HDR Discussion Thread

[OI8T12]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Dude, I'm not a pro but I've been writing reviews long enough (over 12 years now) to know how pathetic the situation is for online journos in an age when everyone and their granny has a blog/youtube channel/whatever to espouse their views and can become an instant expert ( ). I honestly don't know why I even bother with the reviews as we very rarely get screeners for the big releases (that's just for BD, never mind 4K) and I reach more people with my posts on here than I do over there. But I never got paid before and I sure as hell ain't getting paid now so I might as well keep clattering away on my keyboard.

That doesn't stop What Hifi from being shitkicking buffoons of the highest order, though.

And we thank you Geoff, for all of your contributions to this great forum. I get all of my knowledge from you and a few other experts just by reading some of these threads. Keep up the good work.

[DanBa]

Originally Posted by Lineproduct

Just to reiterate for those unaware, Paul Williams of Panasonic and Vincent Teoh have confirmed that HDR10+ works over HDMI with HDMI 2.0b. HDMI 2.1 is not required.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-hi...l#post54128881
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-hi...l#post54757846


According to Jeff Park, Director of Technology at HDMI LA, a HDMI 2.0a/2.0b => HDMI 2.1 firmware upgrade is possible if the HDMI chipset was designed to be upgradable.
https://cepro.ehmedia.co/webinar-confirmation11710499


The HDMI 2.1 features are:
http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_1/
. Dynamic HDR (i.e. transmission of SMPTE ST 2094 dynamic metadata across HDMI)
. eARC
. VRR
. 48 Gbps (4K@120 HFR, …).


According to Rob Tobias, CEO & President at HDMI LA, all features in HDMI 2.1 are optional.




For example, Microsoft will certify the Xbox One X Project Scorpio for HDMI 2.1 VRR when the HDMI 2.1 spec is finalized.






Marantz can certify the new Marantz AVRs for HDMI 2.1 eARC when the HDMI 2.1 spec is finalized.
"eARC (Enhanced Audio Return Channel) supports the transmission of 3D audio from your TV apps with a single HDMI connection for the simplest setup. This feature will be enabled via a future firmware update."
http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pa...oductId=SR7012


High-end TV makers can commit to upgrade to HDMI 2.1 "Dynamic HDR", i.e. transmission of ST 2094-10 dynamic metadata of ST 2094 compliant Dolby Vision, ST 2094-20/30 dynamic metadata of Technicolor HDR or ST 2094-40 dynamic metadata of HDR10Plus across HDMI.

High-end TV makers can support all operational and being standardized (i.e. via committed upgrade) HDR formats: a win-win for consumers and HDR TV makers.

[d514]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

http://www.businesswire.com/news/hom...y-Latest-Ultra

That explains the additional test channels that appeared on Astra 19.2 (Astra is SES) a few days ago. There are the channels:
HDR tests, HFR tests, SES tests and VR tests.

On VR tests I just get audio. HDR tests is UHD with HDR but again there is no way of telling what kind of HDR it is. HFR tests is UHD with up to 100 fps - according to the text displayed. But my Samsung doesn't seem to recognize it. Again, no way of telling what fps the TV displays. But it doesn't look like HFR to me. SES tests are actually two channels. One is UHD with some kind of HDR the other is a demo from Technicolor HDR. But that one didn't look right either and disappeared a few minutes later. Maybe they turn it off when IBC closes.
Of course there is also the typical SES Ultra HD Demo Channel with HDR that's been there for months. You can see two of those channels in the background of this video:
https://twitter.com/SES_Satellites/s...10559025127425

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by d514

That explains the additional test channels that appeared on Astra 19.2 (Astra is SES) a few days ago. There are the channels:
HDR tests, HFR tests, SES tests and VR tests.

On VR tests I just get audio. HDR tests is UHD with HDR but again there is no way of telling what kind of HDR it is.

Thankyou, at last we've found someone who saw it!

I understand that the TV didn't tell you much information. But you are saying that for the non-High Frame-Rate test, it worked ok? You could see working HDR? This was allegedly the HDR10Plus test. And we still don't have a test clip file we can share

[d514]

Yes, one of those channels is probably the HDR10+ test. But isn't there a standard HDR10 layer under it? Maybe the TV is just using that HDR information and is ignoring the + layer?

[Staying Salty]

http://www.fiercecable.com/broadcast...pte-st-2094-10

One of the new use cases for Dolby Vision that the company is testing is live HDR broadcast, for which companies typically look toward HLG. But Dolby is arguing that Dolby Vision can be used for live broadcast.

For that purpose, Dolby now has developed an engine capable of generating Dolby Vision dynamic metadata in real-time, and the company working with its partners on integrating it. Dolby has been taking live broadcast truck workflows and adding a 10-bit PQ signal at the output, which then has the dynamic metadata generating for it and is encoded as Dolby Vision into a bitstream which is sent either through an IP network, satellite and terrestrial. The signal is then sent to a set-top box which can then receive and output on a Dolby Vision TV.

[IronSoldier]

I think another point to bring to this is what would sell the a customer... They'd prefer to hear Dolby Vision as it has the name Dobly... a name that means something or they've seen on products/cinema before. HDR 10+ just sounds meaningless/too technical for a lot.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Staying Salty

http://www.fiercecable.com/broadcast...pte-st-2094-10

One of the new use cases for Dolby Vision that the company is testing is live HDR broadcast, for which companies typically look toward HLG. But Dolby is arguing that Dolby Vision can be used for live broadcast.

For that purpose, Dolby now has developed an engine capable of generating Dolby Vision dynamic metadata in real-time, and the company working with its partners on integrating it. Dolby has been taking live broadcast truck workflows and adding a 10-bit PQ signal at the output, which then has the dynamic metadata generating for it and is encoded as Dolby Vision into a bitstream which is sent either through an IP network, satellite and terrestrial. The signal is then sent to a set-top box which can then receive and output on a Dolby Vision TV.

There were DV live tests carried out at the French Open tennis earlier in the year. (I didn't click on your link, just in case that's what it's referring to.)

[Staying Salty]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

There were DV live tests carried out at the French Open tennis earlier in the year. (I didn't click on your link, just in case that's what it's referring to.)

"The trial was conducted at the ATSC 3.0 test station in Cleveland with partners Triveni Digital, the National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) and Tribune Broadcasting."

[puddy77]

Sony introduced 3 semi-pro camcorders with HLG recording. And they're branding HLG as "Instant HDR."

https://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/mkt-br...t-4kpalm.shtml

[DanBa]

https://twitter.com/Nebul2/status/909728762983575552

[Geoff D]

Is it sad that I know what each and every one of those refers to?

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Is it sad that I know what each and every one of those refers to?

Only sad if we meet every week for discussion group to combat "HDR" illness.

[Geoff D]

Hello, I'm Geoff and I'm a HDRaholic.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

IBC in Amsterdam

The press corps and freelancers probably have hit all the highlights of IBC 2017 by now. So, on a personal note, more uniquely and certainly not covered by reporters AFAIK, my wife and I spent a pleasant evening for a change away from all the intense promotional activity at the conference with a couple of computational neuroscientists.

For the sake of Shalashaska -

Originally Posted by Shalashaska

I appreciate this thread and the posters in it very much, despite the fact that I really have no clue what's going on here most of the time.

and perhaps some other readers who might not understand what I’m talking about, I’m referring to neural coding principles and harnessing them to create compelling entertainment experiences like that of the HDR fire sequence effect as discovered and well described by Dolby’s chief scientist - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAQssFJ6BuA#t=16m07s

It would be intriguing if the Office of the CTO at Dolby, for instance, took the next ambitious step and rented or purchased their own fMRI unit and outfitted it with an HDR screen in the bore of the MRI scanner in order to do simultaneous EEG and fMRI analysis and application for further advanced research into delivering even more immersive imagery rather than only using their purchased thermal camera and EEG cap (http://www.gtec.at/Products/Electrod...Specs-Features ) as monitoring materials for observers viewing HDR motion picture images.

The research work regarding experiments in biophysical labs may sound like voodoo or inconsequential to some readers, but remember back in 2013, before anyone was talking about it (outside of some standards organization’s working groups, e.g. https://www.itu.int/md/R12-WP6C.AR-C-0052/en <- that’s an 80+ page detailed history-making draft for those without qualified access), when I alerted folks to the emergence of publication a new transfer function, ST 2084 - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ar#post9754213 ? Point being, what viewers get in future years is the result of what senior staff scientists and developers do in their labs way before you hear about it presented publicly at trade shows geared toward visceral commercialism.

Without these select bright-minded men and women with their ideas, nothing significantly evolutionary would be coming to consumers….only marginal improvements in devices overhyped by the marketing depts.

So, place computational neuroscientists and neurophysiologists among the imaging elite, along with the valuable video processing research engineers like Scott, Timo -
https://talks.stanford.edu/scott-daly-timo-kunkel/

and Li - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...i#post12582945

Very nice to have engaged in relaxed, thoughtful conversation at IBC with a couple pioneers (neuro folks) truly at the technological cutting edge in the quest for making make-believe movies appear and feel more believable. I hope to see their work with continuing discoveries eventually published.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Dude, I'm not a pro but I've been writing reviews long enough (over 12 years now) to know how pathetic the situation is for online journos in an age when everyone and their granny has a blog/youtube channel/whatever to espouse their views and can become an instant expert ( ). I honestly don't know why I even bother with the reviews as we very rarely get screeners for the big releases (that's just for BD, never mind 4K) and I reach more people with my posts on here than I do over there. But I never got paid before and I sure as hell ain't getting paid now so I might as well keep clattering away on my keyboard.

That doesn't stop What Hifi from being shitkicking buffoons of the highest order, though.

Geez Geoff, after that ^ I guess you don’t have to wonder about getting an invitation to their next Christmas Holiday party.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by OI8T12

And we thank you Geoff, for all of your contributions to this great forum. I get all of my knowledge from you and a few other experts just by reading some of these threads. Keep up the good work.

Yes, Geoff often does step up as a worthy contributor to help out, so kudos for that. I must confess I don’t get around to other threads much at all (prioritizing my limited time) so I might be missing some of his insights/advice offered in other forum discussions.

To be fair-minded, I do think some outside hobbyist forums also have a handful of excellent contributors, for example, WiFi-Spy and EvLee over at AVS…… http://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post54446049

Nevertheless, not to toot our horn too much , but time and time again it’s been proven that Blu-ray.com’s HDR discussion thread is a wee bit ahead of the general online pack…..https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...m#post13759568

and genuinely connected to the material as well as content creators in the trenches…..https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post13192703 as compared to those who tend only have access to company personnel marketing this or that device, ad nauseam.

[Penton-Man]

Epilogue to last April’s premonition here

Ultimately, attendees did see it at IBC 2017 -



Significant take home concept expressed a year ago, but important enough to reiterate - the amount of temporal resolution you gain with HFR acquisition and display is greatest when covering objects/people moving combined with camera pans…..https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post12538262 .

Pierre Routhier (https://www.digitaltroublemaker.com/training) will be speaking more about the benefits of increased temporal resolution, HDR, etc. at the upcoming SMPTE 2017 Annual Technical Conference & Exhibition next month in Hollywood (registration is now open).

[Penton-Man]

Been there - https://twitter.com/UHD4k/status/909042120765448193
Done that, last April, here in conversation with Dan .

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by IronSoldier

I think another point to bring to this is what would sell the a customer... They'd prefer to hear Dolby Vision as it has the name Dobly... a name that means something or they've seen on products/cinema before. HDR 10+ just sounds meaningless/too technical for a lot.

Or about a name like DTS:X, or Auro-3D, or THX, or HD Fury, or Laser Vision, or Logic 7, or ...