HDR Discussion Thread

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

A Fox movie with a director and producer who want to push innovation. Almost looks like a lock for HDR10+ on disc.

Why?

I can see Cameron pushing for Dolby Vision on disc, he would not want to be limited to 10-bit color when 12-bit is available. He still also makes sure his discs are THX certified.

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Why?

Fox's relationship with Samsung.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

Fox's relationship with Samsung.

James Cameron has approval over his video transfers.

[HeatEquation]

I'm sure he does.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

I'm sure he does.

Point is if he can get THX on there, he can get DV.

Heck, he was able to get T2 released in 3D theatrically - and 3D re-releases are a dead market now.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

....fellow Blu-ray.com member David M. was there.

And, as for other calibrators present, I think that Kevin M. (https://hdguru.com/expert-new-tvs-re...gs/#more-20866 ) did well without getting overly technical e.g. http://www.tandfonline.com/action/cookieAbsent given the assembled audience.

He’s certainly come a long way regarding his knowledge on the topic of ambient lighting and HDR since Day1 of the 2014 Value Electronics shootout as you will recall during the ending Q&A if Robert Z. still has that old unedited shootout footage available online thru YouTube.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

technical e.g. http://www.tandfonline.com/action/cookieAbsent given the assembled audience.

If that ^ link doesn’t go thru for everyone then try googling…. Optimum perceived-brightness level considering the practical use environment Journal of Information Display.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

James Cameron

Little known fact to SoCal’ers from north Orange County – back in the day before becoming a famous Director, James Cameron drove the food truck for the Brea Olinda food department

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Point is if he can get THX on there, he can get DV.

Heck, he was able to get T2 released in 3D theatrically - and 3D re-releases are a dead market now.

I highly doubt he'd fight Fox for an extra 2 bits. He's not insane.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

I highly doubt he'd fight Fox for an extra 2 bits. He's not insane.

I don't think Fox is as vested in Samsung as you might.

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

I don't think Fox is as vested in Samsung as you might.

I guess you haven't heard of the Fox Innovation Lab, and Samsung's role in it. They've had a partnership since 2013. Fox has used Samsung SUHD TVs as color grading monitors:

SAMSUNG & 20th CENTURY FOX: Changing the Home Entertainment Landscape I SUHD TV - YouTube

Now they want to work with Samsung to create HDR reference monitors based on Samsung's QLED technology.

They've both collaborated on numerous 4K and HDR projects, among other unrelated ones, over the years.

Samsung premiered cinema LED displays a few months ago, and they'll no doubt want to bring HDR10+ to theaters as well.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

I guess you haven't heard of the Fox Innovation Lab, and Samsung's role in it. They've had a partnership since 2013. Fox has used Samsung SUHD TVs as color grading monitors:
Now they want to work with Samsung to create HDR reference monitors based on Samsung's QLED technology.

They've both collaborated on numerous 4K and HDR projects, among other unrelated ones, over the years.

Samsung premiered cinema LED displays a few months ago, and they'll no doubt want to bring HDR10+ to theaters as well.

And they currently use DV in theaters.

[blu225]

I had a few questions about hdr. What does hdr to sdr on 4k blu ray players do . What image are you seeing on the non hdr tv. And should you keep your video settings on the tv what you already have it on to see these benefits. If I got a player that does the conversion how will I know by looking at the tv while I activate the feature that it is working on my tv? Is it a big difference quality wise from a 4k blu ray player that doesn't do this feature. I have Samsung k8500. Don't think this player does hdr to sdr. I don't mind getting the Sony player for that. But will it be a big difference?

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

And they currently use DV in theaters.

But not on disc. Plenty of movies are released in Dolby cinemas without getting DV on disc.

[Penton-Man]

Where’s Geoff , are you sober yet?

You handle blu225’s query and during my lunch break before I depart for 4th of July holiday weekend. I’ll post some insight as to the value of this announcement from Sony Europe regarding HLG…. http://sony-eur-eu-en-web--eur.custh...il/a_id/141169 in conjunction with the article about Kev’s presentation which I linked above from the QLED and HDR10 local event.

[Penton-Man]

^ I’ll forgive if you’re catching up with Confed Cup matches…..as of last night I’m only up to halftime of Portugal v. Chile…..haven’t even gotten to Germany Mexico yet.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

https://hdguru.com/expert-new-tvs-re...gs/#more-20866

But…..HLG proponents would argue that with the PQ EOTF (of which HDR10, HDR10+ and Dolby Vision all are based upon), in order to make the image brighter for typical home viewing environments, you have to stretch the signal. If you don’t stretch the blacks you won’t see shadow in the details. So, as you try to stretch the blacks in PQ, the Weber (for definition of Weber contrast see Lecture 2 http://www.jennyreadresearch.com/201...visual-system/ )
plot moves to the right.




The Weber fractions increase and so as you stretch the PQ signal you’re more likely to see quantization artifacts in those low lights because quantization steps which were invisible in the dark images become more visible as the image gets brighter.

On the other hand, HLG was designed to be viewed in a wide range of environments (light controlled home theater, dim evening living room, bright daytime living room, etc.) on a wide range of brightness screens. And as the display gets brighter the Weber curve also shifts to the right



however, the artifacts in the low lights don’t become visible (in fact the banding performance improves slightly with higher nit capable displays) sooooo,

the contention is that HLG is more suitable than PQ to viewing on brighter displays in brighter environments, not just in reference viewing environments.

[Penton-Man]

Heat, hang in there with Peter as he’s a tough debater.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by blu225

I had a few questions about hdr. What does hdr to sdr on 4k blu ray players do . What image are you seeing on the non hdr tv. And should you keep your video settings on the tv what you already have it on to see these benefits. If I got a player that does the conversion how will I know by looking at the tv while I activate the feature that it is working on my tv? Is it a big difference quality wise from a 4k blu ray player that doesn't do this feature. I have Samsung k8500. Don't think this player does hdr to sdr. I don't mind getting the Sony player for that. But will it be a big difference?

So many questions! All players have an SDR converter, even the Samsung (it will activate the SDR conversion when it detects a non-HDR TV). But not all converters are equal, I think most make the mistake of trying to force the image into a regulation flat gamma whereas the Panasonic conversion has a unique curve that's not gamma, it's not true HDR, it's somewhere in-between. What it does is allow a true flavour of HDR's expanded range to be seen, I was super impressed with how much better converted UHDs looked than Blu-rays BUT I had to keep my TV settings very close to my actual SDR ones otherwise things like grain and banding were very, very obvious.

However, the improvments that I saw are in the eye of the beholder, most people would walk away thinking "is that it?" whereas I can appreciate the differences and improvements that I was getting.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

So many questions!

^ paying the kindness forward to Geoff with a link wrt cinematography -
http://www.panavision.com/bill-popes...ion-under-hood

for

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

...Baby Driver….
Baby Driver Trailer #1 (2017) | Movieclips Trailers - YouTube