Top Gun: Maverick (2022)

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Who cares? How many police chiefs have there been barking at the Callahans, Riggs, McClanes of the movies? Add Mitchell to the list of hot dogs in a chain of command who defy their superior officers and break the rules.

[Show spoiler]
I'm not sure what the comparison with police departments has to do with this. Law enforcement and the military aren't exactly the same, but at the very least you could say they each have their own disciplinary methods when someone isn't doing what is being asked of them?

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

Viper taught Maverick to never leave his wingman because Maverick could get killed. So he doesn't.

[Show spoiler]So, in other words... he realizes he's not special and has to learn some humility.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

[Show spoiler]Well, I mean, I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but doesn't the Hamm character himself get orders from higher up?

[Show spoiler]I don't believe there is much discussion or implication of this in the film, other than Iceman was outspoken in his belief that the mission could be accomplished without sacrificing all the pilots, and also that Iceman has enough power in the org to keep this alternate plan alive. Hence when he dies, Maverick and the iceman/maverick plan is canned.

Once Maverick demonstrates the canyon run can be successfully completed in 2:15, the mission commander uses this as evidence for his superiors to reinstate iceman/mavericks original vision. The mission commander and org itself are maybe not truly bad in nature, but essentially are bad because their jaded skepticism leads them to believe that true individual exceptionalism is not possible which results in a suicidal mission plan. This is why iceman says org needs more Maverick, he is exceptionalism embodied.

Movie opens up with a program being shut down due to bureaucratic budgeting doubts (again jaded skepticism), Maverick proves the project is worthy by exceeding the expectation.

Rooster and Maverick both emphasize the pilot is more important than the equipment, they say this several times and prove it with the f14. Importance of individualism,.individual skill and talent.

Exceptionalism, it's the main drive of this movie, and thats prob why it resonates with many. Whether it's exceeding the goal, treating all human life as valuable, or being the outspoken leader that advocates for changing the governments plan when it's going to get a bunch of people killed - instead of just following (bad) orders.

This core theme is probably also why China financiers pulled out

[Synchg]

[Show spoiler]

[Show spoiler]

[Show spoiler]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

And here he is! It’s Trolls 2 all over again!

godamn stalker. why aint i on ur ignore list yet?
it's an honest observation, hearing you people going on ranting and debating about the motivation behind goose's son following in his father's footsteps.
it's not that deep, and kinda sad you waste your time typing up an 'essay' behind goose's motivation.

Originally Posted by -JKR-

You know what the funny thing is? That no one who loved or liked the movie says the shit you're suggesting.

That post was a generalization on how things are with people's fav, not just towards Top Gun.

Originally Posted by -JKR-

It's trolls like you who resort to hyperbole and feel the need to turn everything into a 'fight.'

You're easily triggered and managed to do that all on your own.
The only fault I'll admit to is not going through the trouble of fully explaining when I do criticize something. I like to keep things vague and short, sprinkled with some humor. And that tends to confuse people.

Originally Posted by -JKR-

All it takes is to express one's criticism and skepticism in an intelligent and mature way, and people will respect any negative opinion.

.

My regulars tend to go into a toxic defensive mode with the insults and because of that, I return it in kind. You're full of it, because you're guilty of it as well. Don't play innocent, you hypocrite.

Originally Posted by -JKR-

But posts like this one reveal what you are... a banal troll.

Not long ago, blubonnet was calling me a troll, now everyone is suggesting the same to him. Funny how that works.
I dont think any of you even know the meaning and coining of the term anymore, and just throw it around when you cant get a read on people.
I don't like typing up lengthy replies like this, its exhausting, you're ignorant existence is exhausting.
Getting a reply from me must be the highlight of your day, troll.

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by Ruined

[Show spoiler]I don't believe there is much discussion or implication of this in the film, other than Iceman was outspoken in his belief that the mission could be accomplished without sacrificing all the pilots, and also that Iceman has enough power in the org to keep this alternate plan alive. Hence when he dies, Maverick and the iceman/maverick plan is canned.

Once Maverick demonstrates the canyon run can be successfully completed in 2:15, the mission commander uses this as evidence for his superiors to reinstate iceman/mavericks original vision. The mission commander and org itself are maybe not truly bad in nature, but essentially are bad because their jaded skepticism leads them to believe that true individual exceptionalism is not possible which results in a suicidal mission plan.

Movie opens up with a program being shut down due to bureaucratic budgeting doubts, Maverick proves the project is worthy by exceeding the expectation.

Rooster and Maverick both emphasize the pilot is more important than the equipment, they say this several times and prove it with the f14.

Exceptionalism, it's the main drive of this movie, and thats prob why it resonates with many. Whether it's exceeding the goal, treating all human life as valuable, or being the outspoken leader that advocates for changing the governments plan when it's going to get a bunch of people killed - instead of just following (bad) orders.

This core theme is probably also why China financiers pulled out

[Show spoiler]Yeah, I didn't have a problem at all with Mav showing that the project that was about to be scrapped maybe didn't have to be (at least for the reasons they were being given) - the part that sticks out as showing that he's not really become a much more mature person since the first movie is where he insists on taking it beyond Mach 10. Because once he had reached that speed, the mission was essentially accomplished, he could have gone back and no planes would have been destroyed. So, he gets up to, I don't remember, Mach 10.3, 10.4, and then the plane falls apart. This would have been a very courageous move if he'd been tasked with trying to determine what's the fastest speed the plane could take, but that wasn't the goal, or what was going to save the program. That's just destroying government property to get your kicks.

Sure enough, the movie plays it for laughs, but it's also a wink-wink to the audience that Mav maybe hasn't changed as much as the first movie suggested to by the end. And then, we learn that he probably thought he could get away with it because he's buddies with Iceman and he's the section commander or whatever the title is. Mav doesn't follow the rules more closely because he doesn't have to.

I could agree with most people not particularly caring one way or another, but not with the notion that it isn't an example of the changes in the first movie not really having changed him on a more permanent basis.

And - that's fine if that's the direction the filmmakers wanted to go in, but they also have to make a few viewers (at least I'm in this group) wonder if Mav was really showing signs of having grown by the end of the first movie or if he was just trying to get people to think he had, but was just hoodwinking them into thinking that.

Again, I can accept the filmmakers going in that direction, but it has to lead (if we're being honest) to reconsider what the ending of the first movie really meant for the character.

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

[Show spoiler]Yeah, I didn't have a problem at all with Mav showing that the project that was about to be scrapped maybe didn't have to be (at least for the reasons they were being given) - the part that sticks out as showing that he's not really become a much more mature person since the first movie is where he insists on taking it beyond Mach 10. Because once he had reached that speed, the mission was essentially accomplished, he could have gone back and no planes would have been destroyed. So, he gets up to, I don't remember, Mach 10.3, 10.4, and then the plane falls apart. This would have been a very courageous move if he'd been tasked with trying to determine what's the most the plane could take, but that wasn't the goal or what was going to save the program.

Sure enough, the movie plays it for laughs, but it's also a wink-wink to the audience that Mav maybe hasn't changed as much as the first movie suggested to by the end. And then, we learn that he probably thought he could get away with it because he's buddies with Iceman and he's the section commander or whatever the title is. Mav doesn't follow the rules more closely because he doesn't have to.

I could agree with most people not particularly caring one way or another, but not with the notion that it isn't an example of the changes in the first movie not really having changed him on a more permanent basis.

And - that's fine if that's the direction the filmmakers wanted to go in, but they also have to make a few viewers (at least I'm in this group) wonder if Mav was really showing signs of having grown by the end of the first movie or if he was just trying to get people to think he had, but was just hoodwinking them into thinking that.

Again, I can accept the filmmakers going in that direction, but it has to lead (if we're being honest) to reconsider what the ending of the first movie really meant for the character.

[Show spoiler]I think losing Goose broke him for a long time and you see evidence of that throughout this film. That and his unwillingness to grow up, hence the fact that he's still a captain and not a colonel or higher like he should be.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

[Show spoiler]Yeah, I didn't have a problem at all with Mav showing that the project that was about to be scrapped maybe didn't have to be (at least for the reasons they were being given) - the part that sticks out as showing that he's not really become a much more mature person since the first movie is where he insists on taking it beyond Mach 10. Because once he had reached that speed, the mission was essentially accomplished, he could have gone back and no planes would have been destroyed. So, he gets up to, I don't remember, Mach 10.3, 10.4, and then the plane falls apart. This would have been a very courageous move if he'd been tasked with trying to determine what's the fastest speed the plane could take, but that wasn't the goal, or what was going to save the program. That's just destroying government property to get your kicks.

Sure enough, the movie plays it for laughs, but it's also a wink-wink to the audience that Mav maybe hasn't changed as much as the first movie suggested to by the end. And then, we learn that he probably thought he could get away with it because he's buddies with Iceman and he's the section commander or whatever the title is. Mav doesn't follow the rules more closely because he doesn't have to.

I could agree with most people not particularly caring one way or another, but not with the notion that it isn't an example of the changes in the first movie not really having changed him on a more permanent basis.

And - that's fine if that's the direction the filmmakers wanted to go in, but they also have to make a few viewers (at least I'm in this group) wonder if Mav was really showing signs of having grown by the end of the first movie or if he was just trying to get people to think he had, but was just hoodwinking them into thinking that.

Again, I can accept the filmmakers going in that direction, but it has to lead (if we're being honest) to reconsider what the ending of the first movie really meant for the character.

[Show spoiler]I didn't really feel Mav was any different in this movie than the end of the first one. Again if he really did mature massively in the first one and changed his ways he definitely wouldn't have buzzed the tower at the end, but he did.

However, I do think both the nose dive explosion and helicopter gunship attack survival scenes, while exciting and suspenseful, were overall unnecessary and detrimental to the movie sheerly because they were too over the top to be believable even for this movies universe, and seem to portray maverick as an actual real life superhero instead of a pilot.

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by Ruined

[Show spoiler]I didn't really feel Mav was any different in this movie than the end of the first one. Again if he really did mature massively in the first one and changed his ways he definitely wouldn't have buzzed the tower at the end, but he did.

[Show spoiler]I wouldn't say the first movie made you feel he'd made a massive change, but hopefully that he'd learned from the things that had gone wrong and that the whole experience might help to start him on a path of becoming a more mature person overall. And the final buzz? You can interpret that in a number of ways. You could think, "Well, he's just saved the day so maybe he wants to do it one last time?" or you could also think that he's just still trying to see how much stuff he can get away with. It's somewhat open to interpretation, to a certain degree, but you're supposed to be left with the overall impression that he has at least learned something.

Originally Posted by Ruined

[Show spoiler]However, I do think both the nose dive explosion and helicopter gunship attack survival scenes, while exciting and suspenseful, were overall unnecessary and detrimental to the movie sheerly because they were too over the top to be believable even for this movies universe, and seem to portray maverick as an actual real life superhero instead of a pilot.

Agreed, completely.

[John1701D]

What a dumpster fire this thread has become.

[StarWarsIsAwesome123]

A shame, really.

[John1701D]

First and foremost, I love movies and Maverick was a really good one. I also loved Eternals. And the Batman. This shit here is tiresome. If you didn't like it, say your piece and then

MOVE
THE
FUDGE
ON

[Farerb]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

Why is this thread a dumpster fire? For the most part it's a very cordial and respectful discussion about thematic development, characterisation, etc. I truly appreciate the insight some of the other posters have made. I have reconsidered one or two things about what we learn about the main character from both of the movies.

That's the goal of any civilized discussion - to consider points of view different from your own.

I'm saving this post for when Thor is released and you start your nonsense.

[StarWarsIsAwesome123]

[LordoftheRings]

The Box Office statistics ($money #numbers) from Top Gun 2 compared to all time best cash register flicks are simply mighty impressive and amazingly totally awesome ...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottme...de-box-office/

One billion dollars worldwide yes, it's in the pink piggy bank, no sweat (I knew that already from a while back), and same for the $600 million possibility domestically.
We are comparing Top Gun 2 with Star Wars best moneymaker flicks, Titanic, Avatar, Gone with the Wind here! I repeat: Top Gun 2 and Gone with the Wind!

Top Gun 3? You betcha; money is the number one rule of all rules...from the book of life and death, from the book of war and peace.

[LordoftheRings]

Three years, or ...

2 weeks - Total Recall - YouTube

[sandman slim]

Originally Posted by Flash3000

There's always one person who completely ruins a thread to the extent others hesitate visiting the thread anymore because when they do there's several more pages of constant, repetitive, damn annoying posts by that same person going on and on and on.

I spend most of my online time on Reddit now, largely because of people like this. There at least, the BLOCK function actually works. If someone is annoying enough that you block them, you never see them again. No posts, no replies, nothing; you block the offender & they vanish forever. Here, everybody keeps quoting them, so you end up having to see their inane ramblings anyways.

Originally Posted by StarWarsIsAwesome123

It also doesn't warrant all the spam in this thread.

Any thread with a certain person instantly becomes a spam thread. Then a certain person will go crying to the mods & get people banned. Then the thread gets locked & when it returns, everyone else's posts have been erased. The Doctor Who threads are ruined because of a certain person, this one is well on the way.

[levcore]

Really looking forward to rewatching this at home when the 4K disc gets released. This movie really is the absolute definition of a blockbusting crowd pleaser, the kind of movie everyone should see, even if you aren't a big fan of the first movie. It feels so old fashioned in a good way, really delivers the goods.

[Flash3000]

Edit

[MassiveMovieBuff]

My folks were planning on going to see this tonight for Father's Day but all of the showtimes were sold out for the time they wanted so they are going to try and go tomorrow instead. It's great that it's doing such awesome business!

[levcore]

Yeah this movie is a real phenomenon, no wonder paramount wanted to hold on to it to give it the best possible release date.

[Flash3000]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

Top Gun - Recall: Mission to Mars

BluBonnet - Stop trashing threads. You're on every page several times a day on this thread. We've heard you. Stop thread crapping. Get a life. Am I the only one completely annoyed at this Troll? I'm a quiet guy on this forum but man, enough is enough. Where's the mod's?