HDR Discussion Thread

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by disrember

Can you do it in Welsh or Scottish Gaelic?

Is George IV bridge (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018...dgear-wearing/) in the Hearts or Hibernian supporters locale?

Instead of interviewing others for infomercials with a tad of French expression thrown in -

Nanosys Talks Quantum Dots & QLED LCD TV in CES 2018 Interview - YouTube

where the heck is David M. (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...3#post11216553) to answer questions like this about bridge locations when us Americans actually need him?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Just pondering now over lunch as to exactly how many of these ZRD-1 units…..https://www.sony.co.uk/pro/product/p...isplays/zrd-1/ will be employed with this display up north….https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...e#post14273943

....where's my slide rule from high school AP Physics at?....the Friedrich somethin gizmo.

So, doing it in my head without the aid of me old slide rule, I think should be about 450+ cubits, err units for a 4K jobber up there.

[Penton-Man]

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...l#post13909289

^ ---> flash forward to happenings today at Hall of Fame 9 week at Full Sail University (https://www.fullsail.edu/) in Florida….https://twitter.com/FullSail/status/964242385428459525

[puddy77]

An interesting thread on another forum via an Ars Technica article. Apparently the Xbox One X can output screenshots of HDR games retaining HDR10 metadata in a JPEG XR format. So this person translated them into heatmaps.

[Geoff D]

Fascinating stuff, and he clearly knows what he's talking about too which always helps!

[LordoftheRings]

It's about HDR, it has something to do with screens, TV screens, screens that are not all equal, it has some to do with games, heatmaps, Xbox One console, ...all that HDR jazz...the heat is on...

Brand new spic & span HDR article with heatmap imagery:

✒ https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/...atmap-imagery/

Edit: We live in a fast world, and the speed @ which we share the latest news of the information highway is relative to time and space. In this particular news, article here, puddy77 read the article before some. And he shared it right here, cool. I just saw his post now.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

It's about HDR, it has something to do with screens, TV screens, screens that are not all equal, it has some to do with games, heatmaps, Xbox One console, ...all that HDR jazz...the heat is on...

Brand new spic & span HDR article with heatmap imagery:

✒ https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/...atmap-imagery/

From the arstechnica article [Boris] “whose day job revolves around "eye and lens systems" for a tech-research firm”
Given that day job background ^ , yes, I can see his affinity for using a color scale to illustrate his points to his readers, since they are common for - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post10640929
Corneal topography being the 1st jpeg and the macula, the 2nd jpeg of that past post. Anyway, looks like a thorough piece by Boris on that gamer enthusiast forum. My experience with game machines is limited since way back when e.g. - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...%20post3250958

In regards to DanBa’s favorite topic of ‘universal’ HDR, The Colorfront stand at HPA Tech retreat Innovation Zone should be a worthwhile visit for attendees…. http://www.colorfront.com/index.php

[Ernest Rister]

Took over a week, finally have a picture on my new set I'm happy with. Playing with settings would alter other settings, and trying to compensate for those turned everything into a gordian knot. My main issue was a general white glaze, like overblown contrast. I couldn't get a satisfying black level and the image was a milky mush. Someone had posted their settings on Youtube and I tried replicating those only to see terrible color banding -- in the blacks, no less. Banding, macro-blocking, watery milky whites...for my HD sets, I've usually turned off all the ersatz image enhancers to stay pure to the source and adjust the image to the source. Here, I actually had to learn how to use them and get over my bias against them. Banding and blocking were caused by noise reduction filters which were turned on in the YouTube video. I had to turn on local dimming, which I didn't want to do, but it made all the difference in the world while routinely tweaking gamma, black level, contrast, brightness, everything.

I'll still be fiddling around with it, but finally I have an image I'm happy with (for now). Watched The Revenant last night and was blown away.

[Geoff D]

Why wouldn't you want to use the local dimming? As janky as it can sometimes look - even on the almighty ZD9 - it's still infinitely preferable to watching an LCD panel with no controlled backlighting where it will indeed look hazy and milky as all get out.

And personally I think the long-held convention of calibrating with the dimming off is sheer nonsense, because as soon as you turn it back on - as most sane people would do - then your calibrated gamma, colour temperature etc is going to be instantly thrown out of whack.

I'd take most YouTube settings videos with a gigantic hunk of salt, there's some douche who's doing "custom calibrations" for UHD movies on his X800 player and he's turning on all the noise reduction settings up to maximum and fiddling with all the other settings something chronic. Blech.

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I'd take most YouTube settings videos with a gigantic hunk of salt, there's some douche who's doing "custom calibrations" for UHD movies on his X800 player and he's turning on all the noise reduction settings up to maximum and fiddling with all the other settings something chronic. Blech.

Are we talking about '4K upscaling' dude?

[Geoff D]

I think so, yep.

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I think so, yep.

I watched a few of his 'calibration tutorials'

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Why wouldn't you want to use the local dimming? As janky as it can sometimes look - even on the almighty ZD9 - it's still infinitely preferable to watching an LCD panel with no controlled backlighting where it will indeed look hazy and milky as all get out.

And personally I think the long-held convention of calibrating with the dimming off is sheer nonsense, because as soon as you turn it back on - as most sane people would do - then your calibrated gamma, colour temperature etc is going to be instantly thrown out of whack.

I'd take most YouTube settings videos with a gigantic hunk of salt, there's some douche who's doing "custom calibrations" for UHD movies on his X800 player and he's turning on all the noise reduction settings up to maximum and fiddling with all the other settings something chronic. Blech.

I won a 65" Samsung HD set in a raffle about a year ago, and since it wasn't 3D or even 4k, I gave it to my in-laws (I'm not a hero...I knew if I took that beast home, I'd be stuck with it, and I was starting to worry about 3D availability, so I didn't dare take it). Took me about four hours to set up, but one of the problems with it was a setting that boosted the contrast on the fly, and my mom-in-law has an eye condition that makes her unusually sensitive to bright light. Gives her migraines, etc. The other problem was I'd have a great picture, then the next shot, the screen auto-dimmed, losing the vibrancy. Very annoying. So on her set, I disabled the auto-contrast feature, built the contrast, brightness, and gamma to the room in custom settings. Since it is just a 1080p HD set, it doesn't have options for black level, to say nothing of all the options for advanced settings. It's just an HD TV, but that auto-contrast feature was problematic. For their set, I turned off as many auto-settings as I could, built it to custom, and told them to leave it alone and not to fool with it (true story, my mother in law once called me from a gas station because she couldn't remember how to work the lever to open the flap over the gas cap...and my own parents have a 30-second patience window when they have tech problems with their TV and trying to walk them through issues over the phone is...difficult).

So, this is my first 4k HDR set, and my natural inclination was to turn off all the auto settings and stay as true to source as possible. Turns out you can't do that, at least not on this. You have to use some of them, local dimming being a big one. Anyway, I'm learning, and wasn't going to give up and settle. Just had to keep plugging away.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Fascinating stuff, and he clearly knows what he's talking about too which always helps!

Quickly scrolled thru to the last page and post, albeit missing much of the back-and-forth Q&A with the gamer dudes, but despite Boris not being in the business, he’s pretty astute in his thought about tweaking diffuse white on page 6 of that thread on the gamer forum.

Fact is, ST 2084:2014 suggests diffuse white as 100 nits, but in reality developers/colorists are actually creatively free (and some do so) in placing diffuse white wherever they desire in the ST 2084 range with their content.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by UHD4k

Thanks. No worries. I haven't been active on web forums for a few years now but I've done my share of debating in such places before. I may even have had an account here years ago; not sure anymore.

Anyway, I run the @UHD4k tweet feed and realized some of the stuff I post there gets discussed here. While I prefer all of you'd coe to Twitter and discuss it there I'm aware that's probably not going to happen, so I decided to drop in here : )

I coed to your twitter this morning to see if you were keeping up with UHD HDR news and a few tweets down I noticed you retweeted a tweet (is that correct grammar?) by The TV Answer Man, of whom we are somewhat familiar with here on Blu-ray.com forum.

Good to see Swanni aka The TV Answer Man is now sticking to raw Q&A rather than making silly predictions, like back in ‘13:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...r#post7935526:

[Penton-Man]

Off to the desert, so in the meantime, you guys have got work on your hands to bring it on home…. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...h#post14712682

Good luck.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I won a 65" Samsung HD set in a raffle about a year ago, and since it wasn't 3D or even 4k, I gave it to my in-laws (I'm not a hero...I knew if I took that beast home, I'd be stuck with it, and I was starting to worry about 3D availability, so I didn't dare take it). Took me about four hours to set up, but one of the problems with it was a setting that boosted the contrast on the fly, and my mom-in-law has an eye condition that makes her unusually sensitive to bright light. Gives her migraines, etc. The other problem was I'd have a great picture, then the next shot, the screen auto-dimmed, losing the vibrancy. Very annoying. So on her set, I disabled the auto-contrast feature, built the contrast, brightness, and gamma to the room in custom settings. Since it is just a 1080p HD set, it doesn't have options for black level, to say nothing of all the options for advanced settings. It's just an HD TV, but that auto-contrast feature was problematic. For their set, I turned off as many auto-settings as I could, built it to custom, and told them to leave it alone and not to fool with it (true story, my mother in law once called me from a gas station because she couldn't remember how to work the lever to open the flap over the gas cap...and my own parents have a 30-second patience window when they have tech problems with their TV and trying to walk them through issues over the phone is...difficult).

So, this is my first 4k HDR set, and my natural inclination was to turn off all the auto settings and stay as true to source as possible. Turns out you can't do that, at least not on this. You have to use some of them, local dimming being a big one. Anyway, I'm learning, and wasn't going to give up and settle. Just had to keep plugging away.

Local dimming is a world away from any kind of auto contrast, basically they're completely different things: the local dimming is there to actually deepen the blacks and the general density of the image to reasonable levels (hence the name), whereas all auto-contrast will do is **** with the brightness and contrast up and down, up and down, up and down from shot to shot.

There's a general baseline of settings that will deliver good accurate performance but I know what you're like, you'll set it as to how you want it (e.g. using the letterboxing on Star Wars to set brightness) so I'll leave it there

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I coed to your twitter this morning to see if you were keeping up with UHD HDR news and a few tweets down I noticed you retweeted a tweet (is that correct grammar?) by The TV Answer Man, of whom we are somewhat familiar with here on Blu-ray.com forum.

Good to see Swanni aka The TV Answer Man is now sticking to raw Q&A rather than making silly predictions, like back in ‘13:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...r#post7935526:

to shameless;y steal something from the UHD4k feed, Sony have announced some 1080p HDR TVs which is an excellent move IMO: https://www.rapidtvnews.com/20180216...#axzz57OSY7BS6

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Local dimming is a world away from any kind of auto contrast, basically they're completely different things: the local dimming is there to actually deepen the blacks and the general density of the image to reasonable levels (hence the name), whereas all auto-contrast will do is **** with the brightness and contrast up and down, up and down, up and down from shot to shot.

There's a general baseline of settings that will deliver good accurate performance but I know what you're like, you'll set it as to how you want it (e.g. using the letterboxing on Star Wars to set brightness) so I'll leave it there

On a CRT TV from 1994, that worked great.



Anyway, for HDTVs, I've used the Worlds of Wonder calibration disc. Tried to use that for the new 4k Bravia, it was useless.

[Geoff D]

If you were setting for SDR then that disc should still have had some value, I've used the same patterns and test discs I've been using for years to dial in my SDR settings on my 4K Sony. HDR is a whole 'nuther ball game, but that's why I've also got some excellent HDR10 test patterns too. I keep my calibrated SDR and HDR modes in different picture presets.