Starship Troopers 4K UHD (1997) (20th Anniversary Edition)

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Ben_UK

Can someone decipher the DV chats into plain english? From what I can deduce the DV HDR is static, is that correct? So its garbage?

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Will wait to view it in DV before throwing it under the Rodger Young.

[dlbsyst]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Will wait to view it in DV before throwing it under the Rodger Young.

Yeah, I just picked up the steelbook myself. Yes, an actual physical copy Geoff. What was interesting is they said their copies are going on the shelf tomorrow and I paid $24.99 for it and not $27.99 like it shows on the website.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Will wait to view it in DV before throwing it under the Rodger Young.

Well I watched it in DV last night.

It's still hella bright, but not washed out. It's also incredibly clear with every pore, freckle, scratch, and scar on the actor's faces easily seen. Of course the CG is a lot softer but still great. Model ship shots were also excellent, as were the black levels of space - with the exception of the sequence where the Rodger Young encounters the rogue asteroid, space got a bit gray there. Some shots of the actors against backgrounds were a bit fuzzy - the actors had a lot more grain than the backgrounds. Seems they didn't use VistaVision for the plate photography? It's still that period in the '90s where digital compositing was fairly new.

Atmos was excellent - and LOUD. I actually had to bump it down a couple clicks from where I normally set it. Neighbors probably weren't too thrilled.

[OSHAN]

Guess I shouldn't have bit.

[dlbsyst]

Originally Posted by OSHAN

Guess I shouldn't have bit.

I'm keeping mine sealed until Geoff reports back.

[Rollo Tomassi]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Well I watched it in DV last night.

It's still hella bright, but not washed out. It's also incredibly clear with every pore, freckle, scratch, and scar on the actor's faces easily seen. Of course the CG is a lot softer but still great. Model ship shots were also excellent, as were the black levels of space - with the exception of the sequence where the Rodger Young encounters the rogue asteroid, space got a bit gray there. Some shots of the actors against backgrounds were a bit fuzzy - the actors had a lot more grain than the backgrounds. Seems they didn't use VistaVision for the plate photography? It's still that period in the '90s where digital compositing was fairly new.

Atmos was excellent - and LOUD. I actually had to bump it down a couple clicks from where I normally set it. Neighbors probably weren't too thrilled.

Fair enough - sounds sweet to me! And my disc has cleared customs! Oh joy, oh rapture!

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Rollo Tomassi

Fair enough - sounds sweet to me! And my disc has cleared customs! Oh joy, oh rapture!

[Rollo Tomassi]

Thank you! I never actually saw Wizard of Oz, but I wondered where that line was from (always figured, it was something biblical), so that's one great weight off me mind!

[OSHAN]

Originally Posted by dlbsyst

I'm keeping mine sealed until Geoff reports back.

If it is just dialed down slightly, not as hot or harsh, in broken DV, I'll still take it. That was my biggest issue with the last release. If the broken DV has repercussions for doing this, well, that's obviously a bummer.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by OSHAN

If it is just dialed down slightly, not as hot or harsh, in broken DV, I'll still take it. That was my biggest issue with the last release. If the broken DV has repercussions for doing this, well, that's obviously a bummer.

On my set (Sony Z9D, the USA version of Geoff's) you can't tell DV is "broken". It very well may have been deliberate.

[OSHAN]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

On my set (Sony Z9D, the USA version of Geoff's) you can't tell DV is "broken". It very well may have been deliberate.

Good to know. C1 owner here ASBL disabled. Don't think that would kick in here, though.

[joo.peter]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

It very well may have been deliberate.

In the previous posts it has been analyzed that this release holds static DV, which is essentially a garbage DV.
It also means that the studio (Sony) went cheap at this time.
@TbeRw01:
"When the DV metadata is static like this BD, it's basically like having a static HDR10 video with a maxcll set to 650nits."

Also, what the hell is going on with these colors??
The DV is highly oversaturated, full of overblown highlights, distorted colors toward yellow.
But frankly it is such a shame, it is clearly a deviation from the 'artistic intent'.
I have never seen such a disaster among DV releases ever before.
Tested on: Dune HD Pro Vision 4K Solo + LG E6 OLED

So the question itself "whether the DV layer on this release is any good/better/etc than any other release?" is wrong.
Why?
Because this DV is incorrect/bad/wrong/defective on the first place.

@TbeRw01:
"The itunes DV stream has exactly the same static metadata."

I hope that Reset_9999 will update his XLS soon here:
See the "GRADE/MASTER CHECK" tab in the "List of DV movies from WEB streaming that should NOT be injected into the bluray remux" document:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...lUiLHU9n1f_S74

So there is no room for any other interpretations and further relativizations here.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance)

Case closed.

[lgans316]

Originally Posted by joo.peter

In the previous posts it has been analyzed that this release holds static DV, which is essentially a garbage DV.
It also means that the studio (Sony) went cheap at this time.
@TbeRw01:
"When the DV metadata is static like this BD, it's basically like having a static HDR10 video with a maxcll set to 650nits."

Also, what the hell is going on with these colors??
The DV is highly oversaturated, full of overblown highlights, distorted colors toward yellow.
But frankly it is such a shame, it is clearly a deviation from the 'artistic intent'.
I have never seen such a disaster among DV releases ever before.
Tested on: Dune HD Pro Vision 4K Solo + LG E6 OLED

So the question itself "whether the DV layer on this release is any good/better/etc than any other release?" is wrong.
Why?
Because this DV is incorrect/bad/wrong/defective on the first place.

@TbeRw01:
"The itunes DV stream has exactly the same static metadata."

I hope that Reset_9999 will update his XLS soon here:
See the "GRADE/MASTER CHECK" tab in the "List of DV movies from WEB streaming that should NOT be injected into the bluray remux" document:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...lUiLHU9n1f_S74

So there is no room for any other interpretations and further relativizations here.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance)

Case closed.

Going by the spreadsheet, the vast majority are good remux candidates which affirms my findings and praise for DV lol (perhaps coincidentally at times as I am no expert) and ST is in the bad boy list.

Btw, can you do Doctor Strange 2? The DV stream on iTunes/MA/D+ was noticeably better on my TVs over the HDR10 disc on HDR/WCG aspects. It drove me crazy at times. As always happy to be proven wrong.

[PonyoBellanote]

I am a huge Dolby Vision shill and it pains me that there's so much DV digitally that is not on disc. I was counting that one day hybrid remuxes would be a thing and they're now, but apparently they're not the real thing, and pretty much just HDR10+ under a DV name. And some mismatch or whatever technical shit. So any enhancement with these hybrids are just placebo and that is dissapointing.

That said, wether right or wrong, I feel those sheets and things are way too technical, so intricate, and I dunno if they tell much about the actual viewing experience.

[blueman_Richie]

I am dense so can anyone tell me if viewing the new 25th anniversary disc will be any different from the last release if I DON'T have the tech to take advantage of Dolby Vision?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by PonyoBellanote

I am a huge Dolby Vision shill and it pains me that there's so much DV digitally that is not on disc. I was counting that one day hybrid remuxes would be a thing and they're now, but apparently they're not the real thing, and pretty much just HDR10+ under a DV name. And some mismatch or whatever technical shit. So any enhancement with these hybrids are just placebo and that is dissapointing.

Streaming DV basically is HDR10+ under a DV name. There's no 12-bit enhancement layer, just a single 10-bit stream with the DV RPU parcelled in that's uprezzed to 12-bit via the Dobly engine. MEL DV discs are essentially the same thing, albeit with the metadata carried in a separate enhancement layer. Only FEL DV discs have a proper 12-bit output.

Hybrid remuxes using the disc's HDR10 encode combined with the RPU that's stripped out of the streaming version have been a thing for a while, and as long as the metadata is genuinely dynamic and it's properly matched to the main feature then it's basically the same as having a MEL DV disc. If that's a "placebo" then so is Warners and Sony's entire DV output on disc, as well as the system of delivering DV on streaming.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by joo.peter

[Show spoiler]In the previous posts it has been analyzed that this release holds static DV, which is essentially a garbage DV.
It also means that the studio (Sony) went cheap at this time.
@TbeRw01:
"When the DV metadata is static like this BD, it's basically like having a static HDR10 video with a maxcll set to 650nits."

Also, what the hell is going on with these colors??
The DV is highly oversaturated, full of overblown highlights, distorted colors toward yellow.
But frankly it is such a shame, it is clearly a deviation from the 'artistic intent'.
I have never seen such a disaster among DV releases ever before.
Tested on: Dune HD Pro Vision 4K Solo + LG E6 OLED

So the question itself "whether the DV layer on this release is any good/better/etc than any other release?" is wrong.
Why?
Because this DV is incorrect/bad/wrong/defective on the first place.

@TbeRw01:
"The itunes DV stream has exactly the same static metadata."

I hope that Reset_9999 will update his XLS soon here:
See the "GRADE/MASTER CHECK" tab in the "List of DV movies from WEB streaming that should NOT be injected into the bluray remux" document:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...lUiLHU9n1f_S74

So there is no room for any other interpretations and further relativizations here.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance)

Case closed.

Blah blah blah

I'm telling you what *I* saw, not some analysis of a rip (pirated?) on a Dune which has its own issues. Oh yeah, I know people with those and the latest generation is a PITA because firmware updates keep breaking things, including DV playback.

Colors wise it looked like Starship Troopers to me.

Your case is thrown out due to heresay.

[PonyoBellanote]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Streaming DV basically is HDR10+ under a DV name. There's no 12-bit enhancement layer, just a single 10-bit stream with the DV RPU parcelled in that's uprezzed to 12-bit via the Dobly engine. MEL DV discs are essentially the same thing, albeit with the metadata carried in a separate enhancement layer. Only FEL DV discs have a proper 12-bit output.

Hybrid remuxes using the disc's HDR10 encode combined with the RPU that's stripped out of the streaming version have been a thing for a while, and as long as the metadata is genuinely dynamic and it's properly matched to the main feature then it's basically the same as having a MEL DV disc. If that's a "placebo" then so is Warners and Sony's entire DV output on disc, as well as the system of delivering DV on streaming.

Color me impressed. I've always been told the hybrids are just kind of "fake". Personally I love them. But as you said.. it takes someone that knows shit to do it good, and I certainly don't. But I'd definitely buy legally DV movies to do hybrid remuxes with my discs and get the DV I'm missing. Doesn't seem like it's an easy task to do. And not all movies get to be hybridized :/

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by PonyoBellanote

Color me impressed. I've always been told the hybrids are just kind of "fake". Personally I love them. But as you said.. it takes someone that knows shit to do it good, and I certainly don't. But I'd definitely buy legally DV movies to do hybrid remuxes with my discs and get the DV I'm missing. Doesn't seem like it's an easy task to do. And not all movies get to be hybridized :/

Not easy, but possible. For movies that don't have any DV options available anywhere I wonder when we're gonna see people do their own analysis of the HDR10 stream to create homebrew DV metadata. DaVinci Resolve has (or had, I dunno what the later versions do) free Dolby Vision L1 capability, you can't set the trims manually but L1 should create automated min/avg/max metadata for every shot, which is betterer than nothing. Or maybe this is already a thing in the shadowy world of rips, remuxes, Dunes and Zidoos?

[PonyoBellanote]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Not easy, but possible. For movies that don't have any DV options available anywhere I wonder when we're gonna see people do their own analysis of the HDR10 stream to create homebrew DV metadata. DaVinci Resolve has (or had, I dunno what the later versions do) free Dolby Vision L1 capability, you can't set the trims manually but L1 should create automated min/avg/max metadata for every shot, which is betterer than nothing. Or maybe this is already a thing in the shadowy world of rips, remuxes, Dunes and Zidoos?

I've no idea. I'm just a fan. I personally don't think I can do shit with it, sadly. Because as I said I'd love to do me some hybrids. I'm a big DV shill. lol. As for DaVinci Resolve, doesn't it reencode the video or something?