HDR Discussion Thread

[CRMA]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

Get the M9500 or M8500. They already support HDR10+ via streaming, and there's a chance they could support HDR10+ via disc playback as well. Or just wait until the 2018 players are announced.

Who supports HDR10+ on streaming right now?
TIA

[CRMA]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Nearly all studios support DV, in either streaming or disc or both.

One studio has given HDR10+ tentative support. No streaming devices support it, no current players can.

Do the math.

So if you choose a Samsung product you will not receive DV support. Kind of HD DVD to the Bluray right?
If you want DV you will have to choose something besides a Samsung for display.

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by CRMA

Who supports HDR10+ on streaming right now?
TIA

The format was just announced a few months ago. Just as with HDR10, Amazon will be the first streaming service to support it. Remember, back in 2015, it was Amazon working with Samsung that were the first to bring the format to the public, as initial HDR support on Amazon was only available on Samsung TVs.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by CRMA

SIf you want DV you will have to choose something besides a Samsung for display.

Correct. And other displays may actually get 12 bit Dolby Vision and 10 bit HDR10+ support, whereas Samsung will only have their baby.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

100% factual.

However, the only support it really needs is that of the BDA. And it looks like it may have the support required to become the mandatory layer.

Non factual.
Look on Vudu - ALL their UHD content is DV. Disney. Paramount. Warner. Lionsgate. MGM. Universal. Sony. Fox is the only outlier.

It cannot ever become mandatory because no UHD players support it! Samsung alone cannot force it (Panasonic is barely in the TV business these days as it is).

No streaming devices support it either. Samsung will get some Amazon programming from their built-in app. And that's it.
Meanwhile Amazon & Netflix have DV content.


You can't compare it to standard HDR support since everyone in the industry agreed it was the best way to push 4K.

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Non factual.
Look on Vudu - ALL their UHD content is DV. Disney. Paramount. Warner. Lionsgate. MGM. Universal. Sony. Fox is the only outlier.

It cannot ever become mandatory because no UHD players support it! Samsung alone cannot force it (Panasonic is barely in the TV business these days as it is).

No streaming devices support it either. Samsung will get some Amazon programming from their built-in app. And that's it.
Meanwhile Amazon & Netflix have DV content.

Full support would mean that studios would support DV on all of their movies across streaming and physical media. That is far from the case.

The Samsung M9500/M8500 players already support it through streaming. they may support it through disc playback as well, but that has not been confirmed. 2018 players will support it as well.

Amazon will support it (in fact, they are upgrading their entire HDR10 catalog to HDR10+.) To think that others won't is absurd. Amazon was the first streaming service to support HDR10 back in 2015 (initially only on Samsung TVs) and look at the support it has garnered since then.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

Full support would mean that studios would support DV on all of their movies across streaming and physical media. That is far from the case.

Give me a break. That's like saying since all studios don't release everything on 4K they don't fully support 4K.

The Samsung M9500/M8500 players already support it through streaming. they may support it through disc playback as well, but that has not been confirmed. 2018 players will support it as well.

Samsung. And that's all folks.

Amazon will support it. To think that others won't is absurd. Amazon was the first streaming service to support HDR10 back in 2015 (initially only on Samsung TVs) and look at the support it has garnered since then.

Again, all manufacturers & program providers were excited about HDR - seeing it as the "killer app" for UHD adoption. HDR10+ just brings back memories of Toshiba forcing a format war with HD DVD.

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Give me a break. That's like saying since all studios don't release everything on 4K they don't fully support 4K.

Samsung. And that's all folks.

Again, all manufacturers & program providers were excited about HDR - seeing it as the "killer app" for UHD adoption. HDR10+ just brings back memories of Toshiba forcing a format war with HD DVD.

It would be a fair statement to say that Disney, for example, has not fully supported 4K. Every single person in here, without any exceptions whatsoever, would agree with that fact.

You know for whom it doesn't bring back memories of a format war? The BDA. Members of the BDA have said, as Vincent Teoh has pointed out, that they do not view this as a format war. Given the recent talks that the BDA is looking to make HDR10+ the mandatory layer, it would explain why they do not view this as a format war.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

You know for whom it doesn't bring back memories of a format war? The BDA. Members of the BDA have said, as Vincent Teoh has pointed out, that they do not view this as a format war. Given the recent talks that the BDA is looking to make HDR10+ the mandatory layer, it would explain why they do not view this as a format war.

"Recent talks" = Samsung to rest of BDA: "Make HDR10+ mandatory."
BDA - "Ummm, we'll get back to you on that."


LOL.

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

"Recent talks" = Samsung to rest of BDA: "Make HDR10+ mandatory."
BDA - "Ummm, we'll get back to you on that."


LOL.

PeterTHX now has inside sources close to the matter. Who knew?!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

Anyways, now we've got brand new information from a trusted insider that HDR10+ could very well become the base layer.

Could very well?
Hmm, I gather from your post ^ that some person(s) presume to be closely connected to the business of the BDA, when in reality, few are and when queried, could accurately reveal even the most basic of unequivocal specifics, such as, (when, I was more actively involved, next up meeting locations – https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...ostcount=17324 ) much less, what is and what is not on the agenda for a past or future meeting.

Before I would consider anyone from an outside forum/message board or website as being an insider to the inner workings of the BDA, or, for that matter, within other aspects of the industry before it has been officially announced (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...d#post13605914 ) and then ultimately proven to have come to fruition - https://news.samsung.com/global/sams...e-us-tv-market,

I’d ask them something rudimentary like when and where is the next face to face BDA meeting and who is the secretary (the person assigned to record the meeting minutes) or the Chair/Vice Chairs of the respective subgroup for the matter that you’re interested in. Basic, simple questions to determine how well one is truly read in to what’s currently happening within the agenda of the BDA without revealing any confidential information and before beginning to speculate with unchecked exuberance.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I'm not here to get into a pissing contest.

My stream just isn’t as robust as it used to be.

[Geoff D]

Woah, TMI alert. Leave that kinda detail for a qualified physician.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Woah, TMI alert. Leave that kinda detail for a qualified physician.

Well, the good thing is my wrist is healing up fine and I should be 100% for a group ride with some Disney folk come 2nd weekend in Dec.

[Geoff D]

Remind me, did you have an op on it or something?

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Could very well?
Hmm, I gather from your post ^ that some person(s) presume to be closely connected to the business of the BDA, when in reality, few are and when queried, could accurately reveal even the most basic of unequivocal specifics, such as, (when, I was more actively involved, next up meeting locations – https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...ostcount=17324 ) much less, what is and what is not on the agenda for a past or future meeting.

Before I would consider anyone from an outside forum/message board or website as being an insider to the inner workings of the BDA, or, for that matter, within other aspects of the industry before it has been officially announced (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...d#post13605914 ) and then ultimately proven to have come to fruition - https://news.samsung.com/global/sams...e-us-tv-market,

I’d ask them something rudimentary like when and where is the next face to face BDA meeting and who is the secretary (the person assigned to record the meeting minutes) or the Chair/Vice Chairs of the respective subgroup for the matter that you’re interested in. Basic, simple questions to determine how well one is truly read in to what’s currently happening within the agenda of the BDA without revealing any confidential information and before beginning to speculate with unchecked exuberance.

I have no reason to question his knowledge/sources. He's provided a ton of correct information in the past. That's the only reason I put any stock into his claim. Some people on this forum, including DanBa, have relayed information that was passed on from him in the past as well.

He said recently that a decision by the BDA is expected by CES 2018. As you are obviously well connected yourself, you can verify if that's accurate or not.

[DanBa]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

.... Some people on this forum, including DanBa, have relayed information that was passed on from him in the past as well...

Which information?

I don't know your "insider".

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by DanBa

Which information?

I don't know your "insider".

Rudy1 from AVS Forum. I see you've got no problem using him as a source when it suits you, such as in this post: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=2707

[DanBa]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

Rudy1 from AVS Forum. I see you've got no problem using him as a source when it suits you, such as in this post: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=2707

All my information come from the Internet. I only relay good information.

The related information is nonsense for me:

"

Originally Posted by Lineproduct

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-hi...l#post55051930

Ultra HD Blu-ray white paper:
http://www.blu-raydisc.com/Assets/Do...0729_clean.pdf

"BDMV HDR [aka "HDR10"] video stream is an HEVC video stream (10bit, YCbCr 4:2:0).

The [dual layer] Dolby Vision video stream is composed of a BDMV HDR video stream and a Dolby Vision enhancement layer video stream. The enhancement layer is an HEVC video stream with embedded Dolby Vision metadata.

The Philips HDR video stream is a BDMV HDR video stream with Philips HDR SEI messages."


If HDR10+ is added into the BDA specification, it could be as follows:
The HDR10+ video stream is a BDMV HDR video stream with Samsung HDR SEI messages (i.e. "ST 2094-40 dynamic metadata for color volume transform").
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-hi...-displays.html

If the single layer Dolby Vision, like the Dolby Vision currently used by Apple, is added into the BDA specification, it could be as follows:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-hi...l#post55030904
The single layer Dolby Vision video stream is a BDMV HDR video stream with Dolby HDR SEI messages (i.e. "ST 2094-10 dynamic metadata").


It makes no sense that HDR10+ can replace BDMV HDR (aka "HDR10") and become a mandatory base layer: the others HDR formats have their own specific metadata, the Samsung metadata have no use for their own specific color volume mapping / display adaptation / tone-gamut mapping,

i.e.

the video stream of other HDR formats and HDR10+ is always a BDMV HDR video stream with specific HEVC SEI messages or specific metadata for specific color volume mapping.

BDMV HDR (aka "HDR10") is and will remain the mandatory base layer for Ultra HD Blu-ray."

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by DanBa

It makes no sense that HDR10+ can replace BDMV HDR (aka "HDR10") and become a mandatory base layer: the others HDR formats have their own specific metadata, the Samsung metadata have no use for their own specific color volume mapping / display adaptation / tone-gamut mapping,

i.e.

the video stream of other HDR formats and HDR10+ is always a BDMV HDR video stream with specific HEVC SEI messages or specific metadata for specific color volume mapping.

BDMV HDR (aka "HDR10") is and will remain the mandatory base layer for Ultra HD Blu-ray."

QFT.
If HDR10+ is ever added to UHD-BD (probably for Fox) it will be as an option, you can't add a mandatory spec this late in the game.