look very similar if not identical in the final specs. I may be wrong, but that looks like a very BFI set of extras.

[darrellmaclaine]

Finally received my copy of the much-delayed Meet John Doe Blu-ray from ClassicFlix, and noticed there are BFI logos on the sleeve indicating co-operation/funding. Wondering if they'll bring it out here themselves as part of their occasional line of PD perennials, or not bother because it's region free.

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

The two 1970's British shorts included with the BFI release feel so incredibly random to me. Sort of thrown in to pad the extras kind of thing.

I don't know. They seem more thematically relevant and nice to watch in a row than yet another featurette/docu directly on the film/director. It's not like we haven't previously heard/read anything about Ikiru.

[shimmy]

Originally Posted by dwk

criterion will almost 100% put Ikiru out on UHD here in the US, it is just a question of when. Kurosawa is big for them.

People say this and other things about Criterion which havent been true for years. Apart from upgrading Dreams to UHD and releasing Kagemusha in region B they havent done anything with their Kurosawa licences recently. A lot of his great films havent even left DVD jail yet. I too would like to believe the quiet before the storm theory and that a nice big UHD boxset is just around the corner, which will have great transfers and encodes and hell maybe even the packaging wont be complete ass. Realistically though I think BFI making a move is more exciting than wishful thinking from Criterion because it might suggest that its the first in a series of releases just like they have been doing with Ozu. Floating Clouds is also releasing soon which makes it look like BFI have entered a Japanese phase.

[exidor]

Originally Posted by bleedandtrim

Sounds like it might be a 2-disc affair with the deluxe edition exclusive essays (and maybe the shorts?) on the bonus disc, perhaps?

The essays will be in a booklet. That's how it normally works.

[Cinematt]

Originally Posted by shimmy

People say this and other things about Criterion which havent been true for years. Apart from upgrading Dreams to UHD and releasing Kagemusha in region B they havent done anything with their Kurosawa licences recently. A lot of his great films havent even left DVD jail yet. I too would like to believe the quiet before the storm theory and that a nice big UHD boxset is just around the corner, which will have great transfers and encodes and hell maybe even the packaging wont be complete ass. Realistically though I think BFI making a move is more exciting than wishful thinking from Criterion because it might suggest that its the first in a series of releases just like they have been doing with Ozu. Floating Clouds is also releasing soon which makes it look like BFI have entered a Japanese phase.

And not just a Japanese phase, a Toho phase. Most other labels either won't bother or can't get near Toho licences, Radiance said it was the only Japanese studio they hadn't been able to get a deal with and they've certainly been trying. Given the wealth of heavy hitters from Japan's golden age that Toho are sitting on it's tremendous that the BFI are breaking them out.
And at the very least I expect we'll see High and Low soon, given they've never been able to get that off DVD before and the remake is coming it's primed to be a great seller, and it has a really good 4K master already.