HDR Discussion Thread

[Geoff D]

Do you still have your ZD9, Stacey?

[edit] I aks because I've viewed dozens of DV discs on the ZD9 thru the OPPO and cannot recall seeing any banding aside from a single instance of where it was just as obvious on the HDR10 layer and appeared to be baked in to the source, and in the same movie a bit later on the DV actually cleaned up a hint of banding in one scene. The same is true for the example of First Man that I gave upthread re: DV FEL improving compression, in that same liftoff shot there's also a hint of posterisation in HDR10 which the DV tidies up nicely.

Can't wait to get your disc and put this to the test...

[edit²] For what it's worth I've tried some of your 10-bit HDR10 banding tests (SMQATV4_HDR and Spears_Munsil_Quantization_Test_2160p) via the forced Dolby Vision on the OPPO and they look exactly the same as they do in HDR10: seamless, no banding whatsoever. Curiouser and curiouser! Could it be that the low latency mode doesn't play nice with certain TVs?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Staying Salty

I did witness this one day, as a Navy plane flew low and upside down over a destroyer.

could be worse, how’d you like if you were the enemy and this hog flew low and right side up over your head?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

....I worked with Dolby

some of the stuff in the grading/testing room:

one Pulsar
two PRM 4220’s
Omnitek XR scopes
advanced panel for Davinci Resolve, 64 core resolve box with 4 M6000 24 gb GPUs
RSSD 7101B NVMe RAID CARD for working folks
2 Clipsters
3 resolve test boxes
more than 1 consumer HDR tv

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

It is news ^ , it is recent, it is relevant, even if less so than Top Gun: Maverick.

nuf said by me, as i plan on keeping my phone off and in my pocket so as not to face the local consequences –

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

My family lived and breathed motorcycles growing up

Gemini Man (2019) - Official Trailer - Paramount Pictures - YouTube

[DisplayCalNoob]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

There is a fade up from black at the start of my HDR montage. In player-led, you see banding as it fades up. In TV-led, no banding in either FEL or MEL. This is on the LG C8 and C9 models. You will see banding in the montage, but it is all caused by the display you are viewing it on. Some titles have had a lot of dither applied to hide banding in displays. We did not do that.

MEL includes all of the L1 and L2 metadata. L1 is the per shot analysis info. L2 is the trim pass. FEL adds the residual picture information or the difference between the decoded BL and the original source material.

L2 includes lift, gain, gamma, chroma weight, saturation and tone detail. For v4, L8 has lift, gain, gamma, chroma weight, saturation, tone detail, mid contrast bias, highlight clipping, and secondary trims (saturation and hue for RGBCMY)

So FEL, gives you what the colorist, and cinematographer sees after the grade is finished on the Master monitor. A FEL capable display, would then use the metadata to tone map or not (1:1)to match the master monitor.

I can't wait for your disc, have you considered streaming support?

[ratedRron]

Question from a relative newb to the topic:

To my eyes HDR and HD(1080p) look very different not necessarily in resolution or fine detail, but rather in the colors being displayed.
HD looks dramatically different to HDR almost to the point no direct comparison is needed. It's quite striking actually. HDR colors appear much deeper, warmer and inkier whereas HD can appear washed out or bland by comparison even though it's not.
Since the difference is so dramatic this bring up a question I so far haven't been able to find an answer to:
Which one is "more" correct? They're so different they can't both be true to the filmaker's original intent, right?
Is HDR really just fancy EQ? I mean there's no way the colors on all our HD content is off and washed out unless dipped in this HDR magic?
I'm really confused by this... What gives?

Thanks in advance!

[LordoftheRings]

HDR has the potential to be closer to real life, more accurately rendered.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by ratedRron

Question from a relative newb to the topic:

To my eyes HDR and HD(1080p) look very different not necessarily in resolution or fine detail, but rather in the colors being displayed.
HD looks dramatically different to HDR almost to the point no direct comparison is needed. It's quite striking actually. HDR colors appear much deeper, warmer and inkier whereas HD can appear washed out or bland by comparison even though it's not.
Since the difference is so dramatic this bring up a question I so far haven't been able to find an answer to:
Which one is "more" correct? They're so different they can't both be true to the filmaker's original intent, right?
Is HDR really just fancy EQ? I mean there's no way the colors on all our HD content is off and washed out unless dipped in this HDR magic?
I'm really confused by this... What gives?

Thanks in advance!

From stuckincustoms.com concerning HDR photography techniques.

WHAT IS HDR PHOTOGRAPHY?
HDR is short for High Dynamic Range. It is a post-processing task of taking either one image or a series of images, combining them, and adjusting the contrast ratios to do things that are virtually impossible with a single aperture and shutter speed.

An HDR image is commonly made by taking three photos of the same scene, each at different shutter speeds. The result is a bright, medium, and dark photo, based on the amount of light that got through the lens. A software process then combines all the photos to bring details to the shadows and highlights both. This helps to achieve the same task in the final photograph that the human eye can accomplish on the scene.

[DisplayCalNoob]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

I am curious which UHD BD players people own. The reason I ask is we have tested several and only one brand (Samsung) fails to play the upcoming disc. Seems to be a player bug as we have also passed both the Panasonic and Eclipse verifiers.

Player list is attached.

I have a LG UP970 with DV support.

[DanBa]

A format war in the non-traditional sense
https://twitter.com/BigJohnnyArcher/...97245525733376
https://twitter.com/_MichaelZink
https://twitter.com/BigJohnnyArcher





Luckier than Americans, Europeans among others have the possibility of buying TVs of Panasonic or Philips TPV which are compatible with all current commercially available HDR formats.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-h...l#post57858010
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-h...l#post57619832
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-h...l#post57479390
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-h...l#post57457894

Panasonic OLED TVs were the winners of the last two HDTVTest (2017 / 2018) TV shootouts organised by Vincent Teoh.
https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1531741051
https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1502773165

[Geoff D]

Whoever that Zink fella is, I totally agree with him https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...r#post14297345 and I do wish Big John would stop using such clickbaity language but, hey, he's a journo and that's what journo's gotta do: it's all about them headlines yo

In other news, I seem to have been dvdmike'd by Stacey. Oh well.

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Do you still have your ZD9, Stacey?

[edit] I aks because I've viewed dozens of DV discs on the ZD9 thru the OPPO and cannot recall seeing any banding aside from a single instance of where it was just as obvious on the HDR10 layer and appeared to be baked in to the source, and in the same movie a bit later on the DV actually cleaned up a hint of banding in one scene. The same is true for the example of First Man that I gave upthread re: DV FEL improving compression, in that same liftoff shot there's also a hint of posterisation in HDR10 which the DV tidies up nicely.

Can't wait to get your disc and put this to the test...

[edit²] For what it's worth I've tried some of your 10-bit HDR10 banding tests (SMQATV4_HDR and Spears_Munsil_Quantization_Test_2160p) via the forced Dolby Vision on the OPPO and they look exactly the same as they do in HDR10: seamless, no banding whatsoever. Curiouser and curiouser! Could it be that the low latency mode doesn't play nice with certain TVs?

Fair point, the banding difference between TV and player-led is on an OLED display. The Z9D does not show banding in the fade-up like OLED (Sony, LG or Panasonic) does. Now I have not seen the new Panasonic that supports DV yet. This is with the smoothing feature disabled on the Z9D. Though, this was for HDR on the Z9D. I recall one of my tests showing banding in SDR.

The banding test on the disc is now laid out as Cb, Y Cr with 8-bit on the top and 10-bit on the bottom. No dither patch on this version.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Whoever that Zink fella is,

chair of the board of the uhd alliance

past history - voting member(director) representing technicolor during the BDA meetings for the development of ultra hd blu-ray

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

"Business considerations"

where there’s a will, there’s a way - https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/be...eater-1203843?

[avs commenter]

I find it funny that HDR10+ is already considered a premium HDR format.

[Penton-Man]

LordoftheRings - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...0#post16262453

we’re slowing down a bit….by my cursory count 71,000 views for the past 21 days. stacey and others are doing their part, whereas you’re slacking with few youtube videos

we needs our tunes!

[DisplayCalNoob]

Originally Posted by avs commenter

I find it funny that HDR10+ is already considered a premium HDR format.

As if dynamic metadata is all you need.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

LordoftheRings - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...0#post16262453

we’re slowing down a bit….by my cursory count 71,000 views for the past 21 days. stacey and others are doing their part, whereas you’re slacking with few youtube videos

we needs our tunes!

It's a good stretch right now, regardless of the average number of views.
71,000 views in 21 days still is a very good average; we are all still learning.
In space no one can see you fear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjfR...ature=youtu.be

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by avs commenter

I find it funny that HDR10+ is already considered a premium HDR format.

my long held opinion (with documentation) has been - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post16216098