HDR Discussion Thread

[Waboman]

Hey you dang woodchucks! Quit chucking Pentons!

[Lee A Stewart]

HDR Could Help Drive Greater NextGen TV Uptake

https://www.tvtechnology.com/news/hd...tgen-tv-uptake

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

HDR Could Help Drive Greater NextGen TV Uptake

https://www.tvtechnology.com/news/hd...tgen-tv-uptake

Not if they can't sort out the tone mapping and/or people keep watching with the curtains wide open and daylight blazing in. The latter isn't an unreasonable thing for people to do, never said it was, but it's essentially death for HDR and things like Dolby IQ are fancy sounding names for an age old solution (pumping up the brightness) that is its own major compromise for watching HDR. But hey, buzzwords sell, I know from years of experience that people will be conditioned to need something without having a clue what it is.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Waboman

Hey you dang woodchucks! Quit chucking Pentons!

I’m currently trying to figure out what type critters live out back in the wood pile at 1:05 timestamp –

"Joe Pickett" - Official Trailer - Premieres December 6 on Spectrum Originals - YouTube

^ Joe Pickett series to stream at a later date on Paramount+. And Wabs, if that’s ^ not your cup of tea there’s always Xmas movies - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2dPp5yM-NA#t=4m14s

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Not included in the below promotional online clip, these behind the scene shots –



clip -
Top Gun: Maverick (2022) – Real Flying. Real G-Forces. Pure Adrenaline. - YouTube

Seems Top Gun: Maverick has a tendency to be mentioned retrospectively at least in passing, in many conversations, e.g. https://www.fdtimes.com/pdfs/free/11...50-Dec2021.pdf

To the bolded ^

Jay Ellis on Working with Tom Cruise on Top Gun, Peeing in a Fighter Jet & Oiled Up Volleyball Scene - YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Not if they can't sort out the tone mapping and/or people keep watching with the curtains wide open and daylight blazing in. The latter isn't an unreasonable thing for people to do, never said it was, but it's essentially death for HDR and things like Dolby IQ are fancy sounding names for an age old solution (pumping up the brightness) that is its own major compromise for watching HDR. But hey, buzzwords sell, I know from years of experience that people will be conditioned to need something without having a clue what it is.

https://patentimages.storage.googlea...70116963A1.pdf

, works for some –

What is Dolby Vision IQ and how does it work? - YouTube

[Geoff D]

Marketing video is marketing

[LordoftheRings]

The sign of times ...
▪︎https://www.notebookcheck.net/Samsun....584524.0.html

[Waboman]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Marketing video is marketing

PM is still dizzy from getting chucked by the woodchucks.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Marketing video is marketing

Yeah, I’d watch out for that dastardly Panasonic and PHL too -

Panasonic demonstrates Dolby Vision IQ & Filmmaker Mode w/ Intelligent Sensing - YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...r#post16639691
^ -> a follow-up regarding the AJA FS-HDR - https://www.aja.com/news/story/2018-...ith-aja-fs-hdr

Note that AJA Video will be at the still apparently softball-less upcoming Hollywood Professional Association Retreat 2022 - https://hpaonline.com/event/2022-hpa.../?tab=overview

Anyway, back to the show and just published is the Main Program. For readers here, the Display Mapping for Versions and Broadcast HDR sessions on Wednesday may be of particular interest –

HPA Tech Retreat Main Program

The main program at the HPA Tech Retreat sets the agenda for the year: what you need to know, who is pushing hardest on the problems that are holding back your work, what solutions and challenges are on the horizon. Curated by noted technologist Mark Schubin, the list below comprises an intensive education on this moment in our industry - and experiencing these sessions is an unequaled opportunity to meet the moment fully armed with the best, most current knowledge. The 2022 HPA Tech Retreat main program sessions are:

Wednesday, February 23
• Introduction & Technology Year in Review – Mark Schubin
• CES Review – Peter Putnam, ROAM Consulting
• Decoding CES 2022: The Consumer Trends That Will Impact the Media and Entertainment Industry – Mark Harrison, DPP
• Hub Not Home: Why New Ways of Working Aren’t About Covid – Mark Harrison & Rowan de Pomerai, DPP
• Remote, Mobile, and Live Workflow Innovation Updates – Moderator: Mark Chiolis, Mobile TV Group
• Media in the Cloud: A Reality Check – Chris Lennon, Ross Video; Renard Jenkins, Warner Media; Mike Strein, Disney/ABC; Mike Palmer, Sinclair Broadcasting; Shawn Maynard, Florical Systems
• Academy Digital Preservation Forum (ADPF) – Andrea Kalas, Paramount Pictures
• The Five Golden Rules of Media AI – Rowan de Pomerai, DPP
• The Creative Impact of AI-Assisted Color Pipelines – Moderator: Michael Chambliss, International Cinematographers Guild; Dado Valentic, Color Intelligence; Michael Gioulakis, Director of Photography; Von Thomas, Digital Imaging Technician; Maxine Gervias, Picture Shop
• AI-Based Video Codecs and Semantic Video Search – Rob Gonsalves, Avid
• ML/AI: Pitfalls, Progress & Opportunity – Moderator: Renard Jenkins, Warner Media
• AI - Winning Bet or Existential Threat? – Rich Welsh, Deluxe
• Broadcast HDR – Mark Aitken, Sinclair Broadcast Group
• Display Mapping for Versions – Kevin Wines and Tom Graham, Dolby Laboratories
• ASC Presentation of Standard Evaluation Material II - The Mission

Thursday, February 24
• MovieLabs Progress Report – Leon Silverman, MovieLabs
• MovieLabs Visual Language/MovieLabs Ontologies and Universal Pictures – Leon Silverman, MovieLabs; Horst Sarubin, Universal Pictures
• The Definitive Guide to Modern Cloudspotting – Michael Cioni, Frame.io
• Special Cloud Collaboration Editorial Project – Moderator: Dave Hoffman, Blackmagic Design
• What Does System Integration Look Like in the Cloud? – Dave Van Hoy, Advanced Systems Group
• Cloud & Remote Production – Coordinator: Seth Hallen, Light Iron
• Carbon impact of production – Cedric Lejeune, Workflowers
• ACES Roundup – Coordinator: Annie Chang, ACES Project Chair
• Color Processing with OpenColorIO v2 and the Academy/ASC Common LUT Format – Doug Walker, Autodesk
• Quality Control Across Multiple Grades and Displays – Amaury Louarn, Joachim Zell, & Ronan Boitard, Barco
• Test Patterns for Reference Monitors – Norm Hurst, SRI International
• New Pseudo-Logarithmic Function and a New Color Space for Encoding of High-Dynamic-Range Camera Data – Harald Brendel, ARRI
• SMPTE Update – Thomas Bause Mason, SMPTE
• Technical Foundations of Non Fungible Tokens for Video Engineers – Michelle Munson, Eluv.io
• Production WiFi Best Practices – Patrick Sumby, Sohonet

[Penton-Man]

I seldom complain about image quality with regards to particular shows because when I get home after a hard day, I’m so tired that after dinner all I want to do is kick back on the couch, veg out and not think….just get into the plot of this or that movie or show with my wife without nitpicking the quality and whining. However, since I see this morning that the thread titled ‘Worse quality control on 4K releases recently’ is near the top of the subforum totem pole and also that I viewed this behind the scenes promo clip on APV’s Youtube channel –

The Wheel of Time - A Look Inside Episode 4 | Prime Video - YouTube

I have to say that even when one is mentally and physically exhausted after a long day, there are significantly annoying magenta and cyan chroma artifacts in HDR as viewed thru AppleTV in this episode, not to mention compression artifacts in other episodes. Attention: Sitaraman (of the video encoding dept. at Prime), if you’re reading this and Wheel of Time was under your umbrella, please do something to rectify. You do have some bright scientists in your company working on teams, e.g. timestamp 6m31s in this presentation – https://www.twitch.tv/ie11-deprecated.html < if that doesn't go thru then copy and post the https://www. url twitch.tv/videos/1232455613 to a different browser

[Penton-Man]

Friday Flashback -
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...t#post19663013

Something else insider-ish behind the scenes like above ^ which folks won’t find on those social media sites like twitter, Instagram, tiktok, youtube analysis videos by retired fighter pilots or whatever newfangled social media sites have sprung up on the internet that I’m ignorant of their existence, because - they simply don’t know the definitive answer to Question #1 for sure.

I’ll post in terms of a multiple choice question and I’ll throw in this UHD BD as a prize to the winner, if the respondent resides in the U.S., as before - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post19585739 .This is a two part-er because if guessed at enough times, readers will invariably get question #1 correct simply thru the process of elimination of the multiple choice answers.

Question #1 –
Who in the first 30 sec. or so of the Top Gun: Maverick trailer is flying the fighter jet so close to the ground over the Cuddeback Dry Lake bed here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSqVVswa420#t=4s
A. a naval aviator
B. a Marine pilot
C. an Air Force pilot
D. Waboman on the wagon and finished clearing snow off his driveway
E. doesn’t matter, as it’s cgi, for nobody can fly that low! safely

Question #2
Name the Director of the very 1st film project (greater than 10 min. in duration) having the intent and thusly catering the principal photography to exploit the idea and value of high dynamic range to produce the first motion picture in HDR, albeit a short film, and who is now pursuing a Masters in Film and Screen Studies at Cambridge?

[Penton-Man]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgZQK7cfx_0#t=7m20s
reminds me, on a ‘how small our world is note’, back in the day before he became famous, Jim Cameron lived quite close to where Chris - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post16225098 once resided years later.

[LordoftheRings]

#1 question = A. A naval aviator

#2 question = Raafi Rivero?
▪︎https://ymcinema.com/2019/06/18/firs...ong-way-to-go/

[Penton-Man]

Sorry, good try for question #1 especially given the famous line in the bar from the original Top Gun, so that leaves 4 possibilities left. As for your answer to question #2, courageous, however also incorrect. I’m a bit surprised that Geoff D apparently also doesn’t know the answer to that question. I’ll offer an additional hint in regards to the answer to question #2 - the DP for the film I’m thinking of is a true animal lover and occasionally brought his beloved dog to shoots to watch over the proceedings and last shot on the original Venice as opposed to the new Venice 2 –

VENICE 2 Launch & First Reactions: Behind the Scenes at ASC Headquarters - YouTube

[LordoftheRings]

With the good tips you just gave us above I let someone else get the correct answers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljVY...ature=youtu.be

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

With the good tips you just gave us above I let someone else get the correct answers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljVYMs3s-B4#t=4m10s

With regards to that ^ selective excerpt (by me) of the famous line “That’s right, a…” , even though the JPALS system has made the task less dangerous, personally, I don’t think it gets much cooler than to begin an upcoming feature motion picture showing –

[Show spoiler]landings on https://science.howstuffworks.com/aircraft-carrier4.htm with the respective danger zone background music playing.

Anyway, kudos for already giving it a try and if you’re hesitant to continue, Staying Salty should be able to whittle down question #1 to the correct answer in short order.

As for yet another hint to question #2 - the DP chosen by the now academically involved Director of this queried first intended HDR film from the get-go was the same DP, who a year earlier in 2014 on yet another film (feature, this time), made, in my opinion, the correct calculated trade-off decision (given his shooting with a wide gamut and dynamic range 4K 16 bit camera and exploiting that capability with his imagery) that due to bandwidth constraints at the post facility, chose to employ a 16-bit OpenEXR color managed file format during the DI color grading rather than opting to finish in 4K with a 10-bit DPX type file pipeline, the process often utilized by other filmmakers, knowingly or unknowingly, at the time when in fact -

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

You need a workflow to protect that high dynamic range which the cinematographer (hopefully) has provided you. Traditional 10 bit DPX post house workflow is not enough to harvest all the dynamic range from modern digital cameras or Vision 3 stock for those who still shoot film….

Regarding best practice for a DI workflow? That be 16 bit OpenEXR ….starting from 16bit RAW digital camera imagery,

[LordoftheRings]

Pedro Moreira is a self-taught photographer from Portugal; he took that ultrawide shot ^ from what kind of camera?
_____



Fabio Mirulla from Tuscany captured this image ^ with a Canon EOS R5 and 35mm f/1.4L II.
Look @ the dynamic range.

[DisplayCalNoob]

Originally Posted by pawel86ck

Home comparisons on uncalibrated displays suggests wrong ideas when it comes to HDR (because it looks like HDR is too dark, while SDR overblown).

Here's some great article about HDR that would not confuse people

http://www.lightillusion.com/uhdtv.html

And picture comparison SDR vs HDR on calibrated HDTV's. As anyone can see, on calibrated displays average brightness levels looks similar (not like in these "home" comparisons).

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/4k-vs-201604104279.htm

Great reads indeed, but learning that Dolby Vision metadata does not include MaxFall and MaxCLL, was a surprise after reading a doc for content creators. In fact, the two were created specifically for HDR10 by Dolby.

What is DV without the base layer or is the base layer just MaxFaLL and CLL, then DV a capable TV would ignore the base layer meta data.

The APL differences are appearing between HDR and SDR, some Disney content, Black Widow and the Hawkeye series show higher APL in daytime scenes.