British Film Institute (BFI) Discussion Thread

[shimmy]

Originally Posted by Deadend45

I was interested in the Kurosawa sale mentioned in the BFI email today until I saw it was the old scans only and lost any interest.

Yeah, looks like they are trying to get rid of those old dvd's but they are still too expensive. They should be practically giving them away at this point.

[Glenn_C]

Originally Posted by rebbirds

Any news about their work on Eille Norwood's Sherlock Holmes?

I've been wondering what's happening with this too .

[CelestialAgent]

Originally Posted by Glenn_C

I've been wondering what's happening with this too .

LFF and BFI National Archive does not automatically guarantee a disc, especially when there are so many episodes. If it happens it might not be for a few more years given the scope of it.

[knuckles96]

Would love to see some more Bresson this year

[nicwood]

I’ve got the new BD releases of Stray Dog and High and Low today and compared them with the Toho 4Ks.

Stray Dog is practically identical due to the battered nature of the film element Toho used for the transfer as the original negative is long gone. The film would’ve looked better had they refrained from using grain management. It’s what it is and unless Criterion does another surprising round of cleanup as well as restoring some of the grain, this is the best we get. Sound on the BFI is as dead and devoid of detail as on the Toho. Unlike their Seven Samurai 4K, subtitles have full stops included.

As we’ve stated multiple times since BFI’s announcement, High and Low should’ve been made available in 4K and a brief comparison between the two reaffirmed my opinion. The BFI BD is solid, no question about it, but this master has more to offer texturally which the BD can’t resolve. In 4K, grain is finer and more detailed together with the extra image depth and Toho’s encoding is also (as expected) superior than what White Label did for BFI. It’s not a bad encode and looks pleasing in motion but the variations in grain density doesn’t always do the encode favors, such as in scene transitions when the first couple of frames are very blocky. In 4K, that wouldn’t have been a problem. Again, no big deal in motion.

Audio quality sounds very good to me. Both 4.0 surround (in a 5.1 container) and 2.0 stereo mixes are clear and detailed, much better than what Criterion offers on their BD. Still, BFI’s tracks are not identical with Toho’s, mixing-wise and the 4.0’s codec is also different (PCM 4.0). Toho’s 2.0 is very detailed too but louder and more "punchy" whereas the 4.0 is more subdued and spacious. On the BFI, it’s the opposite re. loudness. What this means for actual detail I can’t tell solely from hearing them but I’ll get these tracks to our forum’s audio specialists if Criterion announces a 4K. Subtitles are again with full stops.

In the meantime, these are two solid BDs. I bought them for the new extras first and foremost which we wouldn’t get from Criterion anyway but I dearly hope they’ll get around to High and Low at the very least.

[rebbirds]

Originally Posted by CelestialAgent

LFF and BFI National Archive does not automatically guarantee a disc, especially when there are so many episodes. If it happens it might not be for a few more years given the scope of it.

Yes but they announced the whole thing in 2021 and I was hoping to know something more now.

[Glenn_C]

Originally Posted by rebbirds

Yes but they announced the whole thing in 2021 and I was hoping to know something more now.

Hopefully it'll come along sooner rather than later . I was beyond excited when they announced the restoration a few years ago. I'm a lifelong Holmesian / silent cinema fan, so I've always been very intrigued by these and I've always wanted to see them. The clips shown of them on that recent Lucy Worsley / Conan Doyle doc on the BBC, were promising too.

If they have to release them relatively slowly, say in volumes, I'll take it. I just really want to see them & own them at some point .

Realistically speaking though, it's not 100% definite. I think the BFI had a hand in distributing or restoring the 1916 William Gillette film. I don't know that for certain but I think they were mentioned in the credits of that restoration. Along with the good folks at Hartswood Films etc. Again, I may be misremembering. But that hasn't had a physical media release in the UK either. Unfortunately.

And on the other hand, the last Sherlock Holmes release from the BFI was the Douglas Wilmer dvd set. And that was a while ago, yes but it was excellent and well worth the wait. So I really hope they do these!

And hopefully, an eventual blu-ray boxset of these has better odds of being released here, than the respective ones of the Basil Rathbone & Jeremy Brett versions that we've never got in the UK .

[rebbirds]

Well, Jeremy Brett was fantastic in the characterization of Holmes but when Sir Conan Doyle saw Eille Norwood's Holmes, he was very impressed so let's hope to see him.

[Nocheduro]

Originally Posted by nicwood

[Show spoiler]I’ve got the new BD releases of Stray Dog and High and Low today and compared them with the Toho 4Ks.

Stray Dog is practically identical due to the battered nature of the film element Toho used for the transfer as the original negative is long gone. The film would’ve looked better had they refrained from using grain management. It’s what it is and unless Criterion does another surprising round of cleanup as well as restoring some of the grain, this is the best we get. Sound on the BFI is as dead and devoid of detail as on the Toho. Unlike their Seven Samurai 4K, subtitles have full stops included.

As we’ve stated multiple times since BFI’s announcement, High and Low should’ve been made available in 4K and a brief comparison between the two reaffirmed my opinion. The BFI BD is solid, no question about it, but this master has more to offer texturally which the BD can’t resolve. In 4K, grain is finer and more detailed together with the extra image depth and Toho’s encoding is also (as expected) superior than what White Label did for BFI. It’s not a bad encode and looks pleasing in motion but the variations in grain density doesn’t always do the encode favors, such as in scene transitions when the first couple of frames are very blocky. In 4K, that wouldn’t have been a problem. Again, no big deal in motion.

Audio quality sounds very good to me. Both 4.0 surround (in a 5.1 container) and 2.0 stereo mixes are clear and detailed, much better than what Criterion offers on their BD. Still, BFI’s tracks are not identical with Toho’s, mixing-wise and the 4.0’s codec is also different (PCM 4.0). Toho’s 2.0 is very detailed too but louder and more "punchy" whereas the 4.0 is more subdued and spacious. On the BFI, it’s the opposite re. loudness. What this means for actual detail I can’t tell solely from hearing them but I’ll get these tracks to our forum’s audio specialists if Criterion announces a 4K. Subtitles are again with full stops.

In the meantime, these are two solid BDs. I bought them for the new extras first and foremost which we wouldn’t get from Criterion anyway but I dearly hope they’ll get around to High and Low at the very least.

I’m guessing the BFI High And Low is a nice upgrade from the existing Criterion BD due to the new master on the BFI?

[nicwood]

Originally Posted by Nocheduro

[/SPOILER]

I’m guessing the BFI High And Low is a nice upgrade from the existing Criterion BD due to the new master on the BFI?

It is but if you’re upgrading for image quality, I’d say wait a little longer if they put the film out in 4K.

[CelestialAgent]

Ben commented on the Facebook group that the two new Kurosawas are selling quite well, so would advise getting them before a sale if you want the first pressing with booklet.

[ghostof82]

The obvious issue likely negating the BFI ever releasing a 4K of High & Low in future is that sales would surely be impacted by buyers of the new Blu-ray not willing to buy it again, no matter the quality bump. We're not all swimming in disposable income.

[RossyG]

"We can't put all the Kurosawas out on 4K because they don't sell well enough but hurry up as they're actually flying off the shelves and now everyone has the blu-rays there's no point in releasing a 4K as it won't sell well enough now."

What a world!

[deadheadbill]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Finalized extras for the Chantal Akerman set are now up. It now says it's limited to 2,000 copies.

https://shop.bfi.org.uk/chantal-aker...y-box-set.html

I can't even imagine what a 3 1/2 hour commentary on Jeanne Dielman would be like.

[Cinematt]

Originally Posted by RossyG

"We can't put all the Kurosawas out on 4K because they don't sell well enough but hurry up as they're actually flying off the shelves and now everyone has the blu-rays there's no point in releasing a 4K as it won't sell well enough now."

What a world!

I've resigned myself to double dipping on a Criterion 4K in the future, as I'm sure many others will. I know the 4K market isn't massive, and I can understand there would have been some hesitation, but I assume the response to these has taken the BFI somewhat by surprise and they're regretting skipping High and Low in 4K.

[Sifox211]

Originally Posted by Cinematt

I've resigned myself to double dipping on a Criterion 4K in the future, as I'm sure many others will. I know the 4K market isn't massive, and I can understand there would have been some hesitation, but I assume the response to these has taken the BFI somewhat by surprise and they're regretting skipping High and Low in 4K.

I have the Criterion region A already, so what I think I will do is wait it out: if a 4K gets announced from BFI or Criterion I will go with that; otherwise I'll pick up the BFI BD when it's cheap (and bookletless).

[Grenseal]

Originally Posted by knuckles96

Would love to see some more Bresson this year

I would like to see LANCELOT DU LAC and THE DEVIL PROBABLY, but I'm considering getting the French releases, both have English subtitles and are in a buy 3 get one free offer

[rapta]

Originally Posted by CelestialAgent

Ben commented on the Facebook group that the two new Kurosawas are selling quite well, so would advise getting them before a sale if you want the first pressing with booklet.

And in slightly related news, I asked Ben if we might see more Toho titles soon, to which he replied "Stay tuned….". Great news whatever it turns out to be, as I think they've exhausted the new Kurosawa masters, so it's likely to be something else!

Originally Posted by Grenseal

I would like to see LANCELOT DU LAC and THE DEVIL PROBABLY, but I'm considering getting the French releases, both have English subtitles and are in a buy 3 get one free offer

Still hoping Radiance might release either/both of these, especially since they were trying to acquire another Bresson (Four Nights of a Dreamer) but were outbid (most likely by Criterion). Patience will tell!

[Cinematt]

Originally Posted by rapta

And in slightly related news, I asked Ben if we might see more Toho titles soon, to which he replied "Stay tuned….". Great news whatever it turns out to be, as I think they've exhausted the new Kurosawa masters, so it's likely to be something else!

The only other Kurosawa Toho released in their crop of 4K remasters was Kagemusha, which obviously we'd expect to go to Criterion, not least because it's a Fox title in the UK so even if someone else wanted to try and grab it they've got bigger problems than Toho to deal with.

They did bring us Floating Clouds from their Toho deal before they got stuck in to Kurosawa so perhaps we'll see more Naruse, but the options are pretty vast so who knows.

[SilverBlueSnow]

Originally Posted by Cinematt

The only other Kurosawa Toho released in their crop of 4K remasters was Kagemusha, which obviously we'd expect to go to Criterion, not least because it's a Fox title in the UK so even if someone else wanted to try and grab it they've got bigger problems than Toho to deal with.

They did bring us Floating Clouds from their Toho deal before they got stuck in to Kurosawa so perhaps we'll see more Naruse, but the options are pretty vast so who knows.

Do you know if any other Naruse titles have been restored by Toho?