Sony Black Crush on late-2014 / early-2015 BDs

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

I don't think they would correct it.
After all they didn't correct or issue replacements for the US Blurays of the other films, did they?
I want this film so much .
Pity that I can't bring myself buying it.

That's true, to my knowledge the US discs of the other titles were never corrected, only the overseas releases were, since they hadn't been released yet and could more easily be fixed.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Patsfan123

This is back in stock on amazon.. Not sure if it's been fixed or just old stock is back for sale.

Unlike Fury their 4k version on the unlimited service does not have the black crush

[filmmusic]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

Unlike Fury their 4k version on the unlimited service does not have the black crush

I'm sorry?
You mean there is a digital 4K version of My Best Friend's wedding that doesn't have the black crush?
(I don't know what is this unlimited service thing)

edit: just found out what it is:
https://us.en.kb.sony.com/app/answer...ent-from-video

[bruceames]

Can't wait to see Fury on UHD BD. The format so far is bringing out incredible shadow detail that Blu-ray is not even capable of. The regulars in this thread will be happy about that.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

I'm sorry?
You mean there is a digital 4K version of My Best Friend's wedding that doesn't have the black crush?
(I don't know what is this unlimited service thing)

edit: just found out what it is:
https://us.en.kb.sony.com/app/answer...ent-from-video

I can get images give me 10 mins

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Can't wait to see Fury on UHD BD. The format so far is bringing out incredible shadow detail.

The master on video unlimited has the crush

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

The master on video unlimited has the crush

Yeah I have it and it does have the crush like the BD.

[filmmusic]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

I can get images give me 10 mins

Found some on the net.
yes, it seems the problem is gone, although it would be great if we could compare them directly to the bluray.

[Patsfan123]

FYI, I was able to reverse out the black crush by using my PC with Media Player Classic HC (MPC HC) and MadVR. I could do it by either setting the input levels to PC (and keeping output levels at TV) or by setting the output level to PC (and keeping the input levels as TV).

I was also able to correct the opposite issue for Double Impact where the black level is too light by setting the output levels to Expand Black Levels.

[filmmusic]

Originally Posted by Patsfan123

FYI, I was able to reverse out the black crush by using my PC with Media Player Classic HC (MPC HC) and MadVR. I could do it by either setting the input levels to PC (and keeping output levels at TV) or by setting the output level to PC (and keeping the input levels as TV).

I was also able to correct the opposite issue for Double Impact where the black level is too light by setting the output levels to Expand Black Levels.

But I thought it was clear that even if you reverse the black crush, you don't bring back the detail. You'll just see a grey crush or something.

The thing in Double Impact though would be possible since it's the opposite.

[Patsfan123]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

But I thought it was clear that even if you reverse the black crush, you don't bring back the detail. You'll just see a grey crush or something.

The thing in Double Impact though would be possible since it's the opposite.

I thought so too but I compared the (corrected) Hancock MI4K (JP) disc to the US disc and it looked the same to me. I think the distinction is that this fix was more than just raising brightness, it was remapping levels so that black 0 = 16 now and 255 = 235.

[filmmusic]

Can you please let me know what exactly do you do in MPC? I use it too sometimes to watch blurays when i want to load external subtitles.
It works only in MadVR? But anyway, i have that, although I use more EVR custom pres.
In what options do you go? MadVR's or MPC's?

also what exactly do you do for the opposite: for the Double Impact Bluray.

[Patsfan123]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

Can you please let me know what exactly do you do in MPC? I use it too sometimes to watch blurays when i want to load external subtitles.
It works only in MadVR? But anyway, i have that, although I use more EVR custom pres.
In what options do you go? MadVR's or MPC's?

also what exactly do you do for the opposite: for the Double Impact Bluray.

There was a custom filter in MPC-HC that converted Double Impact correctly. I believe it was named something like "PC to TV levels".. but I am at work so I cannot confirm.

For MadVR: Once you have MadVR installed and enabled. Use Ctrl-Alt-Shift-I to change input levels (convert black crush to normal).

Use Ctrl-Alt-Shift-Y to change output levels (convert elevated levels or black crush to normal). Expand black level was the setting to fix elevated levels.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Patsfan123

FYI, I was able to reverse out the black crush by using my PC with Media Player Classic HC (MPC HC) and MadVR. I could do it by either setting the input levels to PC (and keeping output levels at TV) or by setting the output level to PC (and keeping the input levels as TV).

Interesting. Was it just the JPN Hancock that you tried this on or are there others? I ask because the fix to bring it back to normal sounds VERY similar to what was needed on the botched black crush S8 discs for X-Files.

[Patsfan123]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Interesting. Was it just the JPN Hancock that you tried this on or are there others? I ask because the fix to bring it back to normal sounds VERY similar to what was needed on the botched black crush S8 discs for X-Files.

Hancock is the only disc I own with the black crush issue but I wouldn't be surprised if this works for most of the black crushed discs. It's probably a tickbox or command line screw up during encoding.

I do own Double Impact so I can confirm that fix as well.

[filmmusic]

Originally Posted by Patsfan123

There was a custom filter in MPC-HC that converted Double Impact correctly. I believe it was named something like "PC to TV levels".. but I am at work so I cannot confirm.

For MadVR: Once you have MadVR installed and enabled. Use Ctrl-Alt-Shift-I to change input levels (convert black crush to normal).

Use Ctrl-Alt-Shift-Y to change output levels (convert elevated levels or black crush to normal). Expand black level was the setting to fix elevated levels.

Thanks, although i avoid using shortcuts because I want to see visually the changes.
I mean seeing the options and changing them manually there.

i found this in the properties of madVR:


It shows the output levels (PC or TV) although I cannot see any option for input levels.

edit: I see also there are some shaders in MPC, although I don't know how to use them:
0-255 to 16-235
16-235 to 0-255 [SD]
16-235 to 0-255 [SD] [HD]

[Patsfan123]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

Thanks, although i avoid using shortcuts because I want to see visually the changes.
I mean seeing the options and changing them manually there.

i found this in the properties of madVR:

[Show spoiler]

It shows the output levels (PC or TV) although I cannot see any option for input levels.

I had to use the shortcuts and they work instantly, you will see a change-believe me.

I didn't find anyway to change the levels in the settings. I wouldn't touch those because they are for your monitor and I think it could potential screw up all discs if mis-set.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Patsfan123

Hancock is the only disc I own with the black crush issue but I wouldn't be surprised if this works for most of the black crushed discs. It's probably a tickbox or command line screw up during encoding.

I do own Double Impact so I can confirm that fix as well.

Sure, Double Impact (like anything mastered to 16-235 with an uncorrected PC levels source) can be brought back to relative normalcy by forcibly remapping the image back down to 16-235 (I do the same with the UK Drunken Master 2 and Italian Maximum Overdrive) but until X-Files S8 came along I don't think anyone even realised that outright black crush could be reversed.

But in the case of X-Files it seems to be a very specific set of circumstances which allow for it: I think the image has been mapped correctly to 16-235 THEN incorrectly remapped back out to 0-255 and encoded/flagged onto disc as standard 16-235 with the BTB/WTW headroom preserving the 0-255 range. So when it's played on a regular TV levels set-up those 16 points of black are crushed up completely, but expanding to PC levels at some point in the chain allows for them to be recovered. (Something which works in reverse on PC level set-ups because the image has already been remapped to 0-255 to show on the PC/projector in the first place.)

BUT...I'm sure I tried that trick with the UK crushed Blu-ray of Fury and it didn't reverse the crush, it just made the image look too bright which made me think that instead of the above occuring, the image got remapped to 16-235 TWICE before encoding so the crush was properly baked in and couldn't be recovered.

[hdgfs]

Originally Posted by Patsfan123

This is back in stock on amazon.. Not sure if it's been fixed or just old stock is back for sale.

I ordered this from amazon.com on the 16th, arrived yesterday and it is NOT fixed, still crushed.

[Patsfan123]

Originally Posted by hdgfs

I ordered this from amazon.com on the 16th, arrived yesterday and it is NOT fixed, still crushed.

Do you have access to a PC with a BD drive? It may be reversible.