HDR Discussion Thread

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Don't you find it interesting that an quantum dot developer had this situation on display?

purely coincidental...

[Nothing371]

Originally Posted by PaulGo

I know the OLED technology has won many awards for presenting the best quality picture and even with its limited peak brightness that the ability to go totally black makes for a great picture but until OLED technology can overcome problems such as this I will never consider it.

LG embarrasses with OLED burn-in at SID tradeshow

LG's OLED TV on display in front of hundreds of industry associates at a prestigious industry tradeshow has shown signs of prominent burn-in, ZDNet has learned

https://www.zdnet.com/article/lg-emb...-at-tradeshow/

oh my god, that is hilarious!

[Geoff D]

Those are under extreme viewing conditions, let's be fair, with whatever content running on a loop on torch settings for several hours a day. But however better off it is under normal viewing habits & conditions I'm still not convinced that my own viewing habits would be burn-in free so yeah, I'm not going near OLED.

[Staying Salty]

Originally Posted by PaulGo

I know the OLED technology has won many awards for presenting the best quality picture and even with its limited peak brightness that the ability to go totally black makes for a great picture but until OLED technology can overcome problems such as this I will never consider it.

LG embarrasses with OLED burn-in at SID tradeshow

LG Embarassess with OLED Burn-In at SID Tradeshow

Please read this AVS thread for the truth.

[Fendergopher]

Embarrassing OLED article about burn-in on ZD(9)Net.

[Staying Salty]

LG Embarassess with OLED Burn-In at SID Tradeshow

May be I should increase the fonts and bold them for those who only read the head lines.

Originally Posted by D-Nice

Nanosys = Samsung. It’s a shame these same article reporters don’t know that.

Originally Posted by D-Nice

If you can’t beat ‘em, smear ‘em.

Originally Posted by D-Nice

Fact check...

LG owns the high end TV market. Something Samsung year over year has lost and is what THIS is about. They still don’t get the fact that they will never gain marketshare in the high end display market again until they have something more that LCD. This has been presented many times by myself and collegues that do consulting work for them.

Originally Posted by fafrd

In the premium TV market, which is the only segment where WOLED and QLED compete, Samsung's market share of Premium TVs has plummeted over the past 2 years while WOLED market share has increased to more than 70%: http://www.businessinsider.com/r-how...-market-2018-5

"The outlook for Samsung in premium TVs could worsen as 71 percent of sales this year are expected to be OLED TVs, up from 51 percent last year, according to IHS."

In terms of Nanosys' Samsung-esque efforts to undermine/sabotage WOLED at SID, methinks the IHS market share data translates to sales levels that are for below forecast: https://electroiq.com/2015/01/explos...tv-technology/

"quantum dot (QD) technology will become available in 2015, with 1.3 million shipping worldwide. Shipments of quantum dot TVs are expected to grow to 18.7 million in 2018."

Originally Posted by D-Nice

Irrelevant. I know exactly what was done as it has been done in the past. As not to insult Samsung, I’ll refrain from posting the details. Let’s just say this demo is not remotely close to real world usage.

I look forward to this year’s VE Shootout

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Don't you find it interesting that an quantum dot developer had this situation on display?

The source don't really matter, the end results do.

[Nothing371]

OLED can continue to have 9% burn-in/bad panel/failure rate and Samsung can continue with their mud-slinging, HDR 10+ nonsense, and overpriced LCDs.

this just makes me want a Z9F.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Those are under extreme viewing conditions, let's be fair, with whatever content running on a loop on torch settings for several hours a day. But however better off it is under normal viewing habits & conditions I'm still not convinced that my own viewing habits would be burn-in free so yeah, I'm not going near OLED.

Geoff, just for fun buy an OLED TV, keep your viewing habits intact say for 3-4 years, and after that period come back and share your results.

[IntelliVolume]

Of course, I won't know anything until my NU8000 set is installed and up and running (still waiting for our cabinet maker to come out and adjust our entertainment center to fit the new larger 65" screen; his schedule is ridiculously backed up), but I'm looking forward to putting my "overpriced Samsung LCD" through its paces and enjoying its brighter, sharper images compared to my Sony SXRD rear projection TV, at least.

We got our 8 Series Samsung at a great sale price, so I'm not necessarily seeing our purchase as a loss (again, I will know more once the TV is plugged in, connected and up and running...it's still in the box as of right now!).

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Nothing371

OLED can continue to have 9% burn-in/bad panel/failure rate and Samsung can continue with their mud-slinging, HDR 10+ nonsense, and overpriced LCDs.

this just makes me want a Z9F.

If we compare OLED from LG, Sony, Panasonic ... to QLED from Samsung and LED from others, we would find stuff that is not yet fully discovered. ...With time.
What is true today might also be true tomorrow; there is simply no guarantee.

There is more to HDR than meets the eyes.

[Robert Zohn]

Here's the comment I just posted on the article:

"It's true that image retention and even burn-in is more of a concern for all emissive display technologies, e.g. CRT, Plasma and OLED vs, the less susceptible back-lit and edge-lit LCD/LED and LCD/QLED displays. However with that said it's not easy to burn an image into any display, OLED included.

To burn-in an image into an OLED display you would need to leave an opaque static image on the screen for many hours without changing the content. For example, with an opaque static image on the screen without ever changing the content for two or more hrs per day for a week or longer or even 8 hrs per day for two days might cause some static images to burn-in.

Here's my respectful comments on this article and it's findings. First, we don't know if the residue of the long playing static image is image retention or actually burned into the screen. After using an OLED TV for a few hours with normal content any image retention goes away on it's own.

Second, my company sells all premium brands and models of TVs and we have sold thousands of OLED TVs and have never been told by any client that they experienced burn-in. Other than our educating our clients on how to avoid burn-in you can consider the following five reasons:

A) With normal use burn-in will not occur even when users play content with static images for many hours as changing the content reverses the static image residue.

B) All OLED TVs have a built-in pixel orbiter that helps reduce the effects of image retention. The pixel orbiter is a factory default, but can be disabled in the user menu.

C) All OLED TVs have "Pixel Refresher" program built-in that automatically runs when the TV has been on for 3 or more hours and when the TV is power off the "Pixel Refresher" program runs while the TV is off to remove all image retention and correct any screen uniformity issue.

D) OLED TVs are more susceptible to burn-in when they are brand new. The panel stabilizes after 200 hrs of use and burning in an image is more difficult.

E) For all 2018 OLED TVs LG added an automatic logo/static image dimming algorithm that gradually lowers the luminance level of static images to help eliminate the threat of image retention/burn-in. (I was surprised to see the exhibitor used a 2017 OLED TV against the 2018 QLED. If they selected the same model year for both displays we would likely not see any image retention.)

Please also consider that if it was this easy to get burn-in the big box store like Best Buy and the giant Amazon would have tens of thousands of returned OLED TVs.

Finally, regarding LG's swapping the OLED TVs for LCD displays at the airport; LCD displays should have been used from the start as the flight schedule with lots of static images is not a good choice for OLED. But all that does is prove the point that an abused OLED is likely to get burn-in. OLED displays are not matched for commercial static use. OLED TVs are for the discerning video lover when wants to see the very best image quality on their TV."

[LordoftheRings]

Robert, I appreciate your point of view, experience, expertise, dealership.

I am not an expert, I am only an average researcher. From year to year some improvements are made, in all display technologies, and yesterday is no indication of the future, but a learning curve, a guide, a tool for a better tomorrow.

I have talked directly with TV dealers from my area. They sure did mention customers bringing back their LG OLED TVs purchased @ their stores to have their panels replaced due to burn-in issues. And they sure direct their customers towards Samsung QLED TVs. I have zero clue on the percentage, none, just that they mentioned it.

This is no bullshit what I'm saying here right now, this is the truth.
And, I have zero bias, none whatsoever. I am simply reporting what I've just said.

I've seen a lot of TVs in stores, I own few myself. I have not enough personal experience @ this time to make a fair assessment. But in time I will. And what I know so far is irrelevant to the topic of this thread, or more precisely not important enough to mention here.

Emissive display technologies you cannot undo their pros and cons; and only time can confirm this with assertive definition. Plus all the variations on customer's viewing habits and level of acceptance or deception.

I keep both eyes wide open every day from way back yesterday, today and tomorrow.
There is no guarantee that yesterday's pros and cons will still be true tomorrow, zero guarantee, nobody can give us that, nobody.

[Robert Zohn]

@LordoftheRings, No one like disputing, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that we have sold more than 1500 OLED TVs in the past 5 years and I have never had any client tell me they have any burn-in.

Now I can't say that on a public forum and not be telling the truth as you would see at least one of my clients call me out. 1500 is a lot of OLED TVs to not have any experience burn-in.

Most importantly, OLED display technology has progressed significantly over the last 5 years and other than the improved image performance burn-in has been aggressively addressed and the 2018 OLED line-up with the logo/static image dimming has been the biggest deterrent to protect the panel from burn-in.

With all this said you do need to care for an OLED more than an LCD. So for example if you are a trader and watch MSNBC all day with the stock quotes scrolling across the bottom of the screen an OLED TV is not for you.

A proper break-in will stabilize the OLED panel and watching mixed content will give the user many years of exceptional entrainment.

[PaulGo]

I have owned Samsung AMOLED phones since the Captivate with no burn in but I have seen many pictures of phones with burn in. The LG phones seem to have the most problems.

[Adrian Wright]

I have the 2016 C6 OLED with burn in and this has not been abused or misused in any way, shape or form. Using the built-in LG YouTube App, I now have 2 rectangular buttons burnt into the lower right of the screen.

Granted, this can only be seen on solid Red / Pink / Orange screens but is annoying nonetheless. LG were useless and referred me to a third party repair company who quoted me £2500.00 to replace the panel.

This is a real problem with OLED technology and I suspect LG know this, hence why it is not covered under warranty.

[Staying Salty]

This burn in/image retention discussion has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. I would suggest that those who are interested in this display problem create a thread to discuss it. There are multiple threads on AVS discussing this issue so there is a great interest for this information. I just believe that this is not the thread to discuss it.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by gkolb

Penton, the great 23-ish day bicycle race starts tomorrow morning.
Any early picks for 2018 champ? What's the betting line?

Well I’m a little hesitant to jinx my perfect record of accurate early spot-on sporting predictions, e.g.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

....I think by having lost against Belgium, all things considered, it provides an easier path for England to get to the semis than if they were on the other side of the bracket.

Sure they have to play Columbia, but still personally, I'd rather be on that side of the bracket with the chance to go really far in the tournament.

(despite skepticism shown by other forecasters here on Blu-ray.com to England’s chances/pathway ), nevertheless, if you insist and since I’m an avid bike rider (having ridden even yesterday in over 105 degree temp. locally) I’d say that the winner of the 2018 Tour de France will be Chris Froome and if for some reason he’s not in form or has to withdraw due to injury or other health concerns, then it be whoever takes over leadership of Team Sky.

[Penton-Man]

Bike riders are good people , e.g. https://twitter.com/SonyDCinema4K/st...74849985089536

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Those are under extreme viewing conditions, let's be fair, with whatever content running on a loop on torch settings for several hours a day. But however better off it is under normal viewing habits & conditions I'm still not convinced that my own viewing habits would be burn-in free so yeah, I'm not going near OLED.

I can only speak to the issue with regards to personal experience. We have a 2017 consumer WOLED in our bedroom. It’s run probably a little more than 2 hrs./day with routine programming including occasional Ultra HD Blu-rays. No evidence of burn-in…..so far.

Several BVM-X300 OLEDs I've seen have the so-called pillar box burn-in as the result of working many hours in UHD rather than true 4K.

P.S.
Note to you vision bloggers out there, especially those who took the time to go thru these slides - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...i#post15199853 , to learn about image retention with regards to our HVS, google something like the words ‘palinopsia’ or not to worry - ‘physiological negative and positive afterimages’.