Still not convinced

[JoeDeM]

Originally Posted by Rocklandsboy

There is value in this thread. I hope it stays open.

The decision to upgrade, or not, to a new format comes down to more than money or opportunity. It comes down to questions like this:

If the hype over UHD and HDR is justified, does a person really want to have the experience of watching 1000-2000 gorgeous blu-rays (100 years of classic movies) tarnished just because they watched Smurfs 2 and it looks really pretty?

That's the curse of any "upgrade" and why one shouldn't become overwhelmed or obsessed by it.

Having said that, I absolutely do not buy into the hyperbole that blu-ray (of which 4K BD is an extension) suddenly looks "crap" or "destroyed". Hell even DVD doesn't look "destroyed".

The decision to upgrade or not is always tangled in emotions, it's very difficult to walk away from a perfectly good working setup, and invest in something new It's not for everyone, DVD still outsells Blu-ray by a fair margin, UHD will not sway those people away, but it will eat into the blu-ray segment probably much like 3D does.

UHD-blu-ray is still in it's infancy and will get better, these are the first few titles, and first player, and I think it can only improve as they learn to cope with this new format, and work some of the bugs out.

If you don't want to jump on that merry-go-round right now there is nothing wrong with that, personally I'm very excited for what's coming.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Rocklandsboy

Okay so I'm staring at my Amazon order page, poised to drop The Martian and Sicario into my basket. I put the BD editions in, removed them, put the UHD editions in (it's good to future proof right?), removed them, put the BD editions back in...

I'm just not sold on the concept/theory of 4K and, especially, of HDR...

It's a frequently discussed fact that most movies are native 2K or similar. Upscaling aaaaall of those movies doesn't feel right to me. Plus I have a lot of TV DVD titles and I don't much like the idea of them looking like crap (despite many questions in many threads nobody is keen to keen to answer what DVD looks like on a 4K display)

Where to start with HDR? Once you recover from threads that suggest no two films are the same and constant tinkering is required, you have to wonder how it changes the motion picture image. I've seen some comparison shots and the HDR images, while undeniably pretty, don't look like motion picture images. The format is still in its "wow" phase I guess, but when did it start to be okay to "treat" the image differently for home viewing?

Comments in the Samsung owners thread about the playing performing all sorts of automatic picture adjustments fills me with dread. AND I'm not a bit fan of LCD or LED screens (I hate clouding more than I hate banding) and OLED screens are just too darned expensive!

And then they announced a DE of The Martian. So buying the UHD now wouldn't be future-proofing at all! All in all a bit of a mess when, truly, regular old BD looks absolutely superb on my 42 inch Panasonic plasma!

BD had obvious advantages over DVD. The colour improvement was magnificent. The image stability striking. Hell, in the UK and Europe (PAL territories) it was the first time that movies were presented at the right speed! But this upgrade still feels loaded with fakery and gimmickery.

What a dilemma...

Well, you’ve certainly got me somewhere between frightened and depressed after reading that.

[marine92104]

You made me laugh out loud Penton-Man with your reply to that post.

It makes no sense. The UHD comes with the Blu-ray. I'd rather have a UHD & Blu-ray than a Blu-ray & DVD.

After reading that post it made me think of Chicken Little. The sky is falling, the sky is falling.

I love the phrase he keeps repeating with tinkering with a title. Even though it's been repeated time & time again that they're getting the director's involvement.

I was listening to the person that was over the new format development at Sony today talk about how they're trying not to add things in HDR that wasn't there before. They're just trying to improve the gap between light & dark along with a wider color gamut.

I remember when I first bought into Blu-ray how much better the color was than DVD but I don't remember anyone saying that Blu-ray was changing the intent of the director's vision.

The thing that worried me the most in that interview was when he was asked if Dolby Atmos would be on all of Sony's UHD title. His reply was does people really care or have people really asked that?

I think all of this will get worked out for people that are having a hard time with HDR in the future since films are being filmed in Dolby Vision with HDR.

As far as Samsung displays from what people are saying there are a lot of problems with HDR on them. Not all of their displays have the highest percentage of P3.

Sony is going their own way instead of going by the restrictions set for UHD premium. No one really knows what they are doing & by the interview he didn't really say what their criteria was for Sony's displays.

I'm glad I decided to do with the LG G6 that will do HDR10 & Dolby Vision. I'm trying to future proof myself for 10 years like I did the Pioneer Elite Kuro.

[infiniteCR]

Originally Posted by marine92104

I remember when I first bought into Blu-ray how much better the color was than DVD but I don't remember anyone saying that Blu-ray was changing the intent of the director's vision.

You don't know too much either on the subject. Once I researched the color back then I was surprised how mostly the same rec 709 was from 601(DVD).

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by marine92104

You made me laugh out loud Penton-Man with your reply to that post.....

Glad to offer some comic relief.

[Bryanc7982]

I am in the market to purchase a new 4k tv and player around October or November.

I know HDR 10 is implemented in the 2015 tvs. Will Dolby Vision be a firmware update or will this be implemented on the 2016 and beyond tvs? if you guys could help that would be great! I tried to start a new thread but since i am a new member it wouldn't let me.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Bryanc7982

I am in the market to purchase a new 4k tv and player around October or November.

I know HDR 10 is implemented in the 2015 tvs. Will Dolby Vision be a firmware update or will this be implemented on the 2016 and beyond tvs? if you guys could help that would be great! I tried to start a new thread but since i am a new member it wouldn't let me.

Nope you need to buy an actual Dolby Vision set, wait for the 2016 models

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Rocklandsboy

Plus I have a lot of TV DVD titles and I don't much like the idea of them looking like crap (despite many questions in many threads nobody is keen to keen to answer what DVD looks like on a 4K display)

This subject has been broached several times Rocklands, you've been looking in the wrong places:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...g#post11212075
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ghlight=dvd+4k
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...1#post11688701

[Five Inches]

I'm pretty sure my first UHD display will be a 32" ASUS monitor. I need a new one (out of two screens) but will probably go for QHD (first) because the UHD one is twice as expensive. Hardly anything I will watch UHDBD on though. Since I want 32" the options are limited as well.

[Bryanc7982]

DvdMike thanks for the info, the only company I see that's making one this year is either TCL (which I know nothing about) and LG, the LG Super uhd lcds seem like they are going to be pretty awesome. Fully backlit not edge lit plus both HDR 10 and Dolby vision.. Possibly future proof?

[marine92104]

Originally Posted by Bryanc7982

DvdMike thanks for the info, the only company I see that's making one this year is either TCL (which I know nothing about) and LG, the LG Super uhd lcds seem like they are going to be pretty awesome. Fully backlit not edge lit plus both HDR 10 and Dolby vision.. Possibly future proof?

As future proof as you're going to get. My LG G6 should be here in a couple of weeks. You're correct it does HDR10 & Dolby Vision.

[dvdmike]

[bruceames]

Fine, I agree they may not need HDR. But release them anyway. They can still benefit from the 10 bit depth, wider color gamut and of course the higher resolution. I hope they won't be afraid to release them without HDR thinking consumers are expecting eye candy or something (which they might if they get spoiled on HDR releases). I'm worried that with seemingly ALL the focus on HDR that this will become an HDR-only format and I don't think anybody wants that.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

...I'm worried that with seemingly ALL the focus on HDR that this will become an HDR-only format and I don't think anybody wants that.

[Jason One]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Fine, I agree they may not need HDR. But release them anyway. They can still benefit from the 10 bit depth, wider color gamut and of course the higher resolution. I hope they won't be afraid to release them without HDR thinking consumers are expecting eye candy or something (which they might if they get spoiled on HDR releases). I'm worried that with seemingly ALL the focus on HDR that this will become an HDR-only format and I don't think anybody wants that.

I wish you were right, but has there been a single announced title without HDR? I don't think so. It does seem exactly like it's becoming an HDR-only format.

[JoeDeM]

Originally Posted by Jason One

I wish you were right, but has there been a single announced title without HDR? I don't think so. It does seem exactly like it's becoming an HDR-only format.

it's still early in the game, the studio's are like kids with a new toy, I'm sure we will see non-HDR titles at some point.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Fine, I agree they may not need HDR. But release them anyway. They can still benefit from the 10 bit depth, wider color gamut and of course the higher resolution. I hope they won't be afraid to release them without HDR thinking consumers are expecting eye candy or something (which they might if they get spoiled on HDR releases). I'm worried that with seemingly ALL the focus on HDR that this will become an HDR-only format and I don't think anybody wants that.

I've said it before, I think they'll get HDR out of their system as far as catalogue stuff is concerned with the initial waves of titles this year (not that the effect is particularly extreme on most of Sony's film-based UHD titles released so far anyway) and then the non-HDR and/or older HDR catalogue titles will start to creep out.

They'll still have new movies with which they can keep the HDR flame burning bright (quite literally) but when more knowledge filters down to the UHD user base - who are already so used to seeing these ultra-clean ultra-dynamic UHD HDR presentations - that film grain and a non-eye-searing DR isn't A Bad Thing™ then I think the studios will be more confident in releasing such product.

[edit] Wind the clock back 10 years and HD itself was in the exact same position. The bespoke demo videos in store promised super-sharp super-colourful images round the clock and Blu-ray and HD DVD were initially tailored to that preconception, that everything had to be smooth and shiny and as far away from dat nasty grainy film as humanly possible. Just as it took time for people to understand that not every film will be a knockout in HD, the same will apply to UHD. "The more things change..." etc etc

[freedomland]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Just as it took time for people to understand that not every film will be a knockout in HD, the same will apply to UHD. "The more things change..." etc etc

Movies with a decent transfer or better(2k or 4K restoration) looks marvelous anyway, even those films with non eye-candy pictures. Haven´t seen not one good restored film on bluray that not knocked me out! Old masters from DVD-era doesnt count!

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by freedomland

Movies with a decent transfer or better(2k or 4K restoration) looks marvelous anyway, even those films with non eye-candy pictures. Haven´t seen not one good restored film on bluray that not knocked me out! Old masters from DVD-era doesnt count!

Sure, I still think regular Blu-ray is capable of absolutely stunning film-like imagery. But my point was geared towards the wider consumer conception of these shiny new formats, not for the smaller band of learned enthusiasts on forums like this.

[bruceames]

I'm sure you're right Geoff. Otherwise the catalogs are going to be almost nonexistent in the long run and we won't be seeing boutique or other small labels releasing catalog either (can't imagine Criterion titles with HDR). I'm looking forward to seeing some of those.