HDR Discussion Thread

[alexanderg823]

Originally Posted by Staying Salty

I was at a Big Screen store yesterday that only sold Samsung displays. They had the latest ones. I ask for a demonstration of HDR10+. He tried to show a demo of the HDR+ function. He had no idea what HDR10+ was.

And that's a completely reasonable response given that it is vaporware trash.

Seems like it's more of a thinly veiled chess piece used by Samsung than an actual product that will ever see much (if any) use.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Waboman

Memorial Day

Not shown in HDR (nevertheless, with today’s tools and techniques, after the fact, it could be, a little dated but nice pdf for understanding the basics - http://taniapouli.me/wp-content/uplo...ggraph2016.pdf)
in keeping with the theme of Memorial Day, Monday night on HBO I recommend ‘John McCain: For Whom the Bell Tolls’. For the youngsters out there who are unaware, as The New Yorker magazine once wrote:

‘McCain’s conduct during nearly six years in a North Vietnamese prison, the infamous Hanoi Hilton, had become the stuff of legend. In 1968, less than a year after his Navy bomber was shot down, the imprisoned McCain was abruptly offered unconditional release by the North Vietnamese, perhaps because his father had just been named the commander of U.S. forces in the Pacific. McCain was still badly crippled from his crash and the poor medical treatment that followed, yet he adhered to the P.O.W. code of honor and refused to be repatriated ahead of American prisoners who had been in captivity longer than he. His refusal was adamant. His guard told him, “Now, McCain, it will be very bad for you.” He was tortured for his defiance, and ultimately spent more than two years in solitary confinement. The abuse, combined with the after-effects of his injuries, left him physically marked. He could have avoided it all, but out of loyalty and—one has to name it—love for his comrades, he chose not to.’

P.S.
And for those who live close to the Jacob Burns Film Center in Pleasantville, N.Y. , (e.g. https://www.distance-cities.com/dist...easantville-ny ) prior to the HBO showing, the Center will have a special event showing the movie on the big screen including Q&A with filmmakers Peter Kunhardt, George Kunhardt and Teddy Kunhardt
ACT FAST, as tickets are selling out quickly…..http://shop.burnsfilmcenter.org/sing...g.aspx?p=16208

[Waboman]

Not quite Memorial Day HDR but better. I give you WaboVision10 (WV10). After some more R&D and a firmware update it will become WV10+ #Its5OclockSomewhere

[jono3000]

Interesting article on how the BBC captured the recent royal wedding in HLG HDR and used the SDR conversion for HD broadcast

https://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/blog/2018-0...edding-uhd-hdr

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by jono3000

Interesting article on how the BBC captured the recent royal wedding in HLG HDR and used the SDR conversion for HD broadcast

https://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/blog/2018-0...edding-uhd-hdr

jono, looks like a nice comprehensive contribution by Andrew.

In response, Simon (his colleague) says…..”stunning pictures in UHD HLG HDR inside the chapel OB scanner - weird watching with no sound though”.
^ I say, count your blessings Simon for if you were in some other peoples’ shoes with the sound on when watching soccer matches, you could be burdened with the commentary of Ray Hudson…..

Ray Hudson - Best Commentary Moments - YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Waboman

.....#Its5OclockSomewhere

someone’s in the solo spirit -
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bip4Vf0A...tahneefournier

others have had it for awhile….https://twitter.com/rbredow/status/995169490366226432

others, even longer - https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news...-1241382467679

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Staying Salty

I was at a Big Screen store yesterday that only sold Samsung displays. They had the latest ones. I ask for a demonstration of HDR10+. He tried to show a demo of the HDR+ function. He had no idea what HDR10+ was.

I favor Dolby Vision for reasons I’ve explained over past months….that said, the infrastructure for HDR10+ is building and the format is still a work in progress, e.g. recently, support (although confusing [and not mentioned in the Features Guide] to new users with controls such as ‘Anchor Point 1-9’ has been added for native HDR10+ in Davinci Resolve Studio, see Chapter 4, 1-66 “Optional HDR10+ Palette (Studio Only)”

http://documents.blackmagicdesign.co...ures_Guide.pdf

[Jar Jar Stinks]

Is Active HDR the same as HDR10? I bought this basic LG TV which simply lists Active HDR as a feature. I went to Wikipedia and saw the following are HDR standards:

• Perceptual Quantizer
• HDR10
• HDR10+
• Dolby Vision
• Hybrid Log-Gamma
• SL-HDR1

Which one of these standards is "Active HDR?"

Bonus question: What is Active HDR with Dolby Vision?

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by Jar Jar Stinks

Is Active HDR the same as HDR10? I bought this basic LG TV which simply lists Active HDR as a feature. I went to Wikipedia and saw the following are HDR standards:

• Perceptual Quantizer
• HDR10
• HDR10+
• Dolby Vision
• Hybrid Log-Gamma
• SL-HDR1

Which one of these standards is "Active HDR?"

Bonus question: What is Active HDR with Dolby Vision?

1. Don’t know what Active HDR is.

2. This tv doesn’t support DV.

3. Went to Rtings.com. This model is same as UJ6300. Total nits around 300, a rather weak HDR performer. May or may not support WCG. Couldn’t figure out if it’s 8-bit or 10-bit panel. All-in-all a rather problematic tv for 4K HDR presentations. I’m not even sure if Rtings says it handles HDR10.

A real LG marketing nightmare.

[Jar Jar Stinks]

Originally Posted by gkolb

1. Don’t know what Active HDR is.

2. This tv doesn’t support DV.

3. Went to Rtings.com. This model is same as UJ6300. Total nits around 300, a rather weak HDR performer. May or may not support WCG. Couldn’t figure out if it’s 8-bit or 10-bit panel. All-in-all a rather problematic tv for 4K HDR presentations. I’m not even sure if Rtings says it handles HDR10.

A real LG marketing nightmare.

Interesting. It was only $249.99, so I'm not expecting much. Some of LG's models say Active HDR with Dolby Vision. I haven't been able to find any detailed info on this "Active HDR" moniker.

[DanBa]

Originally Posted by Jar Jar Stinks

Is Active HDR the same as HDR10? I bought this basic LG TV which simply lists Active HDR as a feature. I went to Wikipedia and saw the following are HDR standards:

• Perceptual Quantizer
• HDR10
• HDR10+
• Dolby Vision
• Hybrid Log-Gamma
• SL-HDR1

Which one of these standards is "Active HDR?"

Bonus question: What is Active HDR with Dolby Vision?

Active HDR with Dolby Vision is HDR10, more precisely one of many HDR10 implementations.

Active HDR with Dolby Vision is aimed at enhancing the HDR10 rendering by using frame-by-frame dynamic metadata for color volume mapping.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-hi...l#post50857057

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by gkolb

1. Don’t know what Active HDR is.

2. This tv doesn’t support DV.

3. Went to Rtings.com. This model is same as UJ6300. Total nits around 300, a rather weak HDR performer. May or may not support WCG. Couldn’t figure out if it’s 8-bit or 10-bit panel. All-in-all a rather problematic tv for 4K HDR presentations. I’m not even sure if Rtings says it handles HDR10.

A real LG marketing nightmare.

"Active HDR" is not a HDR standard. It is an LG television processing function. As Jar Jar Stinks says, it's a "feature" of his TV.

So it's inside the TV, and it simulates dynamic metadata which wasn't there, by analysing the incoming HDR10 signal. It's a bit like a cheaper and TV-created HDR10+ , but because it's creating the metadata in real-time, it has the chance to get "caught out" with unexpected changes in brightness which could produce sub-optimal tone-mapping. However from what I've heard (mainly from Vincent Teoh's videos), it works reasonably well. More intelligent than Samsung's "Dynamic Contrast" for example.

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by Staying Salty

I was at a Big Screen store yesterday that only sold Samsung displays. They had the latest ones. I ask for a demonstration of HDR10+. He tried to show a demo of the HDR+ function. He had no idea what HDR10+ was.

What you asked of him is impossible to provide though! There's still no HDR10+ demo content (two years and still waiting). There was a Samsung press release claiming Amazon were streaming HDR10+, but Amazon's own help page (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/help/cus...-no-redirect=1) says that "If your television is compatible, and the Prime Video title supports it, an "HDR10+" label appears instead of the normal "HDR" label in the video details.". Not one user has ever seen the HDR10+ label appear in Amazon's app on their Samsung 2017/8 model TV. So even Amazon are not using it yet.

But it's amusing that he confused HDR+ with HDR10+. That was entirely predictable, Samsung were idiots for choosing both nomenclatures, cynically and deliberately trying to confuse consumers with each of them. They had a chance to change the name but didn't take it!

[Jar Jar Stinks]

Originally Posted by gkolb

May or may not support WCG. Couldn’t figure out if it’s 8-bit or 10-bit panel.

I believe it is 8 bit + FRC and it does not support WCG.

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

"Active HDR" is not a HDR standard. It is an LG television processing function. As Jar Jar Stinks says, it's a "feature" of his TV.

So it's inside the TV, and it simulates dynamic metadata which wasn't there, by analysing the incoming HDR10 signal. It's a bit like a cheaper and TV-created HDR10+ , but because it's creating the metadata in real-time, it has the chance to get "caught out" with unexpected changes in brightness which could produce sub-optimal tone-mapping. However from what I've heard (mainly from Vincent Teoh's videos), it works reasonably well. More intelligent than Samsung's "Dynamic Contrast" for example.

Great explanation. Thanks.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by rroeder

Saw that, he's lucky he didn't take out a few other riders when he was stumbling around, and then I thought he was really gonna hurt himself after he remounted!

I did Noble canyon trail 3 years ago when I was visiting a friend in Socal

For your consideration, not in HDR but on June 5th, "North of Nightfall"

North of Nightfall | Film TEASER - YouTube

will at least be available as a digital download in 4K through Vimeo On Demand.

On the west coast, just about the farthest north I’ve raced was the TOM back in the day…..
http://www.squamishchief.com/sports/...uits-1.2185574

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

jono, looks like a nice comprehensive contribution by Andrew.

Last Monday in L.A., Timo and Rob from Dolby (between them, a total of 15 patents related to various aspects of imaging) also provided a nice comprehension seminar with regards to PQ being good…..despite what some others may claim – https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...w#post14896493

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Jar Jar Stinks

Interesting.

as to why Jar Jar 'Stinks'

[Penton-Man]

received PM from a shy member asking “in sevral of your posts you mentioned work published in ‘peer-reviewed’ journals excuse my poor english but what does peer reviewed mean?”

Answer - in a nutshell, it means that it has to pass the grade as evaluated by an independent editorial board of acknowledged experts, e.g. http://www.imaging.org/site/AsiCommo...ion/Login.aspx
^ if that link doesn't go thru for some then just google Journal of Perceptual Imaging and scroll down to the editorial board

[Penton-Man]

follow-up to my past heads-up in reply to member bailey1987 from a few months ago….

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

the DCI may be slowly becoming more involved with an effort in regards to a test lab for HDR cinema. We’ll have to wait and see if talk manifests itself into action.

Last December, DCI conducted viewing sessions utilizing short clips (approximately 15 to 25 seconds) of existing theatrical content that were chosen based on their suitability for image comparison testing in a higher dynamic range projection environment.

The DCI Image Evaluation Summary has recently been approved and the public can now download the summary from here - http://www.dcimovies.com/announcemen...y_20180511.pdf

P.S.
Note to Steed, Geoff, Tob, and other football (soccer) enthusiasts (and yes, I still believe HDR sports will drive consumer awareness to HDR and thus mass adoption), I’m heading out the office now to watch the Champions League Final (albeit for me, on a delayed basis, given work).
Will try to post my thoughts in the football thread maybe late tonight or tomorrow. I think you guys already know who I'm rooting for.

[jibucha]

I understand this information, but I am responding with incomplete information, that I intend to update (completely) later

1 - none of the HDR Standards are Active HDR

2 - there is no Active HDR with regards to Dolby Vision

3 - no, Active HDR is not HDR10

4 - HDR Effect, this is the SDR to HDR, that creates dynamic metadata, or HDR10 (static metadata) to include dynamic metadata, which also applies to HLG

(this is accomplished within the display, and is similar to what HDR10+ (Samsung - promoting), but HDR10+ creates the dynamic metadata and 'locks it into the content, so that when you purchase a disc that is so encoded, it would have to be 'backwards' undone to be HDR10 as is normal))

(please note :: someone posted that the HDR10+ is superior to the similar processing by each manufacturer displays; I disagree :: accurately, it could go either way, with the encoded content being superior, if you have a supporting display, or (Sony/LG) might do a better job of creating the dynamic metadata within their respective displays :: with the continual improvements (processors/firmware) I am of the thinking that HDR10 done within the display is the best possible solution

5 - Active HDR & HDR Pro (read carefully, as I am in process of confirming this information as I have not thought of it for awhile) :: if I am remembering this correctly, Active HDR (2017 - compromised of HDR10, HLG & HDR Effect - including Dolby Vision) is an inclusive marketing term that LG uses referring to their comprehensive HDR solutions

in 2018, LG changed its marketing to convey Cinema HDR (Dolby Vision & Advanced HDR by Technicolor) and HDR Pro (equally creating dynamic metadata for each respectively) which compromises of HDR10/HLG/HDR Effect (please note - each of these features are individually selective and can be turned on/off at will by settings of the display)

Active HDR with Dolby Vision simply is an extension of their marketing terminology for consistency, meaning that they also support Dolby Vision

6 - HDR10+ :: LG and Sony both already support creation of dynamic metadata, and have for several years now, thus find the need to support HDR10+ both redundant and unnecessary, especially as this is a spin off of Samsung’s similar approach (originally)

it should be kept in mind that HDR10+ is computer generated (no content creator involvement) so, whether the computer (HDR10+) generates or the display processor (LG & Sony) seems irrelevant (personally, the ability of manufacture based solutions allows for the continued refinement (via processor/firmware upgrades) to continually improve performance (HDR10+, as the content is baked in, cannot improve as such)

note :: I intend to update this asap (mostly updated 5/27/18 @ 3:44am), to complete this information (I think that I already know what I did not include, but wish to confirm before posting, especially with the nonsense relating to a unfortunate notorious review of a particular on another forum)

reference (post #5350)

Originally Posted by Jar Jar Stinks

Which one of these standards is "Active HDR?"

Bonus question: What is Active HDR with Dolby Vision?