HDR Discussion Thread

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

to shameless;y steal something from the UHD4k feed, Sony have announced some 1080p HDR TVs which is an excellent move IMO: https://www.rapidtvnews.com/20180216...#axzz57OSY7BS6

No problemo , a bunch of other forums/websites as well as you must remember dem dar twitter news feed people have done the same to us (but worse so, by not acknowledging they ‘discreetly’ read it first here on Blu-ray.com), check out the time differential -
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...y#post12978696

[Penton-Man]

As I don’t have time to play devil’s advocate with Boris’s fine piece posted/linked by puddy on the last page which would involve a lengthy technical discussion with references and such, in that without further investigation/verification of his methodology, color map images can sometimes be misleading, as the displayed colors are false colors, and the observer may see a dramatic change in a color map and wrongly interpret that as a disproportionately large change in the visual appearance of thee actual imagery….or the converse (color map underestimating differences between objects in the actual imagery), so meanwhile.....

whilst I’m forum absent next week, as a follow up to the archived Thoughts on HDR article from last year linked in this post:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...o#post14304135

Something to keep ya'll audio entertained :
https://mixinglight.com/color-tutori...i/?idev_id=106

Note to Geoff - my friend , not to worry with your balance and what not, as you don’t have to ride with Shane:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...d#post13109170

P.S.
And as a shout out to DV riders further on down south here…..





we know once inside, the Dolby SoCal magic happens behind this wall….

[Penton-Man]

Follow-up to 2-2-2018 post - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...f#post14670647

I couldn’t get to see the dirt bike footage at the Alexa LF Hollywood launch at Paramount Pictures (https://twitter.com/ARRIChannel/stat...55436219478017), so c’mon Arri, share it publicly on your channel!

As you can see, from my early years on, I wasn’t always totally geek - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...et#post1103259. I (and a few others here) remain fans of such taxing off road physical endeavors and I personally still follow the sport and some of its teams , esp. out in Corona….

2018 U.S. Offroad | Rockstar Energy Husqvarna Factory Racing - YouTube

Bill B. (who, as an aside, will be dabbling in a presentation about using alternative frame rates in a session along with Tony, the creative brain behind Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk at the HPA tech retreat)…if anything, post it on your channel for the sake of Bill and assistants -

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Something to keep ya'll audio entertained :
https://mixinglight.com/color-tutori...i/?idev_id=106

Reminder:
You guys should know that Shane has been involved in Dolby Vision prior to any other colorist out there….not to mention having access to devices not available anywhere else other than Dolby Labs.

[LordoftheRings]

Penton, are you going to be @ the Oscars?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Something to keep ya'll....entertained....

and of a bit more complexity for thee intellectually curious who truly put the word science in Audio Video -

Publicly accessible follow up to last October of the merits of this (now heralding from Dolby Laboratories) Director - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post14177894

in his presentation, Sean uses test content from Stuttgart Media University - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...g#post12668128

SMPTE 2017: Choosing Encoding Parameters for High-Dynamic Range Streaming - YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

Thank you for sharing, had not seen that video. Nice to see David in the video.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

He doesn't seem to age at all.
Makes me a little jealous.

Introducing Elizabeth and Jaclyn.....

SMPTE 2017: Hitting the Mark - A New Color Difference Metric for HDR and WCG Imagery - YouTube

P.S.
People should no longer be surprised wrt RIT grads –
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...t#post14185491

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Penton, are you going to be @ the Oscars?

Alas, this year, simply vicariously thru the UHD TV in our family room and for not only with regards to the show itself, but also in general, we’re a big fan of Jimmy Kimmel (and his Jimmy Kimmel Live youtube channel ), who’ll be hosting again this year - http://oscar.go.com/news/oscar-news/...ars-2018-promo

[LordoftheRings]

@ least you save on a tuxedo rental.

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Introducing Elizabeth and Jaclyn.....
SMPTE 2017: Hitting the Mark - A New Color Difference Metric for HDR and WCG Imagery - YouTube

I watched this last night, when they flooded their youtube channel with hundreds of videos all in one go!

Who is the guy asking the question at 28mins in? I just loved his response. LOL. Give him a medal

[LordoftheRings]

New world's first 8K HFR/HDR camera from Panasonic (60fps):
• https://www.redsharknews.com/technol...l-shutter-cmos

[Staying Salty]

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post55677912

Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD

Hi, the US version of Blad Runner 2049 has 10000 nits metadata, the UK (and probably other EU version) have 4000 nits.

OPPO is not reporting the Primaries/White Point cordinates of the mastering monitor or MaxCLL / MaxFALL also.

US Blade Runner 2049 mastering monitor had REC.2020 Primaries while UK had DCI-P3 primaries (always REC.2020 is used as container and it's the colorspace you aim as target when you calibrate for HDR10/DV)

See a quick example of what differences some movies (and a lot of others will have when the list will be available) have between regions (while UHD don't have region code restriction)....interesting differences:

dispaytable.jpg

Looks like Blade Runner 2049 is the first movie mastered with 10000nits monitor using REC.2020 primaries.

Blade Runner 2049 is the second title which has REC.2020 primaries, there is another one from BBC US: Wild Africa/ Tiny Giants (but mastered using a 4000 nit monitor).

There 2 ways to calibrated a Studio Mastering Monitor, one is to calibrated it for DCI-P3 with REC.2020 D65 and at the end to put these data to a REC.2020 container and the other way is to calibrated the monitor to REC.2020 directly; to take advance a monitor which has higher coverage from DCI-P3.

[Staying Salty]

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post55679402

Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD

HDR10 is 2160p YCbCr 10-bit, and Dolby Vision is adding a 12bit 1080p layer which is now is YCbCr 4:2:0 now.....YCbCr 4:2:2 in the future....and probably about @ 2019-2020 YCbCr will be replaced with ICtCp...then the DV discs will be encoded with ICtCP.

The problem is the format compatibility, I mean the last 3 years there exist HDR disk, you can playback DV from OPPO only (Not all TV's are supporting DV also), so when they release a movie, it has to support at least HDR10 where all HDR TV's are supporting, for that reason it's still at YCbCr.

To have a complete ICtCp, they have to been released in market disks only with DV version of the movie, which I found very difficult becasue it will sell only a few compared to HDR10/DV release.

According to Dolby ICtCp is better, but there experiments where they have found weaknesses also, the group called ''Joint Collaborative Team on Video Coding (JCTVC)'' has performed some testing comparing non constant or constant luminance YCbCr vs. ICtCp.

With streaming of DV, sure it's encoded using ICtCp becasue it's native DV delivery format, they have no reason to deliver with YCbCr.

Generally with DV mode, companies have to disable any calibration control which can confuse users or give the capability of user adjustments with tone mapping active and let calibration controls active only during calibration without DV tone/gamut mapping active, like its happening with LG 2017 and will happen with LG 2018 also.

BTW there some movies where their additional DV layer is not adding any additional detail, except the per frame metadata, a good example is the movie 'The Dark Tower', where the HDR10 layer has average bitrate 55116 kbps and DV layer bitrate only 122 kbps average.

Sort of a bummer with the delay of ICtCp on disc.

[Geoff D]

ICtCp will need to be added to the underlying UHD Blu spec in order to use it, right? So it's not simply a case of "they can't use it because of the HDR10 layer". To have DV only on disc would also violate the UHD Blu-ray spec which states that a HDR10 compatible version must also be included if an optional flavour of HDR is employed, so again specs will need to be changed to make that happen.

As for Blade Runner 2049's US metadata figures, that looks increasingly like a mistake in the metadata mastering as the HDR WCG performance of the two editions was literally identical on my metadata-ignoring TV. Hell of a time to pick a movie that hits only 181 nits peak brightness as your first one to grade on a 10K nit monitor, hmmm?

[Robert Zohn]

@Staying Salty, thanks for reposting this very interesting and valuable information here. This is a great example of how sharing worthy information from other forums is a good thing for all parties. Reminds me of the Rotary 4-way test:

The Rotarians Four-Way Test:

1. Is it the truth?

2. Is it fair to all concerned?

3. Will it be beneficial to all concerned?

4. Will it build goodwill & better friendships?

Sorry for the Rotary plug, but I couldn't help thinking this as I learned something interesting and valuable to me that I enjoyed learning.

[LordoftheRings]

I agree Robert, regarding sharing information.
I also remember very well AVS and the Shack banning people with good informative links.
Control of good free information, fear of advancing in knowledge, dictating their own agenda.
No wonder they both get hacked with all the member's private information. ...Vertical Scope.

We're here to learn, not to be dictated.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

@ least you save on a tuxedo rental.

I don’t rent, I just rotate the ones I already own, figuring if I keep a large enough stable, one of them will eventually go back in style for the time, no matter what the event.

I actually posted a pic here somewhere on this forum back in the day of the tux I wore for the Oscars back in 2008? and I think that one is now finally back in style for any black tie event I’m willing or forced to attend.

So I think my ‘method’ works. Problem is, I follow the same practice with some of thee other clothes in our closet(s) which tends to irritate my wife when she sees all “the old stuff” taking up room.

[LordoftheRings]

Cool, Penton in a tux.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

I watched this last night, when they flooded their youtube channel with hundreds of videos all in one go!
Who is the guy asking the question at 28mins in?....

Well, I believe he’s one of those media journos out of his element like the 50/50 guy. Poor thing. He actually should consider himself quite lucky as his reply wouldn’t have gone over with such hilarity had he responded in that whimsical fashion to a professor giving a presentation to students at a demanding technology doctoral university like RIT (https://www.rit.edu/) or law or med students in Q&A at grand rounds.

I’d have to check a PM I received for the exact link if you’re interested in specifics, but most recently, I’ve heard among other things, he’s the same fellow who’s challenged as to knowledge of the ways DCPs are distributed, puts too much significance in that Max nits level spreadsheet for UHD HD movies determined by the HD Fury which I posted here months ago as a courtesy to Geoff and actually to make a point for taking it with a grain of salt, given the consumer TV implementation climate…. and he highly recommends a member who interned here years ago, of whom I think Geoff would heartily disagree with as a reference….https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post14715815

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD

According to Dolby ICtCp is better, but there experiments where they have found weaknesses also, the group called ''Joint Collaborative Team on Video Coding (JCTVC)'' has performed some testing comparing non constant or constant luminance YCbCr vs. ICtCp.

True, but the conclusions had a caveat in so much as the interface used for driving the best display used for testing/proving these alleged weaknesses was limited to a 4:2:2 Y’CbCr 10-bit interface. That would obviously bias everything towards Y’CbCr.