Starship Troopers 4K UHD (1997) (20th Anniversary Edition)

[andreasy969]

I found another review on the old disc from 2017, which I guess was bullshit then?

Anyone on the fence needs to drop what they're doing and buy this bad boy NOW.

The detail increase is incredible, the blacks run deeper, the colour gets a wonderful boost in all the explosions and bug artillery, and the grain is gorgeous. Is it just a little too overbearing at times? I wouldn't disagree, but the overall appearance is so astonishingly film-like it makes the Blu-ray look like crappy hidef - I mean, I know it IS hidef but it looks smeary in that kind of video-esque way whereas the UHD is like having the 35mm negative in 5" form. Amazing. Simply amazing.

The movie has a very bright look so if the tone mapping is having to junk those highlights then it will look overly lit and blown out, whereas it looks superb on my ZD9 - not that the outdoor scenes in particular aren't plenty bright because they are, but they're not uncomfortably harsh and the highlights look terrific.

I love the look of the bug plasma in HDR, it's not enough to burn your eyeballs out tanker-bug-style but it adds a lovely touch of realism to effects which were already stellar (pun intended).

It's magnificent is what it is. But grainophobes will be left hiding behind their sofas.

Yeah, it's great. Buy it.

[sfmarine]

Originally Posted by Mosin-Nagant

Yeah, it looks like they all have better things to do than attend this reunion.
Casper Van Dien even seems to be looking at his phone, at one point...

The worst being on the Dina Meyer connection side: we are dealing with an image of her frozen most of the time. So frustrating!

Agreed. Michael Ironside just said "bye" and disappeared...LOL!

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

I found another review on the old disc from 2017, which I guess was bullshit then?

Not at all. It's how I felt about it then - I even thought about referencing it in the above review - but tastes change, I was still grappling with my settings on my new TV at the time hence not calling it a "review", and whenever I'd change something on the TV Troopers just ended up looking worse and worse re: the HDR and compression over the years. I don't like overly bright HDR anyway, I don't like middling compression anyway, two things which are both rectified (either deliberately or coincidentally) on the new disc so I'm a very happy camper right now.

[DAT_JB]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

If someone with a full-fat DV system could watch the physical disc - not any rips, just for argument’s sake - and report back then we’d know for sure.

Will watch it tonight and try to report back as "professional" as possible
Can't compare to the old disc though as I never had that. I have ASBL disabled whenever I watch films on my B9 but I will look for the general brightness levels which you mentioned and see how those are handled.

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Not at all. It's how I felt about it then - I even thought about referencing it in the above review - but tastes change, I was still grappling with my settings on my new TV at the time hence not calling it a "review", and whenever I'd change something on the TV Troopers just ended up looking worse and worse re: the HDR and compression over the years. I don't like overly bright HDR anyway, I don't like middling compression anyway, two things which are both rectified (either deliberately or coincidentally) on the new disc so I'm a very happy camper right now.

I do appretiate you taking it in good spirits.

[Kazuma-]

i see huge messages here in this topic. i'm late in this topic. are there 2 versions on the market of this movie? which one is the best?

the review of geoff is to deep for me, my english is not so good.

[Surge92]

Originally Posted by Kazuma-

i see huge messages here in this topic. i'm late in this topic. are there 2 versions on the market of this movie? which one is the best?

the review of geoff is to deep for me, my english is not so good.

Yes, there are two versions. The new 25th anniversary steelbook with Dolby Vision is the better one.

[lgans316]

Originally Posted by DAT_JB

Will watch it tonight and try to report back as "professional" as possible
Can't compare to the old disc though as I never had that. I have ASBL disabled whenever I watch films on my B9 but I will look for the general brightness levels which you mentioned and see how those are handled.

I would watch it on a high nit LCD TV with TV-led DV as that would be better comparison as far highlights is concerned in high APL scenes.

The ZD9 being source led for DV, mutes brightness and colours. DV via built-in apps can look super bright and colourful to the point it can feel like night and day compared to one fed via HDMI. This is why I seldom watch DV on ZD9 via HDMI.

[Monterey Jack]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Isolated scores can get caught up in requiring residuals for the composer/composer's estate, of all the things that tend to get dropped from one format to another they're the first to go. Obviously Sony were happy to pay for it the first time but have not bothered ever since. And yes, I have also retained the DVD for that exact reason.

Thankfully, I have the complete score on CD, so the isolated score was nothing more than a novelty. I let the 2-disc DVD go years ago.

[Kazuma-]

Originally Posted by Surge92

Yes, there are two versions. The new 25th anniversary steelbook with Dolby Vision is the better one.

is this because dolby vision or are there further improvements?

[Surge92]

Originally Posted by Kazuma-

is this because dolby vision or are there further improvements?

Yeah, basically the DV improves the presentation.

[DAT_JB]

Originally Posted by DAT_JB

Will watch it tonight and try to report back as "professional" as possible
Can't compare to the old disc though as I never had that. I have ASBL disabled whenever I watch films on my B9 but I will look for the general brightness levels which you mentioned and see how those are handled.

So I just finished this. The disc is beautiful and the sound, listened to the Dolby mix on my 4.1 (no center), packs a punch. Can't remember when I had that much going on in my surround speakers and the bass was pretty heavy though these Atmos mixes from Sony tend to sometimes have a bit too much going on for my taste.

As Geoff already stated in his review, the grain in the indoor scenes is VERY visible but it didn't really bother me. Outdoor scenes looked just perfect to me.
Brightness levels were perfect to me as well. I had zero issues with scenes being to bright or too dim. I have ASBL disabled when watching movies.

As noted, I never had the old 4K disc so I can't really comment about how much Dolby Vision helps here. I'm watching on a B9 combined with a UB450 so it's TV-led DV.

Anyhoo, great disc and fantastic movie. Never seen this before but I'm a huge Verhoeven fan so this was almost a given for me.

I'm off watching A Bug's Life

[BrandonJF]

Originally Posted by joo.peter

A very big thank you Geoffycat for your gargantuan, extremely detailed, and accurate review.

Seriously. Geoff's reviews are amazing. I can't ever recall seeing any better home media reviews ever.

[Survivorman]

I forced Dolby Vision on the X700 player and somehow it looks better than regular HDR10! So I guess I'll just watch this movie like that now.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by lgans316

The ZD9 being source led for DV, mutes brightness and colours. DV via built-in apps can look super bright and colourful to the point it can feel like night and day compared to one fed via HDMI. This is why I seldom watch DV on ZD9 via HDMI.

I have the Z9D and the Oppo 203. I don't find that at all and much prefer watching DV on disc (and other sources) - if only for the fact it goes into the proper mode automatically instead of me manually turning on the HDR10 calibated mode.

I also calibrated the DV mode as best I could as well. On some discs it's hard to tell a difference but it certainly isn't muted.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

No. I said or implied nothing about the Optimiser. All of those controls in the Panny player are disabled when watching DV, it has zero effect on what I’m seeing and the OPPO 203 plays it back in the same way on the ZD9: not clipped or nuked at all.

If someone with a full-fat DV system could watch the physical disc - not any rips, just for argument’s sake - and report back then we’d know for sure.

First, thanks for Geoff's review - I deliberately kept mine minimum because 1: I hate typing, and 2: I knew whatever Geoff posted was going to blow mine out of the water for content.

I guess you could say my review was the "TLDR" or "preview" version.

Second: isn't my Oppo/Z9D combo "full fat"?

[lgans316]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

I have the Z9D and the Oppo 203. I don't find that at all and much prefer watching DV on disc (and other sources) - if only for the fact it goes into the proper mode automatically instead of me manually turning on the HDR10 calibated mode.

I also calibrated the DV mode as best I could as well. On some discs it's hard to tell a difference but it certainly isn't muted.

D+, Netflix and MoviesAnywhere DV streams via internal app look noticeably brighter and saturated over the same viewed via external streamer or player (HDMI). One doesn't need to an expert here to discern differences unless the built in app DV is deemed broken aka not following the tone curve properly and over brightening.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by lgans316

D+, Netflix and MoviesAnywhere DV streams via internal app look noticeably brighter and saturated over the same viewed via external streamer or player (HDMI). One doesn't need to an expert here to discern differences unless the built in app DV is deemed broken aka not following the tone curve properly and over brightening.

EVERYTHING is brighter on the internal app. As soon as you go to the GoogleTV menu the mode changes and it gets hella bright. I had to tweak the hell out of the set to tame it. It's just wrong out of the box. And it's not the same settings as the HDMI 3.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

I do appretiate you taking it in good spirits.

Hey, there's no arguing with it. I said what I said and I'm not gonna delete the post or anything. IIRC at the time I was using my "4000 nit mode" for watching Sony UHDs which is just a fancy way of saying I'd reduced the contrast so it could resolve 4000 nits on a test pattern. This had the effect of dimming the image a fair bit which is what made Troopers look much silkier and way less aggressive first time around, but I stopped using that mode a while ago and as I returned to Troopers over the last few years using my main viewing mode (which properly tracks the PQ curve) it looked rougher and rougher. Ironically enough though the DV is making it dimmer anyway so I'm back where I started

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

First, thanks for Geoff's review - I deliberately kept mine minimum because 1: I hate typing, and 2: I knew whatever Geoff posted was going to blow mine out of the water for content.

I guess you could say my review was the "TLDR" or "preview" version.

Second: isn't my Oppo/Z9D combo "full fat"?

Nein! If the ZD9 is fed Dobly over HDMI then it's the low latency version regardless of the playback device.

As for what looks like what, I've not used any of the internal apps for viewing so can't comment on what the DV looks like there, although I'd be lying if I said I wasn't sceptical re: how much punchier it is. Not that lgans is telling porky pies, I'd just love to see what the respective settings are for the viewing mode(s) used for the apps.

It's also true that the DV is dimmer than my calibrated (as in, metered and measured) HDR10 viewing mode, and when porting that calibrated white balance across the DV just looks off, not so much the dimmer brightness but it's clearly undersaturated for colour and has a red push to the white balance. I *think* that's due to Sony using a different white point for DV so I 'perceptually matched' - a very fancy way of saying eyeballed - it to my calibrated D65 white point and upped the colour by a few points so that it matches the HDR10 for saturation.

There's a whole bit on AVS about how DV Bright on Sonys apparently ports across the white balance correctly while DV Dark uses this other bespoke white point and needs matching to the other, obviously the ZD9 only has one unnamed DV viewing mode but I'm inclined to believe it's nearer DV Dark if we had to give it a moniker, and that follows with the white point being off when I port my calibrated white balance across.

People will of coursh decry this as being wholly unscientific - though perceptual matching is an actual thing in pro calibration circles when dealing with the metamerism resulting from certain display devices - but at the end of the day there's something not quite right about low latency DV so I've matched the colour and white balance to the HDR10 baseline as best I can, and me being me I think I've done a rather good job of it! But when Stacey Spears finally releases the 2nd edition of UHD Benchmark then that'll have test patterns in DV so I'll be able to authenticate it properly. Can't do anything about the reduced light output but it's very much to my taste anyway and it doesn't make DV viewing look all dim and dark, especially in my always-darkened viewing conditions, it's just not as aggressively bright as my calibrated HDR10.

[JoseTheBae]

I found the discussion about this disc’s Dolby Vision metadata very interesting. Since this transfer appears to have a Minimal Enhancement Layer (MEL), thus lacking 12 bits of colors that future displays can recreate, what is the point of Dolby Vision here? If it doesn’t have dynamic metadata or 12 bits of color, what does Dolby Vision add that HDR10 does not?