HDR Discussion Thread

[bytor]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Still, you raising the point about the extra trim controls does bring to mind what happened with Cuaron's Roma, that when they delivered the Dolby Vision version to Netflix they also delivered a specifically graded SDR 709 version - apparently the first time this has happened - because Cuaron was not happy with how the downconverted SDR looked. One wonders if they only had v2.9 available while grading.

Interesting post about Roma. I don't understand how he spent so much time grading the Dolby Vision for it yet there is a visual error that affects the whole image in many instances throughout the film. One time stamp I remember it happening at is 1:17:45 but there are probably at least a dozen of these occurrences. Does anyone know what is going on with that?

[DisplayCalNoob]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Does everything have to be brought back though? I'm not saying this to be argumentative, I'm just aksing a question. Just because HDR can do it doesn't mean it should do it, and if someone grades a tail light to look blown out then I'm happy enough with that decision. I was reminded of a similar thing just now when reading back my comments about the disc in the TMNT UHD thread, that the tail lights which skewed to a hot pink in the SDR grade do exactly the same thing in the HDR grade. [edit] As much as I praise the naturalism that HDR imparts onto images - and I do it a lot - there's also room for more stylised, exaggerated visual interpretations that don't always conform to what the HVS can/will accommodate; this is still make believe after all, and not real life.

Still, you raising the point about the extra trim controls does bring to mind what happened with Cuaron's Roma, that when they delivered the Dolby Vision version to Netflix they also delivered a specifically graded SDR 709 version - apparently the first time this has happened - because Cuaron was not happy with how the downconverted SDR looked. One wonders if they only had v2.9 available while grading.

I can except that, when it concerns content that is fantasy, in the sense that it doesn't deal with real world scenarios. I think it's odd to see so much naturalism or realism in a film, only to have something as simple as tail lights over saturated with blown out detail.

This discussion reminds of the DVE calibration disc. One of the chapters, had a colorist discussing some of the issues that occur when trying to balance color, the raspberries versus the chicken on a plate. He had to sacrifice some hue or saturation, because any adjustments had a +/- effect.

I've noticed those hot pink tail lights before in other films. It's in one of the first Transformers films where Mark Wahlberg took over as friend to the Autobots. Also, a early spot in Fate of the Furious, a night scenes shows the tail lights on verge of going got pink.

Could it be crosstalk or the linear functionality of the mastering monitor?

[LordoftheRings]

▪ https://www-forbes-com.cdn.ampprojec.../?amp_js_v=0.1

[Penton-Man]

DV QA facility certification on the east coast…..
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300778266.html

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Agent Kay

Too much on topic stuff Penton, back to top gun

Where’s Waboman?
Off crutches yet?....Busy bidding on this? - https://www.raptoraviation.com/warbirds/1986-mig-29ub

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by bytor

Interesting post about Roma. I don't understand how he spent so much time grading the Dolby Vision for it yet there is a visual error that affects the whole image in many instances throughout the film. One time stamp I remember it happening at is 1:17:45 but there are probably at least a dozen of these occurrences. Does anyone know what is going on with that?

Haven’t seen Roma yet.
Please explain. Are you referring to noise? (note, if the filmmaker doesn’t have enough light and shoots a scene at a high ISO the HDR version with accentuate the noise unless mitigated afterwards in post)

[LordoftheRings]

▪https://www.redsharknews.com/product...-modes-and-hdr

Roma is . . . a winner.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

▪ https://www-forbes-com.cdn.ampprojec.../?amp_js_v=0.1

“Previous discussions I’ve had with industry experts have suggested that while fitting HDR10+ and Dolby Vision versions of films on single discs might be possible, doing so could potentially cause image quality issues due to disc space limitations.”

^ ? John’s another journo who reads Blu-ray.com for cutting edge information (past discussion between 2themax, Geoff and myself as documented several months ago on this thread)

Cool

[Waboman]

No desire to sit through Roma. But I will have her tomatoes with fresh mozzarella, basil and a drizzle of extra virgin olive oil. Now that is proper hdr grading.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

▪https://www.redsharknews.com/product...-modes-and-hdr

Roma is . . . a winner.

Bob, don’t have time to read ^ right now, back to dem salt mines for me.

[Waboman]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Where’s Waboman?
Off crutches yet?....Busy bidding on this? - https://www.raptoraviation.com/warbirds/1986-mig-29ub

Lol. I'm just hobbling around. Might be awhile before I get behind a warbird. Speaking of warbirds did you know White Castle now has sloppy joe's?

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob

Wish they would do the higher nit trim pass anyway.

The closer you are to the mastering nit level, the less trim pass adjustments you may need. For my demo reel we did trim passes for:

1. 100 nit SDR 709
2. 600 nit HDR 2020
3. 1000 nit HDR 2020
4. 2000 nit HDR 2020

Lots was done for 100 and 600. A little was done for 1000 and virtually nothing was done for 2000.

#1 needed the most work because not only are we going to 100 nits, but we are also going to 709. The red cactus in my real was a real PITA for the auto tone mapping in DV 2.9, which is what everything supports "today". I would have used 4.0 but the encoding tools don't support it yet.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

“Previous discussions I’ve had with industry experts have suggested that while fitting HDR10+ and Dolby Vision versions of films on single discs might be possible, doing so could potentially cause image quality issues due to disc space limitations.”

^ ? John’s another journo who reads Blu-ray.com for cutting edge information (past discussion between 2themax, Geoff and myself as documented several months ago on this thread)

Cool

I see Dolby Vision and HDR10+ for video what Dolby Atmos and DTS:X are for audio.
We don't need both on the same disc but we want both decoders in the chain.

* John needs/wants to get his info from the best industry insiders, including blu-ray.com, like this thread right here for example with some of the top industry insiders, including Penton-Man, Robert Z., Stacey, Dan, Salty, Kris, Geoff, ...and the other usual suspects.

[bytor]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Haven’t seen Roma yet.
Please explain. Are you referring to noise? (note, if the filmmaker doesn’t have enough light and shoots a scene at a high ISO the HDR version with accentuate the noise unless mitigated afterwards in post)

No this is a legitimate error where the whole image tints towards a more greenish/colorized look for a second or two and then goes back to black and white. If it was just one time it wouldn't be a huge deal but it happens throughout the film. I don't understand why more people haven't noticed this.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Bob, don’t have time to read ^ right now, back to dem salt mines for me.

There are excellent HDR links that were posted years ago in this thread; someday I will have the time to read few more. We take our time to enjoy the things we like doing, living the HDR life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkRK...ature=youtu.be

So many films so little time.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by bytor

No this is a legitimate error where the whole image tints towards a more greenish/colorized look for a second or two and then goes back to black and white. If it was just one time it wouldn't be a huge deal but it happens throughout the film. I don't understand why more people haven't noticed this.

Expert camera film knowledge.

* Did you notice that in other black & white films; The Artist, Logan, Mad Max: Fury Road?

[bytor]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Expert camera film knowledge.

* Did you notice that in other black & white films; The Artist, Logan, Mad Max: Fury Road?

No, I haven't seen this in any other black and white film. Or if I have it was only a single instance so not memorable. Someone on the AVS forum confirmed that it happens in HDR10 as well as Dolby Vision. I'm just curious what you HDR experts think it is.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Waboman

Lol. I'm just hobbling around. Might be awhile before I get behind a warbird. Speaking of warbirds did you know White Castle now has sloppy joe's?

Didn’t know that. I had a shrimp salad for lunch. My misguided colleague had a “hamberder”, but not at Burger King as they posted they were out of stock - https://twitter.com/BurgerKing/statu...13382192627717

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by bytor

No, I haven't seen this in any other black and white film. Or if I have it was only a single instance so not memorable. Someone on the AVS forum confirmed that it happens in HDR10 as well as Dolby Vision. I'm just curious what you HDR experts think it is.

I can’t give you a definitive answer. Alfonso is a well meaning fellow and he (or his rep) are quite active on the twitter, so you might want to query him directly….https://twitter.com/alfonsocuaron?re...Ctwgr%5Eauthor

[Waboman]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Didn’t know that. I had a shrimp salad for lunch. My misguided colleague had a “hamberder”, but not at Burger King as they posted they were out of stock - https://twitter.com/BurgerKing/statu...13382192627717

Have you ever been on a real shrimp boat?
No, but I've been on a real big boat.

A round of hamberders on the PM. When we go off topic we go all in.