HDR Discussion Thread

[Penton-Man]

new version – http://software.ff.de/hdr_software_ff_pictures which includes as a feature Dynamic Metadata (import/export of dynamic metadata in between video and already generated JSON files

[Penton-Man]

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post15308612

^ -> alternatively, opinions vary, as they are believers - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFm5m8YswDg#t=15s

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

Ok sorry I was busy over the last few days. I speak from owning the KS7000 (Euro version of the same TV) for 2 years, recently replaced with a nice LG C8.

Are you sure we're talking about the same TV but for different markets? My NU8000 doesn't offer the "Calibrated" picture modes you mention below...

I recommend the owner's thread on AVSforum for this TV, not to post questions to the end of it, but to read all its knowledge.

I have read it, on an almost daily basis; not much movement over there in terms of owners and their settings...

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...libration.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...rs-thread.html

In brief:
When you do not set the HDMI port's input type to "PC", the following Picture Modes are available to you
[*]Dynamic (HDR is not displayed)[*]Natural (HDR is not displayed)[*]Movie (auto-switches between HDR and SDR picture presets)[*]Standard (auto-switches between HDR and SDR picture presets)

I have all these modes available, and have settled on Standard for my cable and Blu-ray inputs -- however, I DO NOT have any of the modes you mention here:

[*]Sport (HDR is not displayed)[*]Game (HDR is displayed, and the TV remembers separate SDR and HDR presets only firmware 1220.6 and later)[*]HDR+ (auto-switches between HDR and SDR picture presets)[*]Cal-Night (auto-switches between HDR and SDR picture presets) (must be unlocked in the service menu)[*]Cal-Day (auto-switches between HDR and SDR picture presets) (must be unlocked in the service menu)[/LIST]You can only be in ONE Picture Mode at a time. To check which Picture Mode you are in, Press Home on the Smart Remote, scroll to settings, and read what it says in the Quick Settings icon bar.

Where the TV stores two presets, one for HDR and one for SDR, it doesn't give you a clue which it's using - you have to check the Backlight value to see if it's jumped up to 20 etc. This is the most confusing thing when first getting the TV.

When you do set the HDMI port's input type to "PC" and it is sending 4:4:4 Chroma, only the following Picture Modes are available to you, and, these are completely different presets where the settings are stored separately to non-PC input above.

• Dynamic (HDR is not displayed)
• Standard (auto-switches between HDR and SDR picture presets) (but Color Space locked to "Native" so unsuitable for HDR viewing)
• Sport (but Color Space locked to "Native")

I do not have a Sport mode available as far as I know.

If you want to use the low-input Game picture mode, you cannot set the input type to PC.
If you set the input type to PC, it doesn't magically give you a lower input lag in any mode.

To get the lowest input lag with a PC connected, you have to somehow change the input type so that is it NOT PC so that you can select the Game mode.

Not going to use Game or PC modes...

You should use the "Auto" colourspace in every picture mode for every situation except for ONE, which is (a) below.

The HDR+ "Special Viewing mode" has two functions.
a. When fed with SDR content, it simulates HDR effects with a WCG. You must use colorspace "Native", and you are supposed to set your NORMAL backlight/contrast value for this to look right (not the crazy default of Backlight=20, Contrast=100).
b. When fed with HDR content, it does some "souped up" tonemapping tricks which are non-standard. (colourspace Auto as normal). It's not tracking PQ as well as it does with Movie-HDR or Standard-HDR.

(a) and (b) are utterly different functions, working completely differently, yet they are both sharing the same mode called "HDR+".

The most accurate SDR mode is Movie with Colour Tone warm2.

The Eco mode isn't a global on/off - it's PER picture mode, and can easily catch you out, and it has a nasty habit of sneakily turning itself back on.

I am still confused by the HDR stuff you explained, but I have definitely turned ECO settings OFF for all inputs...

[DisplayCalNoob]

Originally Posted by alexanderg823

One would assume with those specs, it wouldn't have to tone map any BVM-300 content at all. Thus is the benefit of PQ EOTF - It's all fixed point precise values, so a display theoretically only needs to tone map if the content falls outside of its specs. The Z9F would well exceed it, so it can correctly plot all corresponding values without adjustment. In fact, it should be close to not having to tone map Dolby Pulsar mastered content as well!

I questioned whether or not that's the case, because the display exceeds the mastered content(Sony BVM-300) and what does a display do with that 3000 nit brightness difference from a absolute curve.

You roll off if it doesn't meet or match the mastering monitor on a lower nit consumer display.

It was said in a article I read, that the Dolby Pulsar in some cases with its 4000 nits, exposed some detail that the director and cinematographer wanted hidden, like a camera outside a window. So they had to, I assume they assigned a specific pixel brightness level, to remedy that.

With HDR10, displays go to the max to hit peak brightness. You don't to want over brighten highlights......right?

[DisplayCalNoob]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post15308612

^ -> alternatively, opinions vary, as they are believers - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFm5m8YswDg#t=15s

I watched that Dolby video a couple days ago, really interesting to see Tom is a fan.

[alexanderg823]

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob

I questioned whether or not that's the case, because the display exceeds the mastered content(Sony BVM-300) and what does a display do with that 3000 nit brightness difference from a absolute curve.

You roll off if it doesn't meet or match the mastering monitor on a lower nit consumer display.

It was said in a article I read, that the Dolby Pulsar in some cases with its 4000 nits, exposed some detail that the director and cinematographer wanted hidden, like a camera outside a window. So they had to, I assume they assigned a specific pixel brightness level, to remedy that.

With HDR10, displays go to the max to hit peak brightness. You don't to want over brighten highlights......right?

What do you mean? If it's absolute that means it just the additional 3,000 nits of brightness capability of the display should do nothing and you've essentially got 3,000 extra nits of display power that gets "wasted". Unless you're samsung of course.

[DisplayCalNoob]

Originally Posted by alexanderg823

What do you mean? If it's absolute that means it just the additional 3,000 nits of brightness capability of the display should do nothing and you've essentially got 3,000 extra nits of display power that gets "wasted". Unless you're samsung of course.

Dolby suggest 1:1, they say that tone mapping should occur in either case, low nit or very high nit. Although, I've been told by one person that, that part of DV has since been changed, but each update has yet to have it omitted.

I can't get those in the know, to speak on it, I assume NDA's are involved. Although, the one person was adamant about, dynamic metadata not applying to high nit displays even though Vincent Teoh proved otherwise.


I may be wrong, and Dolby has changed its approach to tone mapping in reference to high nit consumer displays.

I wouldn't be surprised, if Sony started using the Z9F as it's mastering monitor.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

While headed over to North Vancouver for the TT of the bike race I captured a shot of the Arctic Sunrise…..



Background for those unfamiliar - https://www.dw.com/en/russia-to-pay-...hip/a-39740289

Cool.

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

Are you sure we're talking about the same TV but for different markets? My NU8000 doesn't offer the "Calibrated" picture modes you mention below...

Right. I missed the "NU". My answer was for "KS", sorry. However, very little has changed between model-years.

Sport and Game are probably in a different place in the menus on the NU models. They were never just in with the other modes in the KS either.

I do not have a Sport mode available as far as I know.

If you don't, you're better off without it. It made the picture look hideous.

I am still confused by the HDR stuff you explained, but I have definitely turned ECO settings OFF for all inputs...

All you need to remember is that you must use Colourspace=Auto for everything, except the one case I listed. That was your original question

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

Right. I missed the "NU". My answer was for "KS", sorry. However, very little has changed between model-years.

Sport and Game are probably in a different place in the menus on the NU models. They were never just in with the other modes in the KS either.

Yes; this NU model is brand-new for 2018...

I don't plan on using Sport or Game, so guess it doesn't matter...

If you don't, you're better off without it. It made the picture look hideous.

See above.

All you need to remember is that you must use Colourspace=Auto for everything, except the one case I listed. That was your original question

But will the TV automatically APPLY HDR when I hook up a 4K source that's encoded with it? Right now, I'm only using a Blu-ray player, so should I just use one of the non-HDR modes, such as Standard?

With regard to my Blu-ray player's (an Oppo BDP-83) COLOR SPACE setting -- I was leaving this on "4:4:4" because Oppo informed me my last display this player was hooked up to (a Sony SXRD) sampled at 4:4:4...since getting the new Samsung, I have switched the Color Space to AUTO. What should this be on? Do you know what the new TV samples at natively?

[Robert Zohn]

Tomorrow will be another big day on Blu-ray.com with big breaking news. I just feel it in my bones!

Look for a couple new threads in the "Ultra HD Blu-ray and 4K Hardware and Technology" area

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Tomorrow will be another big day on Blu-ray.com with big breaking news. I just feel it in my bones!

Look for a couple new threads in the "Ultra HD Blu-ray and 4K Hardware and Technology" area

I've been tempted to start a new thread but I'm gonna wait! Hopefully by the time I wake up tomorrow there's new threads already active!

[Robert Zohn]

:-) Sleep in a little late and your wish will be my command. Sleep well and dream of what you would love to see in the advancement of video science.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

:-) Sleep in a little late and your wish will be my command. Sleep well and dream of what you would love to see in the advancement of video science.

I'm a late sleeper so no worries! The TV industry is gonna be awesome over the next couple of years with state of the art technology coming because of great competition!

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Tomorrow will be another big day on Blu-ray.com with big breaking news. I just feel it in my bones!

Look for a couple new threads in the "Ultra HD Blu-ray and 4K Hardware and Technology" area

Oppo is coming back?

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

:-) Sleep in a little late and your wish will be my command. Sleep well and dream of what you would love to see in the advancement of video science.

3D is coming back in North America?

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Oppo is coming back?

Panasonic tvs are coming back to the USA?

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by ray0414

Panasonic tvs are coming back to the USA?

That too?
_____

James Gunn is coming back to direct Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3?

[Robert Zohn]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Oppo is coming back?

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

3D is coming back in North America?

Sadly no on both. But I think you will be happy with tomorrow's breaking news.

I'm off to bed, very busy day today for me and tomorrow is another big day planned.

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by ray0414

I'm a late sleeper so no worries! The TV industry is gonna be awesome over the next couple of years with state of the art technology coming because of great competition!

Ray, do you think you can be seduced over to the Sony camp in the near future? Or still gonna hold out for a little somethin', somethin' showing up from Samsung later on?