Ask questions to The Digital Bits team (Bill Hunt, Jeff Kleist et.al.)

[blindcat87]

WB has been pretty good with dramas, but there are some odd exceptions, I believe that 'The Closer' is a WB release and the first season DVD inexplicably was released in non-anamorphic widescreen. It still bugs me that they let this happen and did not correct it. I keep hoping for Blu versions of the whole series so I can part with my first season set.

Chris

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

That insert's pretty good.

However, a lot of WB shows (sitcoms mostly) like Reba, Gilmore Girls, etc. were shot and shown in HD with the DVD versions cropped to 4x3. NOw, I'm not a fan on those shows but I do believe in OAR (there are plenty of movies I don't like or care about, but want them OAR as well). Occasionally I'll stumble across an episode of these shows in syndication shown in HD (yes, HD, not TBS' stretch-o-vision) and they're HD 16x9. They also featured these shows often in store HDTV demos so the 4x3 DVD cropping seems really odd, especially when WB has been pretty good about other shows on DVD like Smallville on DVD in 16x9.
BTW: one such store demo clip of Everwood made me a fan of the adorable Sarah Drew.

[Jeff Kleist]

Buffy is Fox

Which is why I think they should stick with the OAR for TV series unless care was taken to make sure the extended area would be clear in case of a widescreen version being done. Truthfully, unless the season was actually shot to be widescreen, I would rather keep the broadcast ratio, since it can look a bit odd to have everything and everyone huddled in the center of a widescreen frame with nothing but empty scenery to the side, but that is at least better than seeing crew members, lighting, and so on.

Europe saw Buffy wide because a huge percentage of people had the TVs at that point, and that's what the BBC showed. That's why their DVDs are wide and ours are not. That's also why they have the "previously on"s, because Fox just dumped the PAL broadcast msters onto DVD, instead of using the master master. Either way, the end result of watching Buffy, and many other shows at the time is like watching Snow white or Pinnocchio with the sidebar art on except ugly. Everything is crowded in the middle and mysterious ghosts keep popping in and out of frame on the edges

[Alan Gordon]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

However, a lot of WB shows (sitcoms mostly) like Reba, Gilmore Girls, etc. were shot and shown in HD with the DVD versions cropped to 4x3. NOw, I'm not a fan on those shows but I do believe in OAR (there are plenty of movies I don't like or care about, but want them OAR as well).

I am a fan of both, so I thought I'd chime in.

"Gilmore Girls" (WB) began airing in HD on the WB in its 3rd or 4th season. ABC Family airs "Gilmore Girls" in syndication in HD.... but I don't believe they air the entire series in HD. I've never gotten around to checking, so I'm not sure what season they start showing HD on ABC Family, but I'm pretty sure that the 1st season isn't among the episodes shown in HD. I don't know how the show was framed during it's earlier seasons.

Reba (Fox) began airing in HD during the middle of it's run as well, but I'm not sure when. I don't have access to HD versions of the channels in which "Reba" is syndicated, so I don't know how many of the seasons are shown in HD.

Of course, there are other good examples of shows like this as well.

"Frasier" (Paramount) - Started HD during it's later years, but released 4x3 on DVD.
"The King Of Queens" (Sony) - Started HD during it's earlier years, but released 4x3 on DVD.
"CSI: Crime Scene Investigations" (Paramount) - Want 16x9 on the first season? Buy the Blu-ray!
"American Dreams": Season One (Universal) - Presented in HD on NBC, 4x3 on DVD.
"The O.C.": Season One (WB) - Aired in 16x9 on FOX, presented in 4x3 on DVD unless you purchase the complete series.
"How I Met Your Mother": Season One (Fox) - Aired in 16x9 on CBS, presented in 4x3 on DVD.

Sometimes it's the request of the creators, sometimes it's the studio wanting to keep a consistant look.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

BTW: one such store demo clip of Everwood made me a fan of the adorable Sarah Drew.

I enjoyed her recent appearance on "Glee".

"Everwood" (WB) is another interesting story. The Pilot episode and 1st Season Finale is presented in non-anamorphic widescreen, but the rest of the season is presented in 4x3. S2 is thankfully anamorphic.

"Everwood" is one of my dream titles on Blu-ray, but given it's sales on DVD, my dream will most likely always remain one.

~Alan

[blindcat87]

I know Buffy is Fox, the comment on WB was referring to Babylon 5. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

Chris

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Buffy is Fox



Europe saw Buffy wide because a huge percentage of people had the TVs at that point, and that's what the BBC showed. That's why their DVDs are wide and ours are not. That's also why they have the "previously on"s, because Fox just dumped the PAL broadcast msters onto DVD, instead of using the master master. Either way, the end result of watching Buffy, and many other shows at the time is like watching Snow white or Pinnocchio with the sidebar art on except ugly. Everything is crowded in the middle and mysterious ghosts keep popping in and out of frame on the edges

[jfcarbel]

Seinfeld and Fox's X-Files TV seasons were the ones I was interested in the possibility of 16x9 AR.

I believe TBS or TNT has shown Seinfeld in HD wide-screen, I believe it was not stretch-o-vision but was not a perfect science either and some key stuff was cropped.

X-Files, seasons 1 - 4 were never filmed in 16x9 or framed for 16x9. Then there is the issue of the FX edited on video as well for it to go full HD.

So not sure what the probability on 16x9 done the "right" way or very close to it would be.

[NL197]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Angel on the other hand,was always meant be 16:9 as the target AR, though they didn't get to do it until the second season

Third season, third episode, actually. Seasons 1 and 2 are just like widescreen Buffy: crew members, secondary cameras, transitional shots remaining 4:3 and all. Continuity and vampire reflection in-camera tricks are also ruined by the 'opened up' framing. It wasn't until after the first two episodes of season 3 were shot that word came down to letterbox the show, meaning they had to re-format those two episodes (which could potentially explain severe continuity errors with "dusted" vampires throughout "Heartthrob", the third season premiere) to 16:9.

Source: http://www.cityofangel.com/behindThe...adamWard2.html

Season 1 was released on DVD everywhere in 4:3 except for Hulu.com which has it wide, while all regions except Australia's region 4 got season 2 wide. If you want OAR season 2 on DVD, look down...under.

[Jeff Kleist]

Seinfeld has been re-transferred in HD. I don't know the details, but it appears that at least for some time they were shooting common height, and the earlier stuff is tilt-n-scan from the shots I've seen. I can't be sure cause I'm not familiar with the show.

If memory serves, X-Files was shot 16mm for the first 2 seasons. Luckily the show relied on practical effects a lot, but any computer or other VFX stuff would be SD upconverts almost certainly. The show's a bit burned out right now to be honest, and given the performance of the second movie (which yes, I believe had as much to do with it sucking as franchise fatigue)

I think they'll manage a $20-30 millionish third movie to wrap up the mythology story, hopefully released at a better time of year for it (February March probably would have done much better for the sequel). Either way, I don't see Fox releasing the TV episodes on Blu-ray for some time to come.

In fact my advice for ST:TNG, X-Files, Buffy and all of these popular series that people want HD upgrades on is to pull them all from cable right now and put the DVDs on moratorium. Let want and desire build for these shows again, and then find a broadcast partner to help re-introduce them in HD with upgraded FX. By 2012 there will be a strong enough user base to support it, and enough time will have passed that people will tune in again to episodes in a good slot.

[NL197]

Originally Posted by jfcarbel

I believe TBS or TNT has shown Seinfeld in HD wide-screen, I believe it was not stretch-o-vision but was not a perfect science either and some key stuff was cropped.

Seinfeld has been airing HD widescreen episodes in syndication for a little while now, and it's a combination of the Buffy / Angel method of 'opening up' the frame revealing extra space on the sides of the image, and cropping the image in an effort to avoid the problems revealed by doing that (which the Buffy / Angel method revealed quite a bit). That's why when looking at Seinfeld episodes, some shots look wider, more spacious and others look cramped due to cropped tops of heads and other things in the top and bottom of the frame.

[NL197]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

In fact my advice for ST:TNG, X-Files, Buffy and all of these popular series that people want HD upgrades on is to pull them all from cable right now and put the DVDs on moratorium. Let want and desire build for these shows again, and then find a broadcast partner to help re-introduce them in HD with upgraded FX. By 2012 there will be a strong enough user base to support it, and enough time will have passed that people will tune in again to episodes in a good slot.

In which case Fox and Paramount won't have to bother spending the money on that because the world will be gone by then. Smart move on their part if they follow that plan!

If anyone is interested in a series of screenshots revealing the wider look of ANGEL season 1, including a few reveals of things best left unseen, here's a small gallery of them, a couple of which I've shown here before:

http://s134.photobucket.com/albums/q...en%20Oddities/

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

That insert's pretty good.

However, a lot of WB shows (sitcoms mostly) like Reba, Gilmore Girls, etc. were shot and shown in HD with the DVD versions cropped to 4x3. NOw, I'm not a fan on those shows but I do believe in OAR (there are plenty of movies I don't like or care about, but want them OAR as well). Occasionally I'll stumble across an episode of these shows in syndication shown in HD (yes, HD, not TBS' stretch-o-vision) and they're HD 16x9. They also featured these shows often in store HDTV demos so the 4x3 DVD cropping seems really odd, especially when WB has been pretty good about other shows on DVD like Smallville on DVD in 16x9.
BTW: one such store demo clip of Everwood made me a fan of the adorable Sarah Drew.

Gilmore Girls was actually intended to be in 4:3, the makers said so themselves. And you can see it clearly they framed for that too. Everything outside the 4:3 frame is redundant, although you couldn't see crew members and such like on Buffy. They were shot in widescreen from the beginning too.

[Grubert]

Originally Posted by NL197

In which case Fox and Paramount won't have to bother spending the money on that because the world will be gone by then. Smart move on their part if they follow that plan!

If anyone is interested in a series of screenshots revealing the wider look of ANGEL season 1, including a few reveals of things best left unseen, here's a small gallery of them, a couple of which I've shown here before:

http://s134.photobucket.com/albums/q...en%20Oddities/

Good one.

[Esox50]

Jeff,

With Warner announcing Clash of the Titans, is there anything else that can be said about it? I would assume this would have had to have some "work" done to it to bring it up to snuff for a Blu release, right?

I don't know why but I thought I remembered reading that this was being restored or something along those lines.

-Esox

[SpaceDog]

Originally Posted by Alan Gordon

"How I Met Your Mother": Season One (Fox) - Aired in 16x9 on CBS, presented in 4x3 on DVD.

For this and other reasons, I'll be holding off on HIMYM for a complete series Blu-Ray release.

[Jeff Kleist]

With Warner announcing Clash of the Titans, is there anything else that can be said about it? I would assume this would have had to have some "work" done to it to bring it up to snuff for a Blu release, right?

I don't know why but I thought I remembered reading that this was being restored or something along those lines.

Have realistic expectations, that's all I can say. Lots of optical printing, 80s movie, not huge budget.

[NL197]

Originally Posted by Grubert

Good one.

This one's my favorite:



The camera crew made sure to get that aftermath shot of Angel throwing that guy across the room. When you see it in motion, the camera moves up slightly to get the best shot.

[MerrickG]

Jeff,

ANy real news on what the directors cut of Terminator Salvation contains in contrast to the theatrical?

[Alan Gordon]

Originally Posted by KubrickFan

Gilmore Girls was actually intended to be in 4:3, the makers said so themselves. And you can see it clearly they framed for that too. Everything outside the 4:3 frame is redundant, although you couldn't see crew members and such like on Buffy. They were shot in widescreen from the beginning too.

I was told that S1 of "The O.C." was intended to be 4x3 as well, and was done that way on the DVD... even though it aired in 16x9 via FOX ED (the FOX network didn't broadcast HD until S2). However, when it came time for the Complete Series set, it was presented in 16x9.

Good to hear about GG being shot in widescreen from the beginning, as it goes higher up on my list of MOST WANTED CATALOG TV-ON-BLU titles.

Originally Posted by SpaceDog

For this and other reasons, I'll be holding off on HIMYM for a complete series Blu-Ray release.

I held off on the DVDs because of the 1st season. I did purchase S4 on Blu-ray, and will buy other seasons as they come.

Jeff,

All this talk about TV on Blu-ray, and the rumor on the front page got me thinking.

"The West Wing" was supposed to be released on HD DVD years ago, and "Friends" was hinted at on a WB webpage at some point years ago (read The Digital Bits - (EARLY UPDATE - 9/10/07 - 12:01 AM PDT)). One other title mentioned on that webpage was "Smallville: Season One". Is there a possibility this rumored title may finally see the light of day?

P.S.: Take a look at some of the other titles mentioned on that list. Sure, some of them were released in '07 & '08, but some of them were just recently released ("The Wizard Of Oz"), and some have been recently announced "Clash Of The Titans", "Whiteout", and others hinted at for next year!

~Alan

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by KubrickFan

Gilmore Girls was actually intended to be in 4:3, the makers said so themselves. And you can see it clearly they framed for that too. Everything outside the 4:3 frame is redundant, although you couldn't see crew members and such like on Buffy. They were shot in widescreen from the beginning too.

Well, the framing does look nice in 16x9 *and* anamorphic widescreen has higher resolution. It's not like they pillarboxed the HD broadcasts.

[Jeff Kleist]

ANy real news on what the directors cut of Terminator Salvation contains in contrast to the theatrical?

None, and there won't be on that or sarah connor DTV movies until the rights to the franchise are settled.

Malcom in the Middle is another one broadcast 16:9 and 4:3 on DVD. There's even a documentary on there where they talk about how they felt the 16:9 version is too compromised (first shot of the show is full of light stands!).

No, Malcom season 2 isn't coming any time soon, sorry. I want it too

TV titles have been on and off the schedule so many times, I don't even speculate on when they might be coming.

[wallendo]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Well, the framing does look nice in 16x9 *and* anamorphic widescreen has higher resolution. It's not like they pillarboxed the HD broadcasts.

On DVD, anamorphic widescreen and "full frame" have the same resolution (720x480 nonsquare pixels). I assume by "anamorphic widescreen" on blu-ray you are referring to 16:9 nonanamorphic widescreen, which would have more horizontal pixels, but the resolution would be the same. ( the new horizontal pixels would cover the unmasked portion of the film, but the actual resolution of the primary image would be the same, hence there would be no change in video quality.)