"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

Nopers. Just ate here:

http://www.frankspm.com/

Fantabulous. Another suggestion for next time you're in BKLYN:

http://www.vinegarhillhouse.com/

Mmmm. Meat...

Oh, you’re the cruel one, you are.

And here I am fasting all day…..as being on liquids only, for me, is fasting. Now onto downing another scrumptious bottle of Mag Citrate and forming a truly lasting relationship with our bathroom.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

At the risk of opening up a can of worms……the ‘original’ screenshot folks, I assume, first watched the FOTR Blu-ray in motion (by whatever method they procured their early Blu-ray copies) and earnestly noticed something being *off*…….and in this case, it was the coloring.

No, it's probably more like they read about the color timing adjustments, went to their monitors and screamed bloody murder.

In other words: just like the other times.

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

No, it's probably more like they read about the color timing adjustments, went to their monitors and screamed bloody murder.

In other words: just like the other times.

Or worse...many were making judgements on the screenshots alone and didn't see the movie in motion to make a determination on their own.

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Merr-man, I’m happy for you. I truly am.

Given what I’ve read of the discussion on that thread by the more unhappy (or, at least, discerningly concerned) viewers, if their complaints are valid, I think it’s safe to say that you have zero or low tolerance to the intensity setting with some tint filters and you probably don’t want to hear anything anyway about more selective solutions like color keying, power windows, vignettes or how to gradient colorize.

Let me just say that when I tried to keep up with that LOTR thread on the forum, I noticed that you were one of thee more prolific posters. Given that fact, I surely hope that when you pulled the trigger, you decided to *give back* to Blu-ray.com in a meaningful way (rather than just ‘opinion’) for the privilege of such an extended period on the ‘soap box” , so-to-speak, and thusly purchased the set through the link we have here to Amazon.

I think that would have been the fair thing to do.

I either do it through here or thedigitalbits.com I have MORE than done my part to support the site in that regard.

[Mr. Cinema]

I've watched about half of disc 1 of FOTR and it looks great to me. The sky in the Shire was blue. Everything looked normal. I noticed maybe a very, very slight teal tint to some of the nighttime scenes, but it's certainly not something worth throwing a fit over. Of course, I just like to enjoy movies. I am not purposely looking for errors. I'm too caught up in the film to worry about such miniscule things.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

Or worse...many were making judgements on the screenshots alone and didn't see the movie in motion to make a determination on their own.

Well, whatever the truth of the intent and process may be, at least one upside I see to the whole LOTR thread is that I think it has given more credence to the importance of a calibrated display.

….either in going the whole 9 yards by paying a reputable ISF calibrator for his personal service or, at the minimum, for individual home theater enthusiasts to take a look at things like the complimentary (free) test signals provided now as an ‘extra’ on some of the newer SPHE Blu-ray movies.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well, whatever the truth of the intent and process may be, at least one upside I see to the whole LOTR thread is that I think it has given more credence to the importance of a calibrated display.

….either in going the whole 9 yards by paying a reputable ISF calibrator for his personal service or, at the minimum, for individual home theater enthusiasts to take a look at things like the complimentary (free) test signals provided now as an ‘extra’ on some of the newer SPHE Blu-ray movies.

I recently bought the Disney WOW test BD, it just arrived today so I have not had a chance to use it. I'm quite sure my Panny 50" plasma 700u is calibrated correctly as I've tinkered with it quite extensively...but I'm curious to see "how I did" according to the disc.
Penton, have you tried this disc? If so, what are your thought on it?


Also this may be a 3D related question, but did anyone notice ESPN's coverage of Wimbledon...more precisely when they did slo-mo instant replay. The players white clothing flickers. Is that because ESPN might be filming with 3D cameras? I thought I heard that it was available on ESPN3D? The reason I ask is now that NBC has taken over coverage, you don't see the flickering on the white clothing. Just thought I'd ask as I found it kind of interesting.

Edit: I will add there was plenty of green tint during the tennis matches ;-)

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well, whatever the truth of the intent and process may be, at least one upside I see to the whole LOTR thread is that I think it has given more credence to the importance of a calibrated display.

….either in going the whole 9 yards by paying a reputable ISF calibrator for his personal service or, at the minimum, for individual home theater enthusiasts to take a look at things like the complimentary (free) test signals provided now as an ‘extra’ on some of the newer SPHE Blu-ray movies.

All of my displays are calibrated to D65, including my computer monitor.

[Dotpattern]

Originally Posted by rickah88

Also this may be a 3D related question, but did anyone notice ESPN's coverage of Wimbledon...more precisely when they did slo-mo instant replay. The players white clothing flickers. Is that because ESPN might be filming with 3D cameras? I thought I heard that it was available on ESPN3D? The reason I ask is now that NBC has taken over coverage, you don't see the flickering on the white clothing. Just thought I'd ask as I found it kind of interesting.

ESPN isn't filming with 3D cameras. Sony is. Unfortunately I can't comment on the flickering you saw on ESPN as I haven't watched their broadcasts of it.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by rickah88

Penton, have you tried this disc? If so, what are your thought on it?

Sorry, I can’t say that I have.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

All of my displays are calibrated to D65, including my computer monitor.

Well my friend, I’m certain they are.

As you may ponder more esoteric matters like, for instance, what be the playback (display) gamma for mastering that a studio has used for this or that particular Blu-ray movie, so you could calibrate your displays or projectors to that exact value and achieve the absolute best picture quality……or, at least, replicate in your home, the full fruition of the particular studios’ mastering process. A value, which by the way, wasn’t until fairly recently even defined by the ITU for 709.

I was speaking more to the un-calibrated folks on that thread, not you. Bottom line – there is a lesson to be learned (the benefits of calibration) for other folks who might not have otherwise been attuned to the subject and now desire an accurate home theater experience.

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well my friend, I’m certain they are.

As you may ponder more esoteric matters like, for instance, what be the playback (display) gamma for mastering that a studio has used for this or that particular Blu-ray movie, so you could calibrate your displays or projectors to that exact value and achieve the absolute best picture quality……or, at least, replicate in your home, the full fruition of the particular studios’ mastering process. A value, which by the way, wasn’t until fairly recently even defined by the ITU for 709.

I was speaking more to the un-calibrated folks on that thread, not you. Bottom line – there is a lesson to be learned (the benefits of calibration) for other folks who might not have otherwise been attuned to the subject and now desire an accurate home theater experience.

I target a gamma of 2.2 for all my displays.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema

I've watched about half of disc 1 of FOTR and it looks great to me. The sky in the Shire was blue. Everything looked normal. I noticed maybe a very, very slight teal tint to some of the nighttime scenes, but it's certainly not something worth throwing a fit over. Of course, I just like to enjoy movies. I am not purposely looking for errors. I'm too caught up in the film to worry about such miniscule things.

There were only two instances where the cyan tint was very obvious. And I kind of missed seeing that tint when I watched the second film tonight.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

I target a gamma of 2.2 for all my displays.

Firstly, viewers should use for a gamma which is appropriate for the viewing conditions that the material will be played in. As a very rough guide, I would say many people believe that, as an absolute number, a gamma of 2.2 is most optimal for viewing video on a monitor in an office or with daylight type lighting.

In a nutshell, the problem has been that there is no standardized display gamma for 709 (or 601) and consumers (as well as some mastering facilities) have used anything from about 2.0 - 2.6 as their playback gamma…..which in simplistic terms, ultimately affects how your Blu-ray movies will look. I think it was a year or so ago someone spilled the beans that Pixar calibrated their displays using REC 709 primaries and a 2.4 gamma. Pixar’s stuff looks great. I would imagine there are additional Hollywood studios that have also targeted 2.35 – 2.4 gamma for their digital displays in their mastering suites too.

Anyway, last fall, the ITU agreed upon 2.4 for the display gamma for 601 and 709. But, reference black luminance, reference white luminance, and viewing conditions are still undefined and they are working toward resolving that.

Another fly in the ointment for true connoisseur calibrators is that things, such as blacks, change over time. For instance, you need to check the calibration on some plasma flat panels, regularly (every several months). I’m informed that the Panny consumer models from 2008 – 2009 were quite challenged in that regard as apparently Panny set their voltage leveling to be too aggressive but, I have no personal experience with those models. Point being, even if properly calibrated, with some digital displays out there, don’t expect the accuracy to be permanent without regular interval *maintenance*.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ole geezer

Well...you could be right; but, I'm going anyway just in case we're wrong. I'm willing to give the guy a lotta slack on the story line but on the 3D side of it...it better blow my socks off.

The problem is that live action fast pans and 3D depth of field don’t do well together. For the most part, despite the publicity hype, expect a rather shallow 3D experience.

[Dennis M]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Firstly, viewers should use for a gamma which is appropriate for the viewing conditions that the material will be played in. As a very rough guide, I would say many people believe that, as an absolute number, a gamma of 2.2 is most optimal for viewing video on a monitor in an office or with daylight type lighting.

In a nutshell, the problem has been that there is no standardized display gamma for 709 (or 601) and consumers (as well as some mastering facilities) have used anything from about 2.0 - 2.6 as their playback gamma…..which in simplistic terms, ultimately affects how your Blu-ray movies will look. I think it was a year or so ago someone spilled the beans that Pixar calibrated their displays using REC 709 primaries and a 2.4 gamma. Pixar’s stuff looks great. I would imagine there are additional Hollywood studios that have also targeted 2.35 – 2.4 gamma for their digital displays in their mastering suites too.

Anyway, last fall, the ITU agreed upon 2.4 for the display gamma for 601 and 709. But, reference black luminance, reference white luminance, and viewing conditions are still undefined and they are working toward resolving that.

Another fly in the ointment for true connoisseur calibrators is that things, such as blacks, change over time. For instance, you need to check the calibration on some plasma flat panels, regularly (every several months). I’m informed that the Panny consumer models from 2008 – 2009 were quite challenged in that regard as apparently Panny set their voltage leveling to be too aggressive but, I have no personal experience with those models. Point being, even if properly calibrated, with some digital displays out there, don’t expect the accuracy to be permanent without regular interval *maintenance*.

Great post Penton

A couple of years ago I quized you on this topic hoping there was some standard being followed. Glad to hear that one is now being discussed. It will make life a bit easier when it comes to calibrating displays.

Currently I'm running my gamma at 2.35 and calibrate the RS35 twice a year.

Bulb projectors drift off of baseline faster than plasmas.

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Firstly, viewers should use for a gamma which is appropriate for the viewing conditions that the material will be played in. As a very rough guide, I would say many people believe that, as an absolute number, a gamma of 2.2 is most optimal for viewing video on a monitor in an office or with daylight type lighting.

...which of course leads us to OS-level gamma differences between Macs and PCs.

I wonder if most people viewing screenshots should announced what OS they're viewing the files as? Certainly would account for some elements if a Mac creates a file that looks fine on the (brighter) gamma, then looks "dark and washed up" on PC (or, of course, vice versa, with overly bright images on the Mac)

http://version2.andrewkendall.com/pa...a/tutorial.php

[DenonCI]

Since I own all of my own equipment, I touch-up quarterly. 2.2 seems to work best for my conditions though and I've never gotten a complaint when friends/family watch a movie at my house

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Firstly, viewers should use for a gamma which is appropriate for the viewing conditions that the material will be played in. As a very rough guide, I would say many people believe that, as an absolute number, a gamma of 2.2 is most optimal for viewing video on a monitor in an office or with daylight type lighting.

In a nutshell, the problem has been that there is no standardized display gamma for 709 (or 601) and consumers (as well as some mastering facilities) have used anything from about 2.0 - 2.6 as their playback gamma…..which in simplistic terms, ultimately affects how your Blu-ray movies will look. I think it was a year or so ago someone spilled the beans that Pixar calibrated their displays using REC 709 primaries and a 2.4 gamma. Pixar’s stuff looks great. I would imagine there are additional Hollywood studios that have also targeted 2.35 – 2.4 gamma for their digital displays in their mastering suites too.

Anyway, last fall, the ITU agreed upon 2.4 for the display gamma for 601 and 709. But, reference black luminance, reference white luminance, and viewing conditions are still undefined and they are working toward resolving that.

Another fly in the ointment for true connoisseur calibrators is that things, such as blacks, change over time. For instance, you need to check the calibration on some plasma flat panels, regularly (every several months). I’m informed that the Panny consumer models from 2008 – 2009 were quite challenged in that regard as apparently Panny set their voltage leveling to be too aggressive but, I have no personal experience with those models. Point being, even if properly calibrated, with some digital displays out there, don’t expect the accuracy to be permanent without regular interval *maintenance*.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

Since I own all of my own equipment, I touch-up quarterly. 2.2 seems to work best for my conditions though and I've never gotten a complaint when friends/family watch a movie at my house

I'm happy for you.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

...which of course leads us to....

See your PMs for a kick. Also, feel free to post another restaurant recommendation as I am no longer fasting.