British Film Institute (BFI) Discussion Thread

[nitin]

there does indeed look like different damage marks on the two, so yeah I would guess we are talking about different masters.

[Dan8700]

Originally Posted by tenia

That's quite fugly.
It looks like a very dated source (and of not a high quality) has been used for this, meaning that it looks as if the BFI is the older release and the Criterion the brand new one.

Very sad, indeed.

My God, AWFUL indeed! It's clearly from a different source. And obviously no grain at all. So glad I went for the Criterion...

[tenia]

Originally Posted by Lyris

I didn't work on this title and don't own either version, but from looking at the screen captures, it simply looks like Criterion did some unsharp mask processing to improve the apparent resolution (not a bad thing).

There are other differences too, though, so who knows.

It does seem, looking at caps, that the sources are widly different. I'm not sure a mask would be enough to explain the difference between the 2 discs.

[Mansinthe]

Originally Posted by Dan8700

My God, AWFUL indeed! It's clearly from a different source. And obviously no grain at all. So glad I went for the Criterion...

considering the bonus features and the book(let) you get with the criterion release there is no reason to go for the BFI release.
probably only if you are not region free. or are really a HUGE fan of Tony Rayns

[MifuneFan]

I'm interested in seeing the new 48 minute featurette, but that's about it. The transfer looks terrible. If the Steelbook hits bargain bin prices, I'd consider it, but otherwise, pass. It's too bad the Steel wasn't white, that would have been an incentive to consider it too.

[crazyman]

If you can't do it right, don't do it at all.

It's releases like this that hurt the brand.

Seven Samurai should be one of BFIs biggest sellers. Many people who have no loyalty to the BFI will buy it because they know the film. They won't be returning to BFI's bosom after they see the product.

[Mansinthe]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

I'm interested in seeing the new 48 minute featurette, but that's about it. The transfer looks terrible. If the Steelbook hits bargain bin prices, I'd consider it, but otherwise, pass. It's too bad the Steel wasn't white, that would have been an incentive to consider it too.

+1 the bonus feature is the only reason to think about this release.

but that the BFI (its the BFI not some noname label) does screw up a movie like SEVEN SAMURAI (even people that have no idea who akira kurosawa is know this movie, at least by name)

[Agermemnon]

Originally Posted by Mansinthe

+1 the bonus feature is the only reason to think about this release.

but that the BFI (its the BFI not some noname label) does screw up a movie like SEVEN SAMURAI (even people that have no idea who akira kurosawa is know this movie, at least by name)

I shudder to think what will happen to the other black and white samurai epics by Kurosawa, that's if they can be bothered after the very poor Seven Samurai release.

[EddieLarkin]

They sourced Seven Samurai from Toho rather than Criterion, so assuming they continue that practice, here's what to expect:

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...ID=877#auswahl

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...ID=878#auswahl

The only Kurosawa films I know of that got a better showing on Blu-ray from Toho were Yojimbo and Sanjuro (so release them next BFI!)

[MacEachaidh]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

They sourced Seven Samurai from Toho rather than Criterion

So where did Criterion source its transfer from?

[Funktion]

I wish the BFI would release Madadayo.
I would love to revisit the film on HD.

[EddieLarkin]

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

So where did Criterion source its transfer from?

Perhaps materials or raw scans were provided by Toho and Criterion did their own work?

[Agermemnon]

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

So where did Criterion source its transfer from?

From the blu-ray.com review

" The following text appears inside the booklet provided with this Blu-ray disc:

"The original negative of the film is no longer available, so a duplicate negative was created from the original fine-grain master positive using wetgate processing. This high-definition digital transfer was then created in 2K resolution on a Spirit Datacine from the dupe. For the extensive restoration of Seven Samurai, several different digital hardware and software solutions were utilized to address flicker, instability, dirt, scratches, and grain management, including da Vinci's Revival, Discreet Fire, Digital Vision's ASCIII Advanced Scratch and Dirt Concealer, MTI's DRS, and Pixel Farm's PFClean.

Telecine supervisor: Lee Kline.
Telecine colorist: Joe Gawler/Technicolor, New York." "

[MacEachaidh]

Yep, I did read that. I noticed though that the wording is a bit inspecific — it doesn't say where the fine-grain master positive came from, or who made the wetgate negative, and doesn't actually say who carried out many of the subsequent processes. The Telecine colour grading was done at Technicolor, but under whose instructions? Was Criterion actually involved?

I thought I'd read somewhere — maybe on Criterion's website, but I can't find it now — that the CC transfer was also (at least partially) from Toho, which is why I asked about it when it was shown that the BFI master is so different.

It doesn't matter, though — it was mostly curiosity that made me ask — but I am a bit surprised that, between Toho and BFI, the end result of what seems described as a specific restoration process isn't better quality than it appears to be. I understand Kurosawa didn't generally have access to high-tech equipment or film stocks, so that's going to limit the outcome, but if Criterion (or whoever) could manage a decent result, why not Toho/BFI?

[Agermemnon]

MacEachaidh

like yourself I too was sure there was more info about the restoration process when the disc was released but can't find it now.
The BFI release is very disappointing for me as, it was very late getting released by the BFI ( I'm sure I read 3 or more years before it was released it was coming out soon ? ) the image quality whilst better than their own DVD is a poor mans Blu-ray, then there's the packaging... which imo is bloody shocking. All of this is such a shame and wasted opportunity for what is a highly regarded classic film.

[EddieLarkin]

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

The Telecine colour grading was done at Technicolor, but under whose instructions? Was Criterion actually involved?

Yes. Lee Kline was the supervisor, as it says. He does most (all?) of Criterion's mastering.

[Ozu Teapot]

Originally Posted by Agermemnon

...then there's the packaging... which imo is bloody shocking...

At least the packaging (steelbook) made people like myself delay in getting this. If it had had a simultaneous amaray release I'd probably have picked it up. Now I'll probably get the Criterion at a later date unless there's a Tenebre style upgrade in the meantime (unlikely I'd have thought).

[rapta]

The Adventures of Prince Achmed only £8.49 on Amazon!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Adventur.../dp/B00CMQXU1Q

[duggie walker]

I have a suspicion that the BFI might release THE DAY THE EARTH CAUGHT FIRE later this year.

It's showing as part of their sci-fi season later this year and a recent tweet said that "at least one British sci-fi classic" would be coming to Blu. I believe Network released the dvd but they did release the BFI restored THE LODGER recently.

They're also showing VILLAGE OF THE DAMNED but WB own that, so I figure that's less likely. However - unless they're showing a print of that - it might hint at a BD release anyway. THE THING FROM ANOTHER WORLD is another title... Is WB going to drop a vintage sci-fi boxset on us?

Just speculation.

[the blob]

Originally Posted by duggie walker

I have a suspicion that the BFI might release THE DAY THE EARTH CAUGHT FIRE later this year.

It's showing as part of their sci-fi season later this year and a recent tweet said that "at least one British sci-fi classic" would be coming to Blu.

I had that suspicion too based on the same and not really seeing anything else in the line-up that fits. If so, I would be over the moon as it's one of my favourite sci-fi and British films of all time. Network seem to be picking up the pace a little on BD but not delving into their catalogue much.