HDR Discussion Thread

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

which will include HDR oriented discussions and presentations such as this -

Black Level Visibility as a Function of Ambient Illumination
One of the key new attributes of HDR imaging and displays is the ability to present many stops of shadow detail, and with the best systems, an absolutely pure black. The display performs at its best in a dark room since no illumination impinges the surface of the display, which would otherwise elevate the black level as a function of the display’s reflectivity. In addition, the viewer perform at their best, in terms of seeing the most shadow detail, when the region surrounding the display is also dark (assuming the field of view occupied by the display is greater than ~35 deg). While there certainly are important applications where a display is viewed in a dark surround, there are also many cases where brighter ambient light levels occur. Knowledgeable viewers know not to have the room illumination aim at the display, but even for those viewers the surround luminance will be increased.

In order to understand the impact of the ambient illumination on contrast, shadow detail visibility, and further to guide ambient compensation algorithms, we performed a psychophysical study to assess the visual system’s ability to see detail as a function of the surround luminance. For the stimuli, we used a Gabor signal (a sinewave modulated by a Gaussian window) in order to probe the visual system’s best capability. For the display, we used a Pulsar display having a black level of 0.005 cd/m^2, but in order to study lower black levels such as occurring in the cinema, we placed a large 1.0 neutral density filter over the display to enable black levels as low 0.0005 cd/m^2. The surround luminances studies ranged from fully dark to 100 cd/m^ 2, and for each of these, thresholds were measured as a function of display mean luminance levels from .001 to 400 cd/m^2. The results are consistent with an existing surround effect visual model, which has basis in the cone photoreceptors. Of course, the results are also useful on their own sans model for pluge design, perceptual display performance assessment and tone-mapping applications.
Scott Daly, Dolby Laboratories

For those of you who don’t attend conferences, to put a face to the name ^….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H35y...ToSg#t=1h1m37s

P.S.
Along with Scott, Pete Ludé, the introducing moderator in thee above videoclip will also be pitching in at thee upcoming HPA Tech Retreat Conference with regards to Direct-View Cinema Displays (heralded first on Blu-ray.com here - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...d#post13052646 back at the end of 2016 before that topic also became fashionable on the forums) and trends in microLED technology.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

which will include HDR oriented discussions and presentations such as this -

Black Level Visibility as a Function of Ambient Illumination
One of the key new attributes of HDR imaging and displays is the ability to present many stops of shadow detail, and with the best systems, an absolutely pure black. The display performs at its best in a dark room since no illumination impinges the surface of the display, which would otherwise elevate the black level as a function of the display’s reflectivity. In addition, the viewer perform at their best, in terms of seeing the most shadow detail, when the region surrounding the display is also dark (assuming the field of view occupied by the display is greater than ~35 deg). While there certainly are important applications where a display is viewed in a dark surround, there are also many cases where brighter ambient light levels occur. Knowledgeable viewers know not to have the room illumination aim at the display, but even for those viewers the surround luminance will be increased.

In order to understand the impact of the ambient illumination on contrast, shadow detail visibility, and further to guide ambient compensation algorithms, we performed a psychophysical study to assess the visual system’s ability to see detail as a function of the surround luminance. For the stimuli, we used a Gabor signal (a sinewave modulated by a Gaussian window) in order to probe the visual system’s best capability. For the display, we used a Pulsar display having a black level of 0.005 cd/m^2, but in order to study lower black levels such as occurring in the cinema, we placed a large 1.0 neutral density filter over the display to enable black levels as low 0.0005 cd/m^2. The surround luminances studies ranged from fully dark to 100 cd/m^ 2, and for each of these, thresholds were measured as a function of display mean luminance levels from .001 to 400 cd/m^2. The results are consistent with an existing surround effect visual model, which has basis in the cone photoreceptors. Of course, the results are also useful on their own sans model for pluge design, perceptual display performance assessment and tone-mapping applications.
Scott Daly, Dolby Laboratories

And, for some Sunday human perspective, so as not to take our great sight for granted as we single mindedly play with our toys and to instead show some social awareness and compassion to other folks’ misfortunes (as AMD (age-related macular degeneration) could even happen to your parents or grandparents, if you don’t care much about strangers), there is hope on the horizon with regards to additional new device solutions in treating those with a diffuse loss of photoreceptor cells, e.g. this little known about cutting edge new clinical trial - https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03333954

involving the PRIMA - https://stanmed.stanford.edu/2017sum...blindness.html

For the sake of our French reading investors - http://www.lerevenu.com/bourse/valeu...-oeil-bionique (rods and cones depicted in the bottom layer of the circular insert)

Meanwhile, with regards to other more easily curable parts of the eye……I realize we can’t all be scientists and doctors, but we all can at least consider doing something as noble and selfless as becoming organ and tissue donors…. https://restoresight.org/cornea-dona...to-be-a-donor/ . Think about making the pledge, as it’s a great legacy to leave, as acknowledged by this custom headstone monument in a memorial park –

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

https://stanmed.stanford.edu/2017sum...blindness.html

Academic venue footnote:
In the past, both Scott (in this milestone HDR presentation in 2012 - https://talks.stanford.edu/scott-daly-timo-kunkel/ , which I previously linked folks to here on Blu-ray.com back in the day and which qualified viewers were beneficiaries of prior to the similar presentation at the 2013 HPA Tech Retreat Conference on the same topic of HDR

and Poppy C. - https://twitter.com/mediaXStanford/s...64835639681024 (video, here - http://mediax.stanford.edu/page/poppy-crum-human-ai with a few tidbits about Dolby Vision at the 20min 35sec timestamp)

have both presented at Stanford University

[BrownianMotion]

Originally Posted by zmarty

I have been looking into this myself. It seems there is an encoder available that I can try. But I don't have a HDR10+ TV. If I manage to create an HDR10+ file next week I will ask you to test it.

I'll gladly test it as well. He and I both have 2016 sets, so from what I understand, we don't have HDR10+ capability yet. However, I'm using a somewhat newer firmware that isn't available in the UK yet, so it's worth a try.

Which encoder are you referring to, by the way?

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by BrownianMotion

I'll gladly test it as well. He and I both have 2016 sets, so from what I understand, we don't have HDR10+ capability yet. However, I'm using a somewhat newer firmware that isn't available in the UK yet, so it's worth a try.

Indeed. And if we had the chance to compare HDR10Plus and HDR10 encodes of the same content, it would answer a lot of questions!

[Robert Zohn]

We'll be doing that at our 2018 TV Shootout.

Across our TV Shootout wall you see show the results from our testing data and actual HDR content. Our presenter will also put up 10 point ramp grey scale test patterns to demonstrate how each luminance level how the TVs and the various HDR competing formats tone map.

We're also planning on showing content that best demonstrates the HDR tone mapping so we can see the how HDR10, HDR10+ and hopefully Dolby Vision HDR and how they perform differently with actual HDR images on all the flagship 2018 TV models.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by zmarty

I have been looking into this myself. It seems there is an encoder available that I can try. But I don't have a HDR10+ TV. If I manage to create an HDR10+ file next week I will ask you to test it.

Regardless if one’s movie be in HDR10+ or DoVi, question for the bidness people and potential filmmakers to ponder regarding the production cost of UHD optical disc media. How much do you think the going charge would possibly be for a reputable, experienced post house to compress and author the first (master disc) Ultra HD Blu-ray double layer disc of your movie, even before replicating out your desired number of copies……

A. $10,000
B. $15,000
C. $30,000 or more

For that very first precious disc.
*No free leather jacket goes to the winner.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Accounting update:
Even with some of us being gone to CES in Vegas for several days, this outperforming thread continues to thrive. And, to be fair, since we talk so much (deservably, IMO) about Dolby Vision here, this month we included a forum exclusive deep dive into HDR10+ mastering and such:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...e#post14591914

granted, perhaps a little too much into the zooxanthellae for some? - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...20post14593623
Sorry, gkolb, but in order to be comprehensive, I thought it best to walk folks thru the process step by step.

So anyway, another month, January…… and another 100,000 views accumulated.
Now at 800,000+… https://forum.blu-ray.com/forumdisplay.php?f=206

Onwards to 900,000, although….
I think it might be difficult to maintain this exceptional pace in February due to the Winter Olympics, Super Bowl, and watching plenty of big clashes at the top of the table in the Premier League (having PeterTHX just drooling , I’d imagine)

and of course there’s those of us attending the upcoming HPA who probably will be too preoccupied to read or post regularly, but you never know - Waboman , in the course of future February discussion, we might give a short shout out to Koala bars….
http://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/thir...ry?id=52604365

Again, congrats to the viewers and all the contributors (new! and old ) https://forum.blu-ray.com/misc.php?d...osted&t=276605 with their eclectic contributions for making it all such a viewership success in the hundreds of thousands.

^ Postscript – well, looks like at least we’re off to a rambunctious start with 5000+ views since yesterday’s above accounting update post.
gkolb, Waboman, I think that Dilly Dilly Youtube must have done the trick.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

We'll be doing that at our 2018 TV Shootout.

Across our TV Shootout wall you see show the results from our testing data and actual HDR content. Our presenter will also put up 10 point ramp grey scale test patterns to demonstrate how each luminance level how the TVs and the various HDR competing formats tone map.

We're also planning on showing content that best demonstrates the HDR tone mapping so we can see the how HDR10, HDR10+ and hopefully Dolby Vision HDR and how they perform differently with actual HDR images on all the flagship 2018 TV models.

Robert, I always follow religiously your Flat panel TV shootout every year.
Avsforum lost a super valuable member in you, and in others too.
We're here to learn, not to get wacked and hacked.

[Waboman]

I needed a new leather jacket too. It's cold here.

[Waboman]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

^ Postscript – well, looks like at least we’re off to a rambunctious start with 5000+ views since yesterday’s above accounting update post.
gkolb, Waboman, I think that Dilly Dilly Youtube must have done the trick.

Lol. Must be the open bar. Thanks for picking up the tab. You're a good man, despite what anyone says.

[Penton-Man]

Finally cleaning out my PM inbox a little.
On that note, attention LA locals, I was PMed this a little while ago and forgot to post a heads-up, so anyway if you want to see Batman with an audience and many of the movie’s stars and filmmakers in attendance, you now know whats to do -
http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2018/01...geles-premiere

*Note to PeterTHX, you might have to make a difficult decision as I think Watford plays Chelsea that same day. The choice is yours.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Robert, I always follow religiously your Flat panel TV shootout every year.....

Easily said my French speaking friend, but have you been a longtime contributor to Robert’s retirement fund?
Is so, prove it by posting a pic of a working HD DVD player sold to you by our Retailer Insider.

If prompted, many of us here can. Including me (mind you, stalwart Blu-ray fans, for research purposes as to the format competition).

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Waboman

You're a good man, despite what anyone says.

I forgot to feed the cat and she's giving that grumpy look behind me back?
Better run now and remedy that with her favorite.
Later

[LordoftheRings]

This year's TV Shootout is going to be even more interesting, with the new advancements in HDR.
True that Mr. Penton, chief analyst?

I watched King Kong last night, the original...1933...on Blu.
I adjusted my contrast and gamma and color tone (B&W) controls for that HDR look.

[MovieBuff02]

Still no Samsung HDR10+ firmware update..was supposed to have been rolled out in Dec 17.

[LordoftheRings]

Speaking of rolling ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82TC...ature=youtu.be

[Robert Zohn]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Robert, I always follow religiously your Flat panel TV shootout every year.
Avsforum lost a super valuable member in you, and in others too.
We're here to learn, not to get wacked and hacked.

Thanks for the kind words! I love this category and it's been a lifetime passion and professional career for me.

It's nice to see members here who are also active on other forums so what we learn can be passed along to more enthusiasts.

I the case of AVS Forum they can queue up here to get the real insider facts that get posted on Blu-ray.com first. Next week will be a big time for more insider information.

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Regardless if one’s movie be in HDR10+ or DoVi, question for the bidness people and potential filmmakers to ponder regarding the production cost of UHD optical disc media. How much do you think the going charge would possibly be for a reputable, experienced post house to compress and author the first (master disc) Ultra HD Blu-ray double layer disc of your movie, even before replicating out your desired number of copies……

A. $10,000
B. $15,000
C. $30,000 or more

For that very first precious disc.
*No free leather jacket goes to the winner.

Hmm, TL discs got discussed maybe a year ago and I recall they were north of $30k , just a guess but for a DL disc I'll guess B. $15,000.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Thanks for the kind words! I love this category and it's been a lifetime passion and professional career for me.

It's nice to see members here who are also active on other forums so what we learn can be passed along to more enthusiasts.

I the case of AVS Forum they can queue up here to get the real insider facts that get posted on Blu-ray.com first. Next week will be a big time for more insider information.

AVSForum they sure can learn some from Blu-ray forum. Without content and insider info and free opinion of expression they are restricted, very.