HDMI 2.1: HDR Dynamic Metadata

[rroeder]

BTW some of the tech speak is waaaay over my head but I still read it sometimes and try to understand so I can be informed to make the best poss purchase. Most here are more than happy to answer questions too so you don't need to be an expert, I just like to watch my fav movies in the best poss picture and sound

[Funky54]

Originally Posted by rroeder

BTW some of the tech speak is waaaay over my head but I still read it sometimes and try to understand so I can be informed to make the best poss purchase. Most here are more than happy to answer questions too so you don't need to be an expert, I just like to watch my fav movies in the best poss picture and sound

That's what I'm doing too. Both as a consumer and when I install my own stuff. I actually sorta work in the industry in sales and most of this nerd speak is over my head. It changes so rapidly. I think the industry's needs stability right now though. I have yet to have a client ask any of these questions. But I do want to understand and make the best recommendations possible. Reliability is absolute key for me. New although cutting edge offerings, can sometimes burden the entire project with compatibility issues. We do Low Voltage Integration so 90% of my conversations are about lighting, shades and hiding audio no matter how much performance suffers from aesthetics being more important. But imagine haveing very large scale systems integrated involving weeks of programming, then have the perception of a HO to be we suck because a new HDMI cable is glitchy and the products are having trouble... That can cause other things that are macro or time based to be wonky.

Anyway, I'm going to wait until 2.1 is out and reliable before investing personnelly. You'd be surprised I'm starting to hear clients say,"You know this time I'm just going for big cheap TV's.. I'm tired of buying $5000 TV's only to have them out dated in a year" Its forcing me to spec mid priced solutions now.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Funky54

I am so lost its silly. I really like the look of HDR content... but there is so little. Now it seems there is all this other stuff that will likely change. I get (I guess) that physical media is at deaths door and my attention should now be on streaming. But what about the infrastructure for streaming 8k or all these formats? It's overwhelming. As a consumer, It makes me just say No to everything. If i cant buy with confidence a new format with matching TV, Receiver and Player and expect to enjoy the best quality for at least a few years, Why buy anything. I just updated to Atmos (only to realize after the fact that there is hardly any content) and that was expensive. I sold my oppo and am just using an old Sony Bdp and a LG 1080p plasma for now. Ive been looking at Sony XBR 850D TV's... now, I'm not buying anything. I wont buy anything more until there is some stability.

Not sure why you throw the death of physical media comment in there. There's way more HDR content on disc than on streaming, as far as I can tell. Discs are getting more niche but they're not dying and won't for a long time. Don't let the doomsayer throw you off, they've been saying the same shit for 20 years.

As for the rest, there is definitely reason to wait. HDR hasn't been solidified yet and has competing standards, plus a lot of TVs, even $4,000 TVs, don't meet 1,000 nits and such. You can have an amazing HDR 10 experience today, but if you wait you'll probably get better tech for cheaper. Of course, that's the same any time with technology, no matter what.

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Not sure why you throw the death of physical media comment in there. There's way more HDR content on disc than on streaming, as far as I can tell. Discs are getting more niche but they're not dying and won't for a long time. Don't let the doomsayer throw you off, they've been saying the same shit for 20 years.

As for the rest, there is definitely reason to wait. HDR hasn't been solidified yet and has competing standards, plus a lot of TVs, even $4,000 TVs, don't meet 1,000 nits and such. You can have an amazing HDR 10 experience today, but if you wait you'll probably get better tech for cheaper. Of course, that's the same any time with technology, no matter what.

Not so sure about that. Take Samsung for example. Their TVs this year, for the most part, are worse than last year, but far more expensive. The LG OLEDs are better than they were last year, but I believe they're slightly more expensive. Same thing with Sony's new TVs. The more they add to these TVs, the more they charge for them, and in some cases (Samsung's) they aren't even better than previous models.

[rroeder]

Originally Posted by Funky54

That's what I'm doing too. Both as a consumer and when I install my own stuff. I actually sorta work in the industry in sales and most of this nerd speak is over my head. It changes so rapidly. I think the industry's needs stability right now though. I have yet to have a client ask any of these questions. But I do want to understand and make the best recommendations possible. Reliability is absolute key for me. New although cutting edge offerings, can sometimes burden the entire project with compatibility issues. We do Low Voltage Integration so 90% of my conversations are about lighting, shades and hiding audio no matter how much performance suffers from aesthetics being more important. But imagine haveing very large scale systems integrated involving weeks of programming, then have the perception of a HO to be we suck because a new HDMI cable is glitchy and the products are having trouble... That can cause other things that are macro or time based to be wonky.

Anyway, I'm going to wait until 2.1 is out and reliable before investing personnelly. You'd be surprised I'm starting to hear clients say,"You know this time I'm just going for big cheap TV's.. I'm tired of buying $5000 TV's only to have them out dated in a year" Its forcing me to spec mid priced solutions now.

Interesting, there were a lot of handshake issues a year ago when the UHD format was introduced for sure. I've said it before but the HDR thing has been a mess, there were non HDR 4K tv's, HDR lite TV's, now a new HDR standard and Dolby vision. Seems like only those with the latest TV's that are properly setup are getting the picture as advertised.

I spent a lot of $ at the end of 2014 on a 4K tv thinking I would be good for 5 years, only to learn 6 months later that it didn't have the most important feature of 4K. There was zero talk about HDR(I did my homework) and 6 month's later that's all everyone was talking about

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

Not so sure about that. Take Samsung for example. Their TVs this year, for the most part, are worse than last year, but far more expensive. The LG OLEDs are better than they were last year, but I believe they're slightly more expensive. Same thing with Sony's new TVs. The more they add to these TVs, the more they charge for them, and in some cases (Samsung's) they aren't even better than previous models.

I more meant long-term. If you wait a few years for the HDR format war to be over and more nits to be in the lower end models then you would likely get a better TV for the price. However that's always going to be true. If you waited another three years after that you could say the same thing.

People are always worried about "future proofing" their technology but it's an impossible task.

[rroeder]

I agree waiting is better especially right now but if The Shining, Boogie nights, LOTR, Star wars etc came out I would be all over a new tv so it's more about why buy right now? for me

[Penton-Man]

Conversation from the first week in January....

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

When I stopped by the HDMI booth at CES to chat, I was informed that the new HDMI standard uses Display Stream Compression (DSC) compression Version 1.2 for...

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

I have read several articles on HDMI 2.1 and none of them have mentioned DSC.

Bringing thee info to Philly in April/May…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mc7W...tu.be#t=53m58s

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I more meant long-term. If you wait a few years for the HDR format war to be over and more nits to be in the lower end models then you would likely get a better TV for the price. However that's always going to be true. If you waited another three years after that you could say the same thing.

People are always worried about "future proofing" their technology but it's an impossible task.

True, but by the time the price comes down significantly on premium 4K HDR sets, there will be 8K sets.

[Funky54]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Not sure why you throw the death of physical media comment in there. There's way more HDR content on disc than on streaming, as far as I can tell. Discs are getting more niche but they're not dying and won't for a long time. Don't let the doomsayer throw you off, they've been saying the same shit for 20 years.

As for the rest, there is definitely reason to wait. HDR hasn't been solidified yet and has competing standards, plus a lot of TVs, even $4,000 TVs, don't meet 1,000 nits and such. You can have an amazing HDR 10 experience today, but if you wait you'll probably get better tech for cheaper. Of course, that's the same any time with technology, no matter what.

I'm not sure what I said to have you think I'm against physical media? I read my post again... I agree with you, I like physical media best. I have thousands of now obsolete blu-rays... that when HDR 4K versions start to be reissued that I'll likely break down and buy yet again... at least the ones I really like.

My comment was about the HDMI cable standards. I love HDR and think DV wont get any traction with physical content. I dont care if it does really. No I'm tired of the product compatibility issues. I wish the manufactures would agree to stick to say 2.0a for ten years and continue to develop updates on that platform. I get why a 2.1 or 2.2 might come out... I get the level of information. But it "hurts" the industry more than they might think to have it constantly changing. I met with a client yesterday who needs 43 TV's for his new home. In about 8 of those locations I would have encouraged all out solutions. He doesnt care about the money.. he feels cheated by purchasing expensive tv's and then having them be out dated. His comment (although true) was TV's are now such a commodity that he'd rather just budget to get new ones every three years and benefit each time by the technology increase. He literally told me to bid the very least expensive TV for each size and that he no longer cares. I didnt talk to him about what that would mean in relation to his AVR's. He'd be angry if 2 years from now he decides to get a great new 80 +" TV only to find he has to replace his AVR.. possibly hi Matrix switcher just to benefit by his New TV... He'll wait even longer.

The industry and science needs to evolve. I know they thin it means more sales by updating.. I just think they need to slow down that process a few notches... They're warring people out at this point.

[JoeDeM]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I more meant long-term. If you wait a few years for the HDR format war to be over and more nits to be in the lower end models then you would likely get a better TV for the price. However that's always going to be true. If you waited another three years after that you could say the same thing.

People are always worried about "future proofing" their technology but it's an impossible task.

You just have to pick your moment to jump in, and hope you can get a few years out of it. I agree you can't future proof, technology is just moving too fast. companies are driven by profit, and they want you to upgrade.

[Funky54]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

True, but by the time the price comes down significantly on premium 4K HDR sets, there will be 8K sets.

There was actually a price increase recently.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by Funky54

I'm not sure what I said to have you think I'm against physical media? I read my post again... I agree with you, I like physical media best. I have thousands of now obsolete blu-rays... that when HDR 4K versions start to be reissued that I'll likely break down and buy yet again... at least the ones I really like.

You said "physical media is at death's door." I responded to that. I never said you dislike it, I argued against your assertion it was about to die. It's not going to be mainstream much longer, but it ain't dying.

As for your comments about slowing down tech advancement, I do think it turns casual consumers off (and even me kinda!). However that's capitalism, you can't stop companies from advancing tech to make a new market for themselves and whatnot. At the end of the day it's the consumer who decides they want or need the next thing anyway, it's not like my last TV wouldn't have lasted 5+ more years if I didn't want to get real HDR now.

[Brahmzy]

The time to jump was when I did. When both TVs and AVRs truly had the HDMI2.0a/HDCP2.2 thing worked out. That's when DENON released their 2015 x4200w, for instance, and when Sony released the 940D. That set of a few months timeframe is what I waited over a year for and I'm getting the best bang for my buck. I warned others not to buy into non-hdr 4k sets and non 2.0a receivers. They didn't listen. The people and co-workers that did are happy as clams and while DV people who have been blabbering and waiting for well over a year now, us HDR10 guys all been enjoying fantastic 1080p upscaling on good TVs and native 4k content with gorgeous HDR.
There's definitely a time to buy and definitely a time sit out, been doing this a long time.

[blurayjunkie]

This is one of the main reasons that has me thinking back and forth (should I get a TV now or wait?). My 1080P TV of 8 years, died on me a few months ago, and since then I have been using a 24 inch 1080p PC monitor.


I have been getting the itch for a bigger screen 49inch. (its the biggest that will fit in the space that I have) I want to get a 49inch TV that's out now, but at the same time want to wait for one with HDMI 2.1 and all the bells whistles it comes with.

Ahh It is times like these I wish I knew absolutely nothing about television tech

[StingingVelvet]

There's always something to wait for, so it's sometimes best to just say f' it. Though given the state of flux HDR is in I think it's also wise to wait. Depends on the person I guess. If you do upgrade now(ish) I think the important thing is getting a set with the proper color volume and nits to display HDR properly.

[kristoffer]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

There's always something to wait for, so it's sometimes best to just say f' it. Though given the state of flux HDR is in I think it's also wise to wait. Depends on the person I guess. If you do upgrade now(ish) I think the important thing is getting a set with the proper color volume and nits to display HDR properly.

And Dolby Vision support.

[StingingVelvet]

Meh.

[Joce]

I'll wait until OLED TV's supports HDMI 2.1.

[batman2000]

what tv events are coming up that might talk more about tvs that have hdmi 2.1 support?